Weathering hopper interiors


Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

The picture referenced below may be one of the best photos I've ever
seen to answer the oft asked question: "how do I weather the inside of
a hopper?"

There appear to be three distinct cases shown here:
1 - the visible corner of the nearest hopper is still in near-fresh
paint (PRR freight car color). Obviously this car has been out of the
shops for just a short time.
2 - The car next to it (741459) is thoroughly rusted inside from
abrasion and weather but shows no sign of coal.
3 - The two cars on the next track appear to have been most recently
used in coal service and are covered inside and out with coal dust -
they are black despite having been painted in PRR Freight car color.


The cars are parked under one of the Huletts (sp?) used to unload ore
carriers on the Great Lakes. So the coal hoppers must have recently
changed use.

regards,

Andy Miller



________________________________

From: STMFPH@... [mailto:STMFPH@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:23 PM
To: STMFPH@...
Subject: [STMFPH] New file uploaded to STMFPH



Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFPH
group.

File : /Pensy Hoppers colorshot.jpg
Uploaded by : don_worthy <don_worthy@...>
Description : PRR cars with wide range of color

You can access this file at the URL:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/Pensy%20Hoppers%20colorshot.
jpg

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Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Andy,

What photo?

I've noticed that "empty" coal hoppers almost always have some residual load left in the pockets and finer coal on the lower slope sheets. These are modern rotary-dumped cars with the pockets sealed I see on the former CSX from the infamous Beta Bridge near UVA as I go to work, but I suspect that cars with working pocket doors aren't/weren't much different.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Miller, Andrew S. wrote:

The picture referenced below may be one of the best photos I've ever
seen to answer the oft asked question: "how do I weather the inside of
a hopper?"
There appear to be three distinct cases shown here:
1 - the visible corner of the nearest hopper is still in near-fresh
paint (PRR freight car color). Obviously this car has been out of the
shops for just a short time.
2 - The car next to it (741459) is thoroughly rusted inside from
abrasion and weather but shows no sign of coal.
3 - The two cars on the next track appear to have been most recently
used in coal service and are covered inside and out with coal dust -
they are black despite having been painted in PRR Freight car color.
The cars are parked under one of the Huletts (sp?) used to unload ore
carriers on the Great Lakes. So the coal hoppers must have recently
changed use.
regards,
Andy Miller


________________________________

From: STMFPH@... [mailto:STMFPH@...] Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:23 PM
To: STMFPH@...
Subject: [STMFPH] New file uploaded to STMFPH



Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFPH group.

File : /Pensy Hoppers colorshot.jpg Uploaded by : don_worthy <don_worthy@...> Description : PRR cars with wide range of color
You can access this file at the URL:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/Pensy%20Hoppers%20colorshot.
jpg
To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

don_worthy <don_worthy@...>








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________________________________









Yahoo! Groups Links






Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Scroll down to the attached email. There is a URL to the jpeg.


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Garth Groff
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 9:38 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Weathering hopper interiors

Andy,

What photo?

I've noticed that "empty" coal hoppers almost always have some residual

load left in the pockets and finer coal on the lower slope sheets.
These
are modern rotary-dumped cars with the pockets sealed I see on the
former CSX from the infamous Beta Bridge near UVA as I go to work, but
I
suspect that cars with working pocket doors aren't/weren't much
different.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Miller, Andrew S. wrote:

The picture referenced below may be one of the best photos I've ever
seen to answer the oft asked question: "how do I weather the inside of
a hopper?"

There appear to be three distinct cases shown here:
1 - the visible corner of the nearest hopper is still in near-fresh
paint (PRR freight car color). Obviously this car has been out of the
shops for just a short time.
2 - The car next to it (741459) is thoroughly rusted inside from
abrasion and weather but shows no sign of coal.
3 - The two cars on the next track appear to have been most recently
used in coal service and are covered inside and out with coal dust -
they are black despite having been painted in PRR Freight car color.


The cars are parked under one of the Huletts (sp?) used to unload ore
carriers on the Great Lakes. So the coal hoppers must have recently
changed use.

regards,

Andy Miller



________________________________

From: STMFPH@... [mailto:STMFPH@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:23 PM
To: STMFPH@...
Subject: [STMFPH] New file uploaded to STMFPH



Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFPH
group.

File : /Pensy Hoppers colorshot.jpg
Uploaded by : don_worthy <don_worthy@...>
Description : PRR cars with wide range of color

You can access this file at the URL:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/Pensy%20Hoppers%20colorshot
.
jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

don_worthy <don_worthy@...>








________________________________

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "STMFPH
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFPH-unsubscribe@...
<mailto:STMFPH-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe>

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Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Yahoo! Groups Links


ljack70117@...
 


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/Pensy%20Hoppers% 20colorshot.jpg
This is a corrected URL the other one did not work.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...


Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Thanx Larry. Yup, that's the picture. I don't know why you had
trouble with the other URL. Obviously it worked for me.


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
ljack70117@...
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 10:11 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Weathering hopper interiors


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/Pensy%20Hoppers%20colorshot.
jpg

This is a corrected URL the other one did not work.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...


Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@m...> wrote:

The cars are parked under one of the Huletts (sp?) used to unload ore
carriers on the Great Lakes. So the coal hoppers must have recently
changed use.

regards,

Andy Miller

I was under the impression that hoppers were used for ore from the
lower lakes ports; coal coal came north from the coalfields to the
coal docks for shipment west on empty ore boats, the empty hoppers
then went to the ore dock and carried ore back south to Pitsburgh and
Wheeling. Dedicated ore cars weren't common in the lower lakes region
until the market for eastern coal collapsed in the sixties and
seventies. When carrying ore, a little heap in the pockest loaded the
car to capacity, so in photos loaded ore trains look like trains of
empty cars.

Dennis Storzek


Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Dennis,

What you say makes sense. It keeps the hoppers loaded in most of both
directions. But how do you account for the varied weathering patterns
on the cars (other than the recently shopped, clean car in the
foreground)?

My club has recently bought several hundred of the new Accurail 70t
hoppers and uses them in booth coal and iron ore service. The cars are
marked with an iron ore limit line.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Dennis Storzek
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 10:22 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Weathering hopper interiors

--- In STMFC@..., "Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@m...>
wrote:

The cars are parked under one of the Huletts (sp?) used to unload ore
carriers on the Great Lakes. So the coal hoppers must have recently
changed use.

regards,

Andy Miller

I was under the impression that hoppers were used for ore from the
lower lakes ports; coal coal came north from the coalfields to the
coal docks for shipment west on empty ore boats, the empty hoppers
then went to the ore dock and carried ore back south to Pitsburgh and
Wheeling. Dedicated ore cars weren't common in the lower lakes region
until the market for eastern coal collapsed in the sixties and
seventies. When carrying ore, a little heap in the pockest loaded the
car to capacity, so in photos loaded ore trains look like trains of
empty cars.

Dennis Storzek









Yahoo! Groups Links


Tony Thompson
 

Andy Miller wrote:
The picture referenced below may be one of the best photos I've ever
seen to answer the oft asked question: "how do I weather the inside of
a hopper?"

There appear to be three distinct cases shown here:
1 - the visible corner of the nearest hopper is still in near-fresh
paint (PRR freight car color). Obviously this car has been out of the
shops for just a short time.
2 - The car next to it (741459) is thoroughly rusted inside from
abrasion and weather but shows no sign of coal.
3 - The two cars on the next track appear to have been most recently
used in coal service and are covered inside and out with coal dust -
they are black despite having been painted in PRR Freight car color.
I have no argument with this description of the photo. But I'd add that hoppers in regular use can show slope sheets pretty much looking like polished iron, while corners, interior side sheets and pockets are black with coal dust. I used to see this often when I worked at Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh, because the B&O track through what is called Panther Hollow, behind campus, is well below the level of the campus and one can look down into entire trains of passing cars. You would see the three types of appearance Andy mentions, though I can't remember very many cars with much rust; the cars seen, when empty, were likely quite recently emptied and thus recently exposed to the abrasion of sliding coal.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Scott Pitzer
 

One of the C&O all-color books shows a few 70-ton three-bay ribbed coal hoppers of the early 1950s with "low" loads of iron ore (it's a high-angle shot.) I believe it was taken somewhere around Ashland KY.
Scott Pitzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
Sent: Dec 9, 2005 7:21 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Weathering hopper interiors

--- In STMFC@..., "Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@m...> wrote:

The cars are parked under one of the Huletts (sp?) used to unload ore
carriers on the Great Lakes. So the coal hoppers must have recently
changed use.

regards,

Andy Miller

I was under the impression that hoppers were used for ore from the
lower lakes ports; coal coal came north from the coalfields to the
coal docks for shipment west on empty ore boats, the empty hoppers
then went to the ore dock and carried ore back south to Pitsburgh and
Wheeling. Dedicated ore cars weren't common in the lower lakes region
until the market for eastern coal collapsed in the sixties and
seventies. When carrying ore, a little heap in the pockest loaded the
car to capacity, so in photos loaded ore trains look like trains of
empty cars.

Dennis Storzek








Yahoo! Groups Links


Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@m...> wrote:

Dennis,

What you say makes sense. It keeps the hoppers loaded in most of both
directions. But how do you account for the varied weathering patterns
on the cars (other than the recently shopped, clean car in the
foreground)?
I can't give you a definite answer, but will hazard a guess.
Obviously, if the car still has fresh paint on the interior, it just
hasn't had time to wear off. The paint would wear off from the lower
parts of the sheets first, since more material would be sliding past
the lower portions than higher up, so with time the wear would move
progressively upward. As for the rusty car, consider this; the Pennsy
carried considerably more coal than iron ore, so it is possible that
some of those cars carried loads to points other than to the lake
ports, and so had long empty trips back. In addition, as business
activity rose and fell, some cars would go into storage for extended
periods of time, long enough to get rusty. Once back in regular
service, it would take a couple of loads to wear the rust out. Back in
the days of "loose car" railroading, each car has to be considered as
a separate case; it could have a totally different movement history
than the cars on each side of it.


rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

I didn't have the chance to look into empty hoppers until the late
60s, but many cars from that era interiors were unpainted.

Up here in the frozen tundra the coal (contents) freezes in the
cars. Removal is buy whatever means is available. Sometimes torches
are places against the hoppers to thaw the coal (contents). At a
mininum this burns the paint off the hoppers leaving them with
grayish, yellowish, orangeish colored hoppers.

I was told it once took 4 men 6 days to unload a car of iron ore.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa