Topics

C&O Auto Box car


Don Worthy
 

Guys do any of you know of a photo of a C&O 40' auto-box car that I
could look at?
I'm building a F&C kit for a friend but, I do not know any thing about
the C&O painting and lettering for these cars. He wants it numbered
44357 and has just sent a Champ decal set. Champs information has
several different color schemes.

Would this car have black ends, doors and roof?

Can someone help?

Also, does anyone know of a source for HO scale waybills? I've seen
several models with this detail added. What information would it have?

Thanks for any help
Don W


Tony Thompson
 

Don Worthy wrote:
Also, does anyone know of a source for HO scale waybills? I've seen
several models with this detail added. What information would it have?
Probably you mean placards or route cards, not waybills (they traveled in the caboose). The lettering is so small on most of them that it's not readable in HO scale, but there have been commercial ones with legends like "UNLOAD OTHER SIDE," and similar wordings which are large on prototype placards. Route cards are very small.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Don Worthy
 

Thank you so much, Tony. Yes, I've had too many irons in the fire. I had "waybills" on the brain and could not think of "Route".
Now, I've got to find a copy of RMC and in my area of Georgia, that's not going to be easy.
Thanks again
Don Worthy

Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Don Worthy wrote:
Also, does anyone know of a source for HO scale waybills? I've seen
several models with this detail added. What information would it have?
Probably you mean placards or route cards, not waybills (they
traveled in the caboose). The lettering is so small on most of them
that it's not readable in HO scale, but there have been commercial ones
with legends like "UNLOAD OTHER SIDE," and similar wordings which are
large on prototype placards. Route cards are very small.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



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S. Busch <SCSBusch@...>
 

Don Worthy asked:

Guys do any of you know of a photo of a C&O 40' auto-box car that I
could look at?
I'm building a F&C kit for a friend but, I do not know any thing about
the C&O painting and lettering for these cars. He wants it numbered
44357 and has just sent a Champ decal set. Champs information has
several different color schemes.

Don, just which F&C stock number car is this? The F&C 40' auto-box which I am familiar with (Stock # 6670) comes with C&O decals and a photo of the car prior to the C&O donut style monogram.

If that is the F&C car, then it should be in the number series 9500 through 9999; I think that the car numbered 44357 was a 50 ton gondola. Also, drawings and photos of the car were in Mainline Modeler June, 1984. Car was all the same color overall, sides, doors, roof and ends.

Steve Busch
Duncan, SC


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Don Worthy asked:
"Guys do any of you know of a photo of a C&O 40' auto-box car that I
could look at?"

The July/August 2005 issue of the C&OHS magazine "C&O History" has a
9-page article on the 9500-9599 series cars by Al Kresse with 8
photos of these cars. Additionally, the March 2005 issue has an
article on building the Funaro kit for this prototype. The modeling
article is well done with one notable exception - to save time on
building a second model, the author chose to replace the kit
underframe with a Central Valley stockcar underframe, which has
incorrect crossmembers, underframe details, and most noticeably, the
kingpin-to-striker distance.


"I'm building a F&C kit for a friend but, I do not know any thing
about the C&O painting and lettering for these cars. He wants it
numbered 44357 and has just sent a Champ decal set. Champ's
information has several different color schemes."

Where is your friend getting this information? 44357 is a bogus
number for the Funaro kit. I couldn't find any evidence of
renumberings. Which Champ set did he send you?


"Would this car have black ends, doors and roof?"

The only color photo that I could turn up was on the cover of the
July/August 2005 C&O History magazine. It's dated 1958. The doors
are NOT black; the roof is dark but appears to be grimy vice painted
black; the ends are impossible to tell as they are in shadow. The
black and white photos do NOT appear to show black ends or doors.


Ben Hom


Don Worthy
 

Yes Ben, I mis read his orginal letter. The car number is to be "# 9742" and a "new date of 7-48". The box has #6770 but, doesn't have the instruction sheet but, does have decals.
I thought, that I was to use a Champ decal but, yesterday I received a decal "diagram" sheet. He has a check by one of the drawings labeled HB-114 and HD-12. Under the side drawing of the car has "Entire car painted Aluminum. Black trucks and underbody. All lettering Black". This is what I "really" question.
The picture on the box is b&w and looks all one color but, I wouldn't think it to be "silver".
Thanks guys and sorry I've mis read his note.

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Don Worthy asked:
"Guys do any of you know of a photo of a C&O 40' auto-box car that I
could look at?"

The July/August 2005 issue of the C&OHS magazine "C&O History" has a
9-page article on the 9500-9599 series cars by Al Kresse with 8
photos of these cars. Additionally, the March 2005 issue has an
article on building the Funaro kit for this prototype. The modeling
article is well done with one notable exception - to save time on
building a second model, the author chose to replace the kit
underframe with a Central Valley stockcar underframe, which has
incorrect crossmembers, underframe details, and most noticeably, the
kingpin-to-striker distance.


"I'm building a F&C kit for a friend but, I do not know any thing
about the C&O painting and lettering for these cars. He wants it
numbered 44357 and has just sent a Champ decal set. Champ's
information has several different color schemes."

Where is your friend getting this information? 44357 is a bogus
number for the Funaro kit. I couldn't find any evidence of
renumberings. Which Champ set did he send you?


"Would this car have black ends, doors and roof?"

The only color photo that I could turn up was on the cover of the
July/August 2005 C&O History magazine. It's dated 1958. The doors
are NOT black; the roof is dark but appears to be grimy vice painted
black; the ends are impossible to tell as they are in shadow. The
black and white photos do NOT appear to show black ends or doors.


Ben Hom






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Scott Pitzer
 

Don,
I hope your friend is going to buy you a bottle of something... such as asprin!
C&O had a handful of aluminum box cars, but they've got nothing to do with this auto car kit... maybe he means for you to use the diagram as a guide for layout of the WHITE lettering on your box car. (Does that diagram have the Progress logo or not?)
The car shouldn't have a NEW date of 7-48 but it can have that as a reweighing date... there is a listing of abbreviations for reweighing locations in the Files section.
In 1948 black ends and roofs were a sometimes thing on C&O cars... becoming less common. I believe black doors would be extremely rare.
Scott Pitzer
--------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Worthy <don_worthy@yahoo.com>
Sent: Jan 13, 2006 5:09 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: C&O Auto Box car

Yes Ben, I mis read his orginal letter. The car number is to be "# 9742" and a "new date of 7-48". The box has #6770 but, doesn't have the instruction sheet but, does have decals.
I thought, that I was to use a Champ decal but, yesterday I received a decal "diagram" sheet. He has a check by one of the drawings labeled HB-114 and HD-12. Under the side drawing of the car has "Entire car painted Aluminum. Black trucks and underbody. All lettering Black". This is what I "really" question.
The picture on the box is b&w and looks all one color but, I wouldn't think it to be "silver".
Thanks guys and sorry I've mis read his note.

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Don Worthy asked:
"Guys do any of you know of a photo of a C&O 40' auto-box car that I
could look at?"

The July/August 2005 issue of the C&OHS magazine "C&O History" has a
9-page article on the 9500-9599 series cars by Al Kresse with 8
photos of these cars. Additionally, the March 2005 issue has an
article on building the Funaro kit for this prototype. The modeling
article is well done with one notable exception - to save time on
building a second model, the author chose to replace the kit
underframe with a Central Valley stockcar underframe, which has
incorrect crossmembers, underframe details, and most noticeably, the
kingpin-to-striker distance.


"I'm building a F&C kit for a friend but, I do not know any thing
about the C&O painting and lettering for these cars. He wants it
numbered 44357 and has just sent a Champ decal set. Champ's
information has several different color schemes."

Where is your friend getting this information? 44357 is a bogus
number for the Funaro kit. I couldn't find any evidence of
renumberings. Which Champ set did he send you?


"Would this car have black ends, doors and roof?"

The only color photo that I could turn up was on the cover of the
July/August 2005 C&O History magazine. It's dated 1958. The doors
are NOT black; the roof is dark but appears to be grimy vice painted
black; the ends are impossible to tell as they are in shadow. The
black and white photos do NOT appear to show black ends or doors.


Ben Hom






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Don Worthy
 

Scott said:
maybe he means for you to use the diagram as a guide for layout of the WHITE lettering on your box car. (Does that diagram have the Progress logo or not?)
Yes, I'm thinking this was he way of showing me where the lettering is to go.
Yes, it does have the "Progress" logo.

Thank you for helping.
Don Worthy


Scott Pitzer <scottp459@earthlink.net> wrote:
Don,
I hope your friend is going to buy you a bottle of something... such as asprin!
C&O had a handful of aluminum box cars, but they've got nothing to do with this auto car kit... maybe he means for you to use the diagram as a guide for layout of the WHITE lettering on your box car. (Does that diagram have the Progress logo or not?)
The car shouldn't have a NEW date of 7-48 but it can have that as a reweighing date... there is a listing of abbreviations for reweighing locations in the Files section.
In 1948 black ends and roofs were a sometimes thing on C&O cars... becoming less common. I believe black doors would be extremely rare.
Scott Pitzer
--------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Worthy <don_worthy@yahoo.com>
Sent: Jan 13, 2006 5:09 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: C&O Auto Box car

Yes Ben, I mis read his orginal letter. The car number is to be "# 9742" and a "new date of 7-48". The box has #6770 but, doesn't have the instruction sheet but, does have decals.
I thought, that I was to use a Champ decal but, yesterday I received a decal "diagram" sheet. He has a check by one of the drawings labeled HB-114 and HD-12. Under the side drawing of the car has "Entire car painted Aluminum. Black trucks and underbody. All lettering Black". This is what I "really" question.
The picture on the box is b&w and looks all one color but, I wouldn't think it to be "silver".
Thanks guys and sorry I've mis read his note.

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Don Worthy asked:
"Guys do any of you know of a photo of a C&O 40' auto-box car that I
could look at?"

The July/August 2005 issue of the C&OHS magazine "C&O History" has a
9-page article on the 9500-9599 series cars by Al Kresse with 8
photos of these cars. Additionally, the March 2005 issue has an
article on building the Funaro kit for this prototype. The modeling
article is well done with one notable exception - to save time on
building a second model, the author chose to replace the kit
underframe with a Central Valley stockcar underframe, which has
incorrect crossmembers, underframe details, and most noticeably, the
kingpin-to-striker distance.


"I'm building a F&C kit for a friend but, I do not know any thing
about the C&O painting and lettering for these cars. He wants it
numbered 44357 and has just sent a Champ decal set. Champ's
information has several different color schemes."

Where is your friend getting this information? 44357 is a bogus
number for the Funaro kit. I couldn't find any evidence of
renumberings. Which Champ set did he send you?


"Would this car have black ends, doors and roof?"

The only color photo that I could turn up was on the cover of the
July/August 2005 C&O History magazine. It's dated 1958. The doors
are NOT black; the roof is dark but appears to be grimy vice painted
black; the ends are impossible to tell as they are in shadow. The
black and white photos do NOT appear to show black ends or doors.


Ben Hom






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leakinmywaders
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@s...> wrote:

Don Worthy wrote:
Also, does anyone know of a source for HO scale waybills? I've seen
several models with this detail added. What information would it have?
Probably you mean placards or route cards, not waybills (they
traveled in the caboose). The lettering is so small on most of them
that it's not readable in HO scale, but there have been commercial ones
with legends like "UNLOAD OTHER SIDE," and similar wordings which are
large on prototype placards.
Don, IN HO scale, Microscale set 87-975, "Hazardous material Placards
for Freight Cars (1945-1970) might be what you are looking for. The
sheet has many useful placards of the type Tony mentions, not just
hazardous material signs.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Scott Pitzer wrote:
"C&O had a handful of aluminum box cars, but they've got nothing to
do with this auto car kit... maybe he means for you to use the
diagram as a guide for layout of the WHITE lettering on your box
car. (Does that diagram have the Progress logo or not?)"

Don Worthy wrote:
"Yes, I'm thinking this was he way of showing me where the lettering
is to go. Yes, it does have the "Progress" logo."

The C&O Historical Society website has online photos of these cars
as built:
http://www.chessieshop.com/gallery/showphoto.pl?id=8396
http://www.chessieshop.com/gallery/showphoto.pl?id=8397
http://www.chessieshop.com/gallery/showphoto.pl?id=8398
http://www.chessieshop.com/gallery/showphoto.pl?id=8610

The C&O paint and lettering diagram for the cars as built are also
available through the society webstore:
http://www.chessieshop.com/pld12/index.htm

Select "Box Auto" from the drop down menu and type "9500" in the car
number block.

For photos of these cars in the "For Progress" lettering, I
recommend you get a copy of the C&O Historical Society Magazine
articles cited in my last e-mail. These are far better to work from
than a Champ lettering diagram for a different series of cars that
isn't entirely correct for the car that you're working on.


Ben Hom


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

I wrote:
"The July/August 2005 issue of the C&OHS magazine "C&O History" has
a 9-page article on the 9500-9599 series cars..."

This correction IS due to a typo. The correct number series is C&O
9500-9999.


Ben Hom


Scott Pitzer
 

There's a good-looking model in the 1948 scheme, by John Riddell, in the Product Review section of the February 2006 Railroad Model Craftsman. If you're going to put a 1948 date on the car, you might as well use RA for the reweigh symbol (Raceland Shops) as if the car got repainted there. Other locations might have been slower to put the Progress logo to use. (One shop on the old Pere Marquette was painting ex-PM cars into C&O, without any logo, in 1955!)
One comment in the review which doesn't ring true to me, is that some of these cars received the "C&O blue scheme" but I just remembered, that scheme came after 1960, so never mind!

Scott Pitzer


Tim O'Connor
 

Scott Pitzer wrote

One comment in the review which doesn't ring true to me, is that
some of these cars received the "C&O blue scheme" but I just remembered,
that scheme came after 1960, so never mind!

Nope. No later than 1957. 19000-19499 were delivered in blue in 1957
with yellow letters, and yellow brake wheels.

Tim O'Connor


Scott Pitzer
 

Oh, I forgot about those!
Some information (or assumption) about these 1957 cars pointed to black cars with DF loaders, and brown without DF. But Virl Davis had labeled his b/w photo of an as-delivered DF car as "blue" and was confident about it. Seems like after this order, (and 500 similar 50' cars), C&O settled on black for specially equipped or assigned box cars, but only for a little while. And in 1959 came the yellow-sided insulated cars.
Scott Pitzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Sent: Jan 15, 2006 12:01 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: C&O Auto Box car


Scott Pitzer wrote

One comment in the review which doesn't ring true to me, is that
some of these cars received the "C&O blue scheme" but I just remembered,
that scheme came after 1960, so never mind!

Nope. No later than 1957. 19000-19499 were delivered in blue in 1957
with yellow letters, and yellow brake wheels.

Tim O'Connor


Tim O'Connor
 

Scott, Ed Hawkins thinks the cars were black, not blue. I honestly
don't know, since I've only seen a published color photo taken in
strong light, and it looks bluish but it could have been black. There
was an article in Model Railroading Sept 1987 that says they were
blue also, but again I have no way of knowing it that's correct. I
would like to know the correct answer!

Tim O'Connor

Oh, I forgot about those!
Some information (or assumption) about these 1957 cars pointed to black cars with DF loaders, and brown without DF. But Virl Davis had labeled his b/w photo of an as-delivered DF car as "blue" and was confident about it. Seems like after this order, (and 500 similar 50' cars), C&O settled on black for specially equipped or assigned box cars, but only for a little while. And in 1959 came the yellow-sided insulated cars.
Scott Pitzer


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Nope. No later than 1957. 19000-19499 were delivered in blue in 1957
with yellow letters, and yellow brake wheels.


Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, January 15, 2006, at 08:21 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Scott, Ed Hawkins thinks the cars were black, not blue. I honestly
don't know, since I've only seen a published color photo taken in
strong light, and it looks bluish but it could have been black. There
was an article in Model Railroading Sept 1987 that says they were
blue also, but again I have no way of knowing it that's correct. I
would like to know the correct answer!

Tim O'Connor
Tim and Scott,
I want to further state that I don't have any official documentation
how the C&O 19000-19499 40' box cars (and 19500-19999 50' cars) were
painted. I made a concerted effort to find this information in the AC&F
specs/drawings, but have never been able to find it. All I'm going on
are two color photos that to my eye look like they're black with yellow
stencils. A 40' car shows up in a photo in the NP Color Pictorial book
and a 50' car is shown in the C&O Color Guide. Both cars have hand
brakes (the housing for the mechanism and the brake wheel) painted
yellow.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins