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Weathering hopper interiors
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Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
The picture referenced below may be one of the best photos I've ever
seen to answer the oft asked question: "how do I weather the inside of a hopper?" There appear to be three distinct cases shown here: 1 - the visible corner of the nearest hopper is still in near-fresh paint (PRR freight car color). Obviously this car has been out of the shops for just a short time. 2 - The car next to it (741459) is thoroughly rusted inside from abrasion and weather but shows no sign of coal. 3 - The two cars on the next track appear to have been most recently used in coal service and are covered inside and out with coal dust - they are black despite having been painted in PRR Freight car color. The cars are parked under one of the Huletts (sp?) used to unload ore carriers on the Great Lakes. So the coal hoppers must have recently changed use. regards, Andy Miller ________________________________ From: STMFPH@... [mailto:STMFPH@...] Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:23 PM To: STMFPH@... Subject: [STMFPH] New file uploaded to STMFPH Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFPH group. File : /Pensy Hoppers colorshot.jpg Uploaded by : don_worthy <don_worthy@...> Description : PRR cars with wide range of color You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/Pensy%20Hoppers%20colorshot. jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, don_worthy <don_worthy@...> ________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "STMFPH <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFPH-unsubscribe@... <mailto:STMFPH-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . ________________________________
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Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
Andy,
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What photo? I've noticed that "empty" coal hoppers almost always have some residual load left in the pockets and finer coal on the lower slope sheets. These are modern rotary-dumped cars with the pockets sealed I see on the former CSX from the infamous Beta Bridge near UVA as I go to work, but I suspect that cars with working pocket doors aren't/weren't much different. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff Miller, Andrew S. wrote:
The picture referenced below may be one of the best photos I've ever
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Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
Scroll down to the attached email. There is a URL to the jpeg.
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regards, Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Garth Groff Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 9:38 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Weathering hopper interiors Andy, What photo? I've noticed that "empty" coal hoppers almost always have some residual load left in the pockets and finer coal on the lower slope sheets. These are modern rotary-dumped cars with the pockets sealed I see on the former CSX from the infamous Beta Bridge near UVA as I go to work, but I suspect that cars with working pocket doors aren't/weren't much different. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff Miller, Andrew S. wrote: The picture referenced below may be one of the best photos I've ever. jpg Yahoo! Groups Links
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ljack70117@...
This is a corrected URL the other one did not work. Thank you Larry Jackman ljack70117@...
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Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
Thanx Larry. Yup, that's the picture. I don't know why you had
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trouble with the other URL. Obviously it worked for me. regards, Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of ljack70117@... Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 10:11 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Weathering hopper interiors http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/Pensy%20Hoppers%20colorshot. jpg This is a corrected URL the other one did not work. Thank you Larry Jackman ljack70117@...
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Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@m...> wrote:
The cars are parked under one of the Huletts (sp?) used to unload ore I was under the impression that hoppers were used for ore from the lower lakes ports; coal coal came north from the coalfields to the coal docks for shipment west on empty ore boats, the empty hoppers then went to the ore dock and carried ore back south to Pitsburgh and Wheeling. Dedicated ore cars weren't common in the lower lakes region until the market for eastern coal collapsed in the sixties and seventies. When carrying ore, a little heap in the pockest loaded the car to capacity, so in photos loaded ore trains look like trains of empty cars. Dennis Storzek
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Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
Dennis,
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What you say makes sense. It keeps the hoppers loaded in most of both directions. But how do you account for the varied weathering patterns on the cars (other than the recently shopped, clean car in the foreground)? My club has recently bought several hundred of the new Accurail 70t hoppers and uses them in booth coal and iron ore service. The cars are marked with an iron ore limit line. regards, Andy Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 10:22 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Weathering hopper interiors --- In STMFC@..., "Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@m...> wrote: The cars are parked under one of the Huletts (sp?) used to unload ore I was under the impression that hoppers were used for ore from the lower lakes ports; coal coal came north from the coalfields to the coal docks for shipment west on empty ore boats, the empty hoppers then went to the ore dock and carried ore back south to Pitsburgh and Wheeling. Dedicated ore cars weren't common in the lower lakes region until the market for eastern coal collapsed in the sixties and seventies. When carrying ore, a little heap in the pockest loaded the car to capacity, so in photos loaded ore trains look like trains of empty cars. Dennis Storzek Yahoo! Groups Links
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Tony Thompson
Andy Miller wrote:
The picture referenced below may be one of the best photos I've everI have no argument with this description of the photo. But I'd add that hoppers in regular use can show slope sheets pretty much looking like polished iron, while corners, interior side sheets and pockets are black with coal dust. I used to see this often when I worked at Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh, because the B&O track through what is called Panther Hollow, behind campus, is well below the level of the campus and one can look down into entire trains of passing cars. You would see the three types of appearance Andy mentions, though I can't remember very many cars with much rust; the cars seen, when empty, were likely quite recently emptied and thus recently exposed to the abrasion of sliding coal. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Scott Pitzer
One of the C&O all-color books shows a few 70-ton three-bay ribbed coal hoppers of the early 1950s with "low" loads of iron ore (it's a high-angle shot.) I believe it was taken somewhere around Ashland KY.
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Scott Pitzer
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...> Sent: Dec 9, 2005 7:21 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Weathering hopper interiors --- In STMFC@..., "Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@m...> wrote: The cars are parked under one of the Huletts (sp?) used to unload ore I was under the impression that hoppers were used for ore from the lower lakes ports; coal coal came north from the coalfields to the coal docks for shipment west on empty ore boats, the empty hoppers then went to the ore dock and carried ore back south to Pitsburgh and Wheeling. Dedicated ore cars weren't common in the lower lakes region until the market for eastern coal collapsed in the sixties and seventies. When carrying ore, a little heap in the pockest loaded the car to capacity, so in photos loaded ore trains look like trains of empty cars. Dennis Storzek Yahoo! Groups Links
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Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@m...> wrote:
I can't give you a definite answer, but will hazard a guess. Obviously, if the car still has fresh paint on the interior, it just hasn't had time to wear off. The paint would wear off from the lower parts of the sheets first, since more material would be sliding past the lower portions than higher up, so with time the wear would move progressively upward. As for the rusty car, consider this; the Pennsy carried considerably more coal than iron ore, so it is possible that some of those cars carried loads to points other than to the lake ports, and so had long empty trips back. In addition, as business activity rose and fell, some cars would go into storage for extended periods of time, long enough to get rusty. Once back in regular service, it would take a couple of loads to wear the rust out. Back in the days of "loose car" railroading, each car has to be considered as a separate case; it could have a totally different movement history than the cars on each side of it.
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rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
I didn't have the chance to look into empty hoppers until the late
60s, but many cars from that era interiors were unpainted. Up here in the frozen tundra the coal (contents) freezes in the cars. Removal is buy whatever means is available. Sometimes torches are places against the hoppers to thaw the coal (contents). At a mininum this burns the paint off the hoppers leaving them with grayish, yellowish, orangeish colored hoppers. I was told it once took 4 men 6 days to unload a car of iron ore. Clark Propst Mason City Iowa
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