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model magazines
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ed_mines
Charlie Tapper's e-mail reminds me that I have an unusual interest in
reading the publishing stats for magazines. I was a little surprised to find that both major magazines (MR & RMC) have very large subscriber bases - I guess a lot of peole think like me - why visit a hobby shop every month or why pay full price? I pay less than $2.50 an issue. My local hobby shop - Trainland in Lynbrook - stocks very few magazines or tools and no "craft kits". At the next closest shop the guy is always trying to sell me something I don't want - like Westerfield kits from 10 years ago - and when he carried a line I wanted - Branchline - he argued with me - "Branchline never had a 40 ft. box car kit....". A long time ago I placed a Walthers order with him. I got most of the order, but never an accounting or refund for items "out of stock". Lets face it, no hobby shop can stock everything and one that stocks what members of this group buy better have a lot of customers or some mail order customers. The smaller shops used to be able to order ones and twos from Walthers. Another interesting fact - "Mainline Modeler" sells less than 10,000 issues a month. From the tone of the editorials I think Bob Hundman is getting ready to pack it in. The magazine is loosing money and Hundman wants to retire. I think RMJ is loosing steam too. Are these small magazines dying? Ed
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Schuyler Larrabee
Behalf Of ed_minesI regularly patronize a shop I haven't been to for probably ten years. We correspond by email, boxes appear in the mail, and checks pay the bills. I just got ONE bottle of MicroMask, and four packages of NWSL springs, ordered from the big W. "No problem," according to the dealer. Another interesting fact - "Mainline Modeler" sells less thanYeah, I've been wondering too. I know Mr Hundman wants to sell the magazine, but also wants to keep his hand in. I doubt many people would be interested in that setup, having the founder hanging around, unless it really got to be an arms-length deal. And the recent wondering about where people's issues of RMJ make me wonder. But we're pretty much off topic, Ed. SGL
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eabracher@...
In a message dated 12/21/05 10:18:25 AM, thompsonmarytony@...
writes: Whether it's the natural constituency of thebob only can publish what he gets. If you want other STUFF, submit it. eric
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ed_mines
--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@v...> wrote: But we're pretty much off topic, Ed. Over the years Mainline Modeler has provided many freight car articles. If it goes down the tubes we (steam era freight car modelers) loose a good source of information. RMJ also had a lot of freight car articles. Maybe it's wishful thinking but a new publisher might move those magazines more in the direction of freight car modeling. I don't know about printing costs, but a novel idea might be to reprint all the freight car articles from the society magazines and online magazines. I don't know if there would be an adequate subscriber base and a few potential subscribers might balk at a magazine with a lot of repeated material. There are always new men entering the model railroad business. Here's an opportunity to buy into the business without learning everything about publishing. I can't recall ever seeing a post about the "Narrow Gauge and Shortline" magazine in this forum. Does it stil lexist? Is there anything in it relevant to the models we usually discuss in this group? Another topic Schuyler brought up he has a regular mail order dealer who specializes in steam era freight cars. I hope that's the wave of the future. I'd like to buy parts from different manufacturers from one source. I've bought car kits from announcements in this forum 4 or 5 times. Ed
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Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
Ed,
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Yes, NARROW GAUGE AND SHORTLINE GAZETTE is still going strong. There are great techniques found here that are applicable to steam-era freight cars, as well as scenery, structures, etc., but the thrust of the magazine has always been narrow gauge, or shortlines so like narrow gauge they might as well have been. I don't think Mike would appreciate a further discussion of NG&SLG here, since it is out of this group's mandate. That said, I will close by adding that I've been a subscriber since the first issue, and treasure every one of them. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff ed_mines wrote (in part):
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Tony Thompson
Ed Mines asks an interesting question:
I can't recall ever seeing a post about the "Narrow Gauge andThe "Gazette" has long been a leader in new modeling techniques, and in fact now trumpets that fact on its cover, as perhaps its greatest appeal to those who don't model NG or shortline railroads (as Richard Hendrickson says, the implied adjective for shortlines covered is "quaint" or "moldy," modern or successful ones need not apply). As many on this list will know, Bob Hundman deliberately named his magazine, when it started, as "Mainline Modeler" to contrast with the Gazette while hopefully still providing the same advanced techniques and ideas. I'd say the Gazette is no more relevant than ever, and perhaps less; in recent years I haven't seen the pathbreaking techniques that once peppered its pages. I'd be interested if others on the list have a different view. My own interest in quaint, rundown and failing railroads of any gauge is minimal, so I rarely buy a Gazette issue at a hobby shop--though I often look through the current one to see what's up. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Tony Thompson
I think one thing that may be hurting all the commercial magazines is the growth and success of the railroad historical societies, many of which produce their own excellent magazines (and note the superb on-line modeling issues of TKM recently discussed here). Many modelers have major soft spots for certain railroads, and a historical society can really scratch that itch in a way that no "mainstream" publication can do. I believe the same thing is part of the reason for the steady decline of the NMRA and its national convention: both historical society conventions, and our own "Freight Car Nationals" at Naperville and Cocoa Beach, are much more productive and enjoyable for many of us.
That still leaves room, I'd say, for a "national magazine" of some kind. I suppose it's natural that it may end up as the "least common denominator," which is MR today. I personally think MR overdoes its "obligation to newcomers," but its overall balance and glossiness puts it in a strong position for the majority of modelers, however much many on this list may decry its bare minimum of prototype information in many articles. I'd hope that RMC, often willing to include far more prototype information in articles, can survive alongside MR and provide many of us with better material. Freight cars are inevitably only one component of any modeling or historical society magazine. I would doubt if a magazine aimed solely at freight cars (or passenger cars, or steam locomotives, etc.) would be viable. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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losgatos48@...
Tony:
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I for one believe the Gazette is still very relevant in the hobby today. It has maintained a loyal following with a stable circulation rate which more than you can say about the Mainline Modeler. There are still a number of very useful techniques in the pages of the magazine. Lane Stewart, for one, continues to provide interesting techniques and approaches to modeling for those who are interested in reading his articles. The magazine has maintained a consitent quality and content since its inception. Bob Brown, the editor, has maintained an editorial direction and standard for matieral better than any of the model magazines. Moldy/funky standard gauge may be one of its editorial objectives but 99% of the material is still narrow gauge. Bob has featured a lot of Sierra Railway and V&T over the years. He will run standard gauge material from time to time. As a way of a disclaimer, I have been associated with the Gazette since day one. I admire the magazine and enjoy each issue even if I don't relate to the content in my own modeling projects. Gene Deimling Los Gatos, CA
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From: Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@...> Ed Mines asks an interesting question:I can't recall ever seeing a post about the "Narrow Gauge andThe "Gazette" has long been a leader in new modeling techniques,
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Mark Heiden
Before Mike rules this off-topic, there's a Walthers story that I
quickly want to share. I worked in train store for about a year, and we used to have problems getting items from Walthers regardless of quantity ordered. Sometimes they would send a memo explaining why such and such an item was unavailable. My favorite involved a shipment that was tied up in an ownership dispute in international maritime court. It seems they were expecting a large shipment from Japan or China that was to arrive via a container ship. Somewhere in the Pacific Ocean the crew of this ship took to the lifeboats, but remained alongside the ship. The crew of a salvage tug that was lurking nearby took advantage of the situation to board the ship and claim it as their own. Because the rightful crew remained alongside the ship, the owners challenged the salvage claim and the case went to court. Unfortunately, I never did find out how this one ended, but I'm sure it would have been interesting. I don't think we ever did recieve what we had ordered. Mark Heiden --- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote: some mail order customers. The smaller shops used to be able to orderones and twos from Walthers.
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Tony Thompson
Gene Deimling wrote:
I for one believe the Gazette is still very relevant in the hobby today . . . Lane Stewart, for one, continues to provide interesting techniques and approaches to modeling for those who are interested in reading his articles. The magazine has maintained a consitent quality and content since its inception. Bob Brown, the editor, has maintained an editorial direction and standard for matieral better than any of the model magazines.I am an admirer of Lane Stewart, and it's certainly true that Bob Brown has done and still does a superb job in quality of the magazine. No one, not even MR with all its resources, does better. Moldy/funky standard gauge may be one of its editorial objectives but 99% of the material is still narrow gauge.I have no specific objection to narrow gauge per se, but I have to say that article after article in the NG&SL Gazette continues to single out funky and moldy and rundown aspects of the narrow gauge as well as short lines. Whether it's the natural constituency of the magazine, or Brown's preference, I don't know, but it is sure obvious in issue after issue. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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jerryglow2
I know a couple small manufacturers who are suppliers to and listed
with Walthers. Often their products will be listed as "out of stock" or "backordered" when they're sitting on the mfg's shelf. Walthers simply had not placed an order to keep them in stock. Jerry Glow --- In STMFC@..., "Mark Heiden" <mark_heiden@h...> wrote: problems getting items from Walthers regardless of quantity ordered.Sometimes they would send a memo explaining why such and such an item was
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losgatos48@...
Tony:
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I agree with your statement about the tone or direction of the material. It is the nexus of narrow gauge modelers to model rundown and funky stuff. Standard gauge freight car modelers who follow mainline railroads won't relate to the subject matter per sec. However, I find that the articles often times contain little pearls of wisdom (techniques) that give me ideas on my standard gauge freight car model (required content). Gene Deimling
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From: Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@...> Gene Deimling wrote:I for one believe the Gazette is still very relevant in the hobbyI am an admirer of Lane Stewart, and it's certainly true that
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Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
List,
I think a lot of good expanations of the state of the modeling magazines have been aired here, but one thing has not - even the largest magazine "Model Railroader" is to a great extent dependent on its readership for contributions, and it is my opinion that the internet has had a greater effect on contributions than on subscriptions. That, coupled with the number of speciality magazines now published, make for a paucity of good material on freight car modeling in individual issues. I am in N scale, and most of the freight car construction articles in that scale appear in "N Scale Railroading" published by Kirk Reddie, or "N-Scale", published by Bob Hundman. I just got NSR today, and there is an article on building a 1950's era CofGa chip hopper, for example. Others are describing their "how to's" on various internet forums, not bothering to submit articles for the print media. That's where I learned to make my own decals. Gregg Mahlkov Florida's Forgotten Coast
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Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
Friends,
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As a former contributor to NG&SLG, I applaud Bob as an editor. He has high standards (as I found out to my chagrin with my first submission). Bob eventually bought six articles from me over a couple of years, all on prototype subjects and was superb to work with. OTOH, about the same time I wrote an article for one of the "National" magazine (as it used to be unofficially called). They paid me promptly for it, and then never ran the material or even incorporated my research into one of their columns. End of story, as far as submissions to the "National" magazine go. Why waste my time? By the way, although I mostly do HO standard gauge, I have a soft spot in my heart (or head) for narrow gauge. I still dabble in 0n30, English prototype. Once you've seen and ridden behind a boy-sized quarry Hunslet or Bagnall, you will be hooked. And no filthy grunge either (though they might once have had it). Those locomotives are polished and painted like a circus wagon. Theys will charm your socks off. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff eabracher@... wrote:
In a message dated 12/21/05 10:18:25 AM, thompsonmarytony@... writes:
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Tony Thompson
Garth Groff wrote:
OTOH, about the same time I wrote an article for one of the "National"Welcome to the club, Garth. There are plenty of us out here with manuscripts safely moldering away in Waukesha. In military terminology, it's called a "pre-emptive strike." Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@s...>
wrote: Welcome to the club, Garth. There are plenty of us out here with manuscripts safely moldering away in Waukesha. In military terminology, it's called a "pre-emptive strike." Tony, Maybe they left all those manuscripts in their former headquarters building when they relocated from downtown Milwaukee. :-) Bob Witt, Indianapolis, Indiana
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Tony Thompson
Bob Witt wrote:
Maybe they left all those manuscripts in their former headquartersInteresting point, Bob, but I don't see the practical difference <g>. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Richard Hendrickson
On Dec 21, 2005, at 12:18 PM, Garth Groff wrote:
OTOH, about the same time I wrote an article for one of the "National"That's an experience a number of us have had. The magazine in question had a reputation for buying stuff to file away so their competitors wouldn't get it. Occasionally, they would actually get around to using it – often when the information had grown more or less obsolete. Then when they did use it, they would re-write it extensively so that it reflected their editorial "slant," which was often way out of synch with the writer's intentions. Having the luxury of a large editing staff is not necessarily a virtue. Richard Hendrickson
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armprem
I tried to resist getting into this discussion,but my subscription to the
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"monthly Walther's catalogue " is about to run out and will not be renewed.If advertising sells magazine so be it.I however plan not to underwrite it.If a publication no longer meets my needs I can refer to my collection of back issues.I can always pick up single issues if the contents are of interest.I think,for the most part, and almost without exception,today's magazines are only a shadow of what they once were.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] model magazines On Dec 21, 2005, at 12:18 PM, Garth Groff wrote: OTOH, about the same time I wrote an article for one of the "National"That's an experience a number of us have had. The magazine in question had a reputation for buying stuff to file away so their competitors wouldn't get it. Occasionally, they would actually get around to using it � often when the information had grown more or less obsolete. Then when they did use it, they would re-write it extensively so that it reflected their editorial "slant," which was often way out of synch with the writer's intentions. Having the luxury of a large editing staff is not necessarily a virtue. Richard Hendrickson Yahoo! Groups Links
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cvsne <mjmcguirk@...>
Tony and all:
I am an admirer of Lane Stewart, and it's certainly true thatthe magazine. No one, not even MR with all its resources, doesbetter. I agree -- I love Lane's stuff, and Joe Crea's as well although I don't want to model that way myself. (that said, I like Malcolm's stuff for it's folk-artsy bizzare quality -- but, no, it's not the first thing I'd point to if someone asked me to show them what a detailed freight car looked like. Narrow gauge modelers were really, in many ways, the first prototype modelers, and the best way to learn how a wood car was built is to build a PBL or San Juan DRGW box or gondola kit. continues to single out funky and moldy and rundown aspects of thenarrow gauge as well as short lines. Whether it's the natural constituency ofthe magazine, or Brown's preference,One of the only negative comments I've ever heard about the Gazette (and I admire Bob as a friend and modeler) is the way the magazine ignores, or seems to ignore, even to the point of denying it existed, Colorado narrow gauge. Maybe Bob figures he covered a lot of Rio Grande in the early days of the magazine, and doesn't have to now. Personally I'd rather see a detailed look at Rio Grande rolling stock, or operations on Marshall Pass, than another funky little 22" line that was used to deliver mud to a dam site. Marty McGuirk
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