8.000/10.000 gallon tank car trucks [Proto 2000].


Arnold van Heyst
 

Sirs,

I've just saw severall photo's of the 8.000/10.000 gallon tank cars.
The revited type by Proto 2000.
Normal and insulated.
On the photo's you can see that all the trucks of that type is having
2 springs per side on 1 truck.
The insulated types 4!!

But the Proto 2000 is having 3!!!
Is 3 correct?
Can anyone tell me the manufacturer that has the proper type for this
car in the 1947/1960 period?

Regards,
Arnold van Heyst
Netherlands.


Tim O'Connor
 

Arnold, American prototype freight cars trucks use spring "packages"
that contain a lot more than 2 or 3 or 4 springs... They usually are
arranged in 3 rows, like 2 x 3 x 2 or other arrangements. Model trucks
rarely if ever try to show this. Some brass freight car trucks (e.g. W&R)
have experimented with up to 5 coil springs on each side, 10 per truck.

As far as I know the Proto 2000 steam era freight cars have all used
the same "AAR double truss, plankless" design which someone or other
identified as a Scullin sideframe design. Proto also makes a National
Type B truck but I haven't seen it offered with any of the models.

Model manufacturers usually punt on trucks. That's a U.S. expression
for "just kick the ball downfield and hope something good happens".
What it means for prototype modelers is that most models do not come
with the correct trucks. This can only be determined by consulting RR
freight car records, and/or photographs. A secondary problem is that
there are no available models of most freight car trucks in HO (or in
other scales for that matter). A further problem is that many of the
models that do exist are very poorly done. So... punt!

Tim O'Connor


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Arnold, American prototype freight cars trucks use spring "packages"
that contain a lot more than 2 or 3 or 4 springs... They usually are
arranged in 3 rows, like 2 x 3 x 2 or other arrangements. Model trucks
rarely if ever try to show this.
Not only that, there are slender springs inside EACH of those big outer springs that you can easily see. That's another reason the "see-through" type of "working" springs in HO trucks are so severely bogus.

Model manufacturers usually punt on trucks.
Sadly true, though gradually improving. And we now have at least a few HO trucks based on ACTUAL prototypes. The vesties must be baffled. "Ain't they all kinda Bettendorf??" or something similar is heard . . .

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 19, 2006, at 12:12 PM, Arnold wrote:

I've just saw severall photo's of the 8.000/10.000 gallon tank cars.
The revited type by Proto 2000.
Normal and insulated.
On the photo's you can see that all the trucks of that type is having
2 springs per side on 1 truck.
The insulated types 4!!

But the Proto 2000 is having 3!!!
Is 3 correct?
Can anyone tell me the manufacturer that has the proper type for this
car in the 1947/1960 period?
Arnold, the responses from both Tim O'Connor and Tony Thompson are
essentially correct. There are more springs in a truck than are
visible from the outside of the side frame. North American freight car
trucks typically had either four or five springs per truck, arranged
(looking from the top down):

O O
O O

or

O O
O
O O

Sometimes the center spring, if any, was visible (as modeled on the
Life-Like HO scale AAR trucks); sometimes it was lost in the shadows.

Seventy ton and heavier trucks often had six springs:

O O O
O O O

The trucks with four visible springs were Dalman trucks, which were
widely used in the 1920s and early '30s, before trucks with built-in
snubbers were developed. Dalmans had more and softer springs to
provide a better ride for the same weight-carrying capacity, and their
springs were arranged:

O O O O
O O O O

Eastern Car Works offers rather crude HO scale kits for Dalman trucks
(as well as for seventy ton AAR trucks) which are all we have at
present, but a better Dalman truck is under development by another
manufacturer and should become available later in 2006.

As for the correct trucks on the Life-Like AC&F Type 21 tank cars, it
depends. Many were built with Arch Bar trucks and got some type of
Andrews or ARA/AAR truck later in life. Some, like the Texaco and
General American cars modeled by Life-Like, were delivered with Dalman
two-level trucks. Others got ARA cast steel trucks with spring planks
when new. None were built with, and very few received as replacements,
the self-aligning spring-plankless trucks introduced in the mid-1930s
which are modeled by most manufacturers of HO scale trucks (and which
are often, though incorrectly, called "Bettendorf" trucks). As usual,
you have to consult prototype photos and then find the model trucks
that most closely resemble in type and side frame configuration the
trucks on the prototype you're modeling. No easy answers here.

Richard Hendrickson


Arnold van Heyst
 

Will the Eastern Car Works Inc Dalman trucks do it?
http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?quick=dalman&quicksrch_butt.x=21&quicksrch_butt.y=9

What are they made of?

Arnold van Heyst.


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 20, 2006, at 10:14 AM, Arnold wrote:

Will the Eastern Car Works Inc Dalman trucks do it?
http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?
quick=dalman&quicksrch_butt.x=21&quicksrch_butt.y=9

What are they made of?
They're made of styrene, which is both less durable and less "slippery"
as a bearing surface than the engineering plastics used in most HO
scale trucks. But they're all we have at present. As I mentioned in a
previous post, however, another manufacturer has much better Dalman two
level trucks under development I've seen incomplete sample moldings,
so we're not talking vaporware here and I'd be inclined to wait until
these become available later this year.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Arnold van Heyst
 

Who will manufacture the new Dalman trucks?

Arnold.

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:

On Jan 20, 2006, at 10:14 AM, Arnold wrote:

Will the Eastern Car Works Inc Dalman trucks do it?
http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?
quick=dalman&quicksrch_butt.x=21&quicksrch_butt.y=9

What are they made of?
They're made of styrene, which is both less durable and less
"slippery"
as a bearing surface than the engineering plastics used in most HO
scale trucks. But they're all we have at present. As I mentioned
in a
previous post, however, another manufacturer has much better Dalman
two
level trucks under development – I've seen incomplete sample moldings,
so we're not talking vaporware here – and I'd be inclined to wait
until
these become available later this year.

Richard Hendrickson




Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 20, 2006, at 12:02 PM, Arnold wrote:

Who will manufacture the new Dalman trucks?
I'm not at liberty to disclose that information yet.

Richard Hendrickson


al_brown03
 

There are also cast-metal Dalmans available from *Bethlehem* Car
Works, in their "Kitbits" line. I *think* these are the old Red Ball
trucks formerly available from Cape Line. BCW assemble them with
screws, instead of soldering them together as previous makers did.
They're recognizable Dalmans, and the screw assembly makes it easy to
paint the side frames or change out the wheel sets; but put it this
way, I'm curious to see the new trucks.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:

On Jan 20, 2006, at 10:14 AM, Arnold wrote:

Will the Eastern Car Works Inc Dalman trucks do it?
http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?
quick=dalman&quicksrch_butt.x=21&quicksrch_butt.y=9

What are they made of?
They're made of styrene, which is both less durable and
less "slippery"
as a bearing surface than the engineering plastics used in most HO
scale trucks. But they're all we have at present. As I mentioned
in a
previous post, however, another manufacturer has much better Dalman
two
level trucks under development – I've seen incomplete sample
moldings,
so we're not talking vaporware here – and I'd be inclined to wait
until
these become available later this year.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 20, 2006, at 1:16 PM, al_brown03 wrote:

There are also cast-metal Dalmans available from *Bethlehem* Car
Works, in their "Kitbits" line. I *think* these are the old Red Ball
trucks formerly available from Cape Line. BCW assemble them with
screws, instead of soldering them together as previous makers did.
They're recognizable Dalmans, and the screw assembly makes it easy to
paint the side frames or change out the wheel sets; but put it this
way, I'm curious to see the new trucks.
The spring arrangement is certainly Dalman, but otherwise the side
frame configuration of these ex-Red Ball trucks is, well, weird. I
don't doubt that there was a prototype for them somewhere, as M. Dale
Newton wasn't given to inventing things, but if so I've never found
even one prototype photo or drawing that shows it. So these trucks
are, for all practical purposes, useless.

Richard Hendrickson