Duryea Underframes


Richard Hendrickson
 

Al Hoffman recalls seeing information somewhere that Duryea underframes were outlawed in interchange at some point. I think he may be right, but I can't remember where I got that impression either. Can anyone on the list shed some light on this issue?

Richard Hendrickson


Scott Pitzer
 

I got that impression from some captions in the B&O Color Guide. But no details. So I look forward to learning the real story.

Scott Pitzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Sent: Feb 17, 2006 10:26 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Duryea Underframes

Al Hoffman recalls seeing information somewhere that Duryea underframes
were outlawed in interchange at some point. I think he may be right,
but I can't remember where I got that impression either. Can anyone on
the list shed some light on this issue?

Richard Hendrickson




Yahoo! Groups Links







jerryglow2
 

This came up the other day on the BBFCL and a response cited 1970 as
the date they were outlawed. Can't confirm or deny but it's a start.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Scott Pitzer <scottp459@...> wrote:

I got that impression from some captions in the B&O Color Guide.
But no details. So I look forward to learning the real story.

Scott Pitzer


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
Sent: Feb 17, 2006 10:26 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Duryea Underframes

Al Hoffman recalls seeing information somewhere that Duryea
underframes
were outlawed in interchange at some point. I think he may be
right,
but I can't remember where I got that impression either. Can
anyone on
the list shed some light on this issue?

Richard Hendrickson


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jerry Glow wrote:
"This came up the other day on the BBFCL and a response cited 1970
as the date they were outlawed. Can't confirm or deny but it's a
start."

Cross referencing 1970 vs Jeff English's AAR Interchange Dates
compilation in the STMFC files section turned up "No underframes over
50 years (blt before Jan 2 1970?)", attributed to Eric Neubauer.


Ben Hom


Tim O'Connor
 

Mass retirement of D&RGW Duryea equipped gons began in 1972, and a
couple of old emails from Eric and Jim Eager approximate the time of
expiration of Duryea equipped freight cars as 1972 to 1974. They were
of course only prohibited for interchange and many cars continued in
company service for much longer.

Tim O'Connor

Jerry Glow wrote:
"This came up the other day on the BBFCL and a response cited 1970
as the date they were outlawed. Can't confirm or deny but it's a
start."

Cross referencing 1970 vs Jeff English's AAR Interchange Dates
compilation in the STMFC files section turned up "No underframes over
50 years (blt before Jan 2 1970?)", attributed to Eric Neubauer.

Ben Hom


Doug Brown <g.brown1@...>
 

From:

Code of <http://www.washingtonwatchdog.org/documents/cfr/index.html>
Federal Regulations
Title <http://www.washingtonwatchdog.org/documents/cfr/title49/index.html>
49 Transportation

_____


PART 215-RAILROAD FREIGHT CAR SAFETY STANDARDS


215.203 Restricted cars.

(a) This section restricts the operation of any railroad freight car that
is-



(1) More than 50 years old, measured from the date of original construction;



(2) Equipped with any design or type component listed in appendix A to this
part; or



(3) Equipped with a Duryea underframe constructed before April 1, 1950,
except for a caboose which is operated as the last car in a train.



Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
benjaminfrank_hom
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:09 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Duryea Underframes



Jerry Glow wrote:

"This came up the other day on the BBFCL and a response cited 1970

as the date they were outlawed. Can't confirm or deny but it's a

start."



Cross referencing 1970 vs Jeff English's AAR Interchange Dates

compilation in the STMFC files section turned up "No underframes over

50 years (blt before Jan 2 1970?)", attributed to Eric Neubauer.





Ben Hom













Yahoo! Groups Links



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/



STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/











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Scott Pitzer
 

We'll have to quit this soon, considering it certainly happened after 1960, but...
I remember from past discussions about underframe AGES, the 50 years was "cut by one year, every year" until it was a 40-year limit for interchange (although I think up to 50 years was OK for home-road use.)
Scott Pitzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Brown <g.brown1@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Feb 18, 2006 11:57 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Duryea Underframes

From:

Code of <http://www.washingtonwatchdog.org/documents/cfr/index.html>
Federal Regulations
Title <http://www.washingtonwatchdog.org/documents/cfr/title49/index.html>
49 Transportation

_____


PART 215-RAILROAD FREIGHT CAR SAFETY STANDARDS


215.203 Restricted cars.

(a) This section restricts the operation of any railroad freight car that
is-



(1) More than 50 years old, measured from the date of original construction;



(2) Equipped with any design or type component listed in appendix A to this
part; or



(3) Equipped with a Duryea underframe constructed before April 1, 1950,
except for a caboose which is operated as the last car in a train.



Doug Brown



-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
benjaminfrank_hom
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:09 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Duryea Underframes



Jerry Glow wrote:

"This came up the other day on the BBFCL and a response cited 1970

as the date they were outlawed. Can't confirm or deny but it's a

start."



Cross referencing 1970 vs Jeff English's AAR Interchange Dates

compilation in the STMFC files section turned up "No underframes over

50 years (blt before Jan 2 1970?)", attributed to Eric Neubauer.





Ben Hom













Yahoo! Groups Links



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/



STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/











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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/263 - Release Date: 2/16/2006










Yahoo! Groups Links






Bill Kelly
 

The 1970 Field Manual of the AAR Interchange Rules tells us under rule
90, 3b that cars equipped with Duryea underframes are prohibited in
interchange effective July 1, 1972.

The 1978 Field Manual tells us under rule 90, 3b that cars built prior to
April 1, 1950 equipped with Duryea underframes are prohibited in
interchange.

Something changed in those eight years. I've exhausted my post 1970
sources but it appears that Duryea underframes could be seen after 1978.
Someone with a more comprehensive library could tell us

Later,
Bill Kelly


Doug Brown <g.brown1@...>
 

According to 49 CFR (see my other post) company service cars with Duryea
underframes could not be used in freight trains. I think they can be used in
ME and MW trains.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 1:16 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Duryea Underframes


Mass retirement of D&RGW Duryea equipped gons began in 1972, and a
couple of old emails from Eric and Jim Eager approximate the time of
expiration of Duryea equipped freight cars as 1972 to 1974. They were
of course only prohibited for interchange and many cars continued in
company service for much longer.

Tim O'Connor


Jerry Glow wrote:
"This came up the other day on the BBFCL and a response cited 1970
as the date they were outlawed. Can't confirm or deny but it's a
start."

Cross referencing 1970 vs Jeff English's AAR Interchange Dates
compilation in the STMFC files section turned up "No underframes over
50 years (blt before Jan 2 1970?)", attributed to Eric Neubauer.

Ben Hom



Yahoo! Groups Links








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Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 18, 2006, at 4:51 PM, Doug Brown wrote:

According to 49 CFR (see my other post) company service cars with
Duryea
underframes could not be used in freight trains. I think they can be
used in
ME and MW trains.
Doug, the information re: 49 CFR is very useful, but it isn't clear at
what date the prohibition of Duryea underframes built before 1950 took
effect. The version of 49 CFR you posted was dated 1979, but I wonder
if it banned Duryea U/Fs for the first time or restated a prohibition
which was already in effect. Can you, or any other list subscriber,
clarify this?

Richard Hendrickson


Bill Kelly
 

The 1970 Field Manual of the AAR Interchange Rules tells us under rule
90, 3b that cars equipped with Duryea underframes are prohibited in
interchange effective July 1, 1972.

The 1978 Field Manual tells us under rule 90, 3b that cars built prior to
April 1, 1950 equipped with Duryea underframes are prohibited in
interchange.

Something changed in those eight years. I've exhausted my post 1970
sources but it appears that Duryea underframes could be seen after 1978.
Someone with a more comprehensive library could tell us

Later,
Bill Kelly


Doug Brown <g.brown1@...>
 

Based on the recent thread about GAEX & GARX cars having welded underframes
in late 1950, I would venture a guess that welding of Duryea started in
early 1950; The change was from all being outlawed to only riveted Duryea
underframes being outlawed. A lot of cars with half their life left would
become useless if all were outlawed.
Can anyone substantiate or refute this?

Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Kelly
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:32 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Duryea Underframes

The 1970 Field Manual of the AAR Interchange Rules tells us under rule
90, 3b that cars equipped with Duryea underframes are prohibited in
interchange effective July 1, 1972.

The 1978 Field Manual tells us under rule 90, 3b that cars built prior to
April 1, 1950 equipped with Duryea underframes are prohibited in
interchange.

Something changed in those eight years. I've exhausted my post 1970
sources but it appears that Duryea underframes could be seen after 1978.
Someone with a more comprehensive library could tell us

Later,
Bill Kelly



Yahoo! Groups Links









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Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/263 - Release Date: 2/16/2006


Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

The first of the GAEX cars with this underframe , GAEX 1950, was built in April 1950. The
1949-1951 CBC (the first to do so) that shows a drawing of the underframe was printed
sometime in 1949. Your guess seems reasonable.

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Brown" <g.brown1@...> wrote:

Based on the recent thread about GAEX & GARX cars having welded underframes
in late 1950, I would venture a guess that welding of Duryea started in
early 1950; The change was from all being outlawed to only riveted Duryea
underframes being outlawed. A lot of cars with half their life left would
become useless if all were outlawed.
Can anyone substantiate or refute this?

Doug Brown