B&O P-25 flat car questions


James Mischke <jmischke@...>
 

It is my understanding that the B&O class P-25 53' flat car
(built 1951 at DuBois shops with a kit from Greenville) conforms
to an AAR alternate standard design dating from 1941. The
standard AAR design was the basis for the Life Like P2K flat
car.

Are these assertions true?

What other railroads bought this design? I believe Erie, for
one.

Can someone please point me to model magazine articles, trade
journal coverage, and Car Builders' Cyclopedia drawings for this
car design?



Any insights would be appreciated.


Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Jan 23, 2006, at 4:03 PM, James Mischke wrote:

It is my understanding that the B&O class P-25 53' flat car
(built 1951 at DuBois shops with a kit from Greenville) conforms
to an AAR alternate standard design dating from 1941. The
standard AAR design was the basis for the Life Like P2K flat
car.

Are these assertions true?

What other railroads bought this design? I believe Erie, for
one.

Can someone please point me to model magazine articles, trade
journal coverage, and Car Builders' Cyclopedia drawings for this
car design?

Any insights would be appreciated.
Jim:

If these are the cars I am thinking of, they were an AAR 70-ton design (Life Like's Proto 2000 cars were the 50-ton design.) These cars were used by ATSF, IHB, NYC, Erie, NH, DT&I, Wabash, B&O, PM and CRP/CNJ. Sunshine offers kits for them in their 30.xx series.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 23, 2006, at 1:03 PM, James Mischke wrote:

It is my understanding that the B&O class P-25 53' flat car
(built 1951 at DuBois shops with a kit from Greenville) conforms
to an AAR alternate standard design dating from 1941.   The
standard AAR design was the basis for the Life Like P2K flat
car.

Are these assertions true?
Mostly true. There were actually three AAR recommended practice flat
car designs, a 50 ton riveted car (modeled by Life-Like), a seventy ton
riveted car ( modeled in resin by Sunshine), and a seventy ton cast
steel car (the Pennsy F30 design, which was built only for the PRR and
one or two satellite roads). The seventy tone riveted car was the
design used by the B&O for its P-25 class.

What other railroads bought this design?   I believe Erie, for
one.
The seventy ton AAR RP flat car was first designed and built for the
Erie. Other RRs that bought them included the NYC and IHB (several
lots), the Santa Fe (class Ft-V), the Pere Marquette (later C&O), the
New Haven, and the Wabash (and perhaps others that don't come to mind
right now).

Can someone please point me to model magazine articles, trade
journal coverage, and Car Builders' Cyclopedia drawings for this
car design?
Drawings and photos are in the '43, '46, and later Car Builders'
Cyclopedias.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bruce Smith
 

On Jan 23, 2006, at 3:47 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Mostly true. There were actually three AAR recommended practice flat
car designs, a 50 ton riveted car (modeled by Life-Like), a seventy ton
riveted car ( modeled in resin by Sunshine), and a seventy ton cast
steel car (the Pennsy F30 design, which was built only for the PRR and
one or two satellite roads).
Actually, that's the F30A design as the F30 was a riveted car ;^)

AFAIK, those vasal states of the PRR would be Lehigh Valley and N&W. Did any others build the cast steel car?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

James Mischke wrote:
to an AAR alternate standard design dating from 1941.   The
standard AAR design was the basis for the Life Like P2K flat
car.

Are these assertions true?

What other railroads bought this design?   I believe Erie, for
one.

Can someone please point me to model magazine articles, trade
journal coverage, and Car Builders' Cyclopedia drawings for this
car design?
Jim,
The B&O P-25 flat cars conformed to the A.A.R. 70-ton design. The L-L
P2K cars conform to a 50-ton design. There are significant differences
in the overall appearance of these two designs including the shape of
the fish-belly sides, underframes, numbers of side stakes, and even the
flooring layout. The 50-ton cars had continuous crosswise flooring that
extending from end to end while the 70-ton cars had steel plate visible
crosswise at the bolsters plus another section of steel plate extending
from the bolster to the end sills. Thus, the 70-ton wood flooring had
five sections (one between the bolsters and two each between the
bolsters and end sills). The common arrangement has 14 stake pockets
per side on the 70-ton cars while the 50-ton cars have 15.

The 1946 CBC has photos of cars built for ATSF, Erie, and NYC. There
were some variations on the width of these cars (10'-4" and 10'-6") and
also some different brake arrangements.

Other roads owning cars of this type include ATSF, C&O (ex PM),
CRP/CNJ, DT&I, Erie, IHB, NH, NYC, PM, and Wabash. Incidentally, there
were several other classes of B&O cars other than the P-25. This design
is very much different than the SP/T&NO 70-ton flat car offered by Red
Caboose.

About 6 years ago and before the arrival of Marty McGuirk,
InterMountain Railway Co. was in a hurry to produce this model, or so
they said. I obtained prototype drawings from people at the former
Greenville Steel (now closed) and sent copies to IRC. Obviously they
weren't in such a hurry after all. I'd sure like for an HO-scale model
to become a reality. Perhaps IRC could be persuaded to renew their
original interest.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins





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Ed Hawkins
 

On Monday, January 23, 2006, at 01:03 PM, James Mischke wrote:

It is my understanding that the B&O class P-25 53' flat car
(built 1951 at DuBois shops with a kit from Greenville) conforms
to an AAR alternate standard design dating from 1941.   The
standard AAR design was the basis for the Life Like P2K flat
car.

Are these assertions true?

What other railroads bought this design?   I believe Erie, for
one.

Can someone please point me to model magazine articles, trade
journal coverage, and Car Builders' Cyclopedia drawings for this
car design?
Jim,
The B&O P-25 flat cars conformed to the A.A.R. 70-ton design. The L-L
P2K cars conform to a 50-ton design. There are significant differences
in the overall appearance of these two designs including the shape of
the fish-belly sides, underframes, numbers of side stakes, and even the
flooring layout. The 50-ton cars had continuous crosswise flooring that
extending from end to end while the 70-ton cars had steel plate visible
crosswise at the bolsters plus another section of steel plate extending
from the bolster to the end sills. Thus, the 70-ton wood flooring had
five sections (one between the bolsters and two each between the
bolsters and end sills). The common arrangement has 14 stake pockets
per side on the 70-ton cars while the 50-ton cars have 15.

The 1946 CBC has photos of cars built for ATSF, Erie, and NYC. There
were some variations on the width of these cars (10'-4" and 10'-6") and
also some different brake arrangements.

Other roads owning cars of this type include ATSF, C&O (ex PM),
CRP/CNJ, DT&I, Erie, IHB, NH, NYC, PM, and Wabash. Incidentally, there
were several other classes of B&O cars other than the P-25. This design
is very much different than the SP/T&NO 70-ton flat car offered by Red
Caboose.

About 6 years ago and before the arrival of Marty McGuirk,
InterMountain Railway Co. was in a hurry to produce this model, or so
they said. I obtained prototype drawings from people at the former
Greenville Steel (now closed) and sent copies to IRC. Obviously they
weren't in such a hurry after all. I'd sure like for an HO-scale model
to become a reality. Perhaps IRC could be persuaded to renew their
original interest.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 23, 2006, at 2:03 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Actually, that's the F30A design as the F30 was a riveted car ;^)
Right. I knew that, but inadvertently omitted the "A" (however, at
least I didn't put a dash after the "F").


AFAIK, those vasal states of the PRR would be Lehigh Valley and N&W.  
Did any others build the cast steel car?
Those are the only ones I know about, Bruce. When other RRs adopted
cast steel flat cars in the '50s, they used the GSC design instead of
the more complicated and costly PRR design. (Ever notice how often
"complicated and costly" and PRR seemed to go together?)

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]