General covered hopper questions


Michael Aufderheide
 

Tim Gilbert wrote:
For a covered
hopper in cement service, that range was limited because the cost of
transportation, and thus, total cost of the product to the consumer,
escalated the further away from their point of origin - cement being a
low value commodity with widespread cement plants nation wide.

Tim and all:

The effect this can have on a modeled fleet is important. For example
in the 1948 Monon conductor's logs I was surprised at two predominant
home road car types: covered hoppers and side-dump gons. After
reading this thread, it occurs to me that these cars were likely in
captive service. According to the logs and despite their small
numbers, I should see more of them on my layout than Monon boxcars!
(in 1948 there were only 30 covered hoppers and 20 side dump cars vs.
1500 or so boxcars)

I wonder if this is the case on other roads; the boxcars being
swallowed up in the national pool and more specialized cars staying
close to home in captive service?

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide


Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I'm far from a expert on covered hopper loads, but here's my 3 cents worth. In the upper Midwest cement was shipped to plant customers in home road hopper cars. A customer on the RI would get an RI hopper car and so forth. I have documentation of these other commodities hauled in two bay covered hoppers. Meal, malt, feed, lime, grain or grain products, sand, potash, and phosphate. Those of you with the Sidney Wheeler CD can see the distance some hoppers traveled with agricultural based loads. The CGW bought several series of two bay covered hoppers with roller bearing trucks for more reliable on line service.
There are photos of two bay covered hoppers being delivered to the local oil pipeline outlet. I've been told these cars carried additives for the gasoline?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Tim O'Connor
 

Additives for gasoline? I don't think so! :-)

I wonder if they contained detergent used to clean the pipes?

(Only half in jest. They must have needed to scrub them out from
time to time.)

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Clark Propst" <cepropst@netconx.net>
There are photos of two bay covered hoppers being delivered to the local oil
pipeline outlet. I've been told these cars carried additives for the gasoline?


al_brown03
 

Several threads lately have come to related conclusions, namely that
the movements of specialized cars were much more predictable than
those of general-service boxcars. Whether the specialized cars would
therefore *stay close to home*, though, depends on their service.
Covered hoppers hauling cement, probably yes, for the reasons stated
in this thread. ACL and SAL phosphate hoppers, yes, because most of
the traffic was from mines in interior Florida to Florida ports.
Auto parts cars, by contrast, might move highly predictably but from
Detroit to assembly plants across the country, e.g. on the West
Coast.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Aufderheide" <mononinmonon@...>
wrote:

Tim Gilbert wrote:
For a covered
hopper in cement service, that range was limited because the
cost of
transportation, and thus, total cost of the product to the
consumer,
escalated the further away from their point of origin - cement
being a
low value commodity with widespread cement plants nation wide.

Tim and all:

The effect this can have on a modeled fleet is important. For
example
in the 1948 Monon conductor's logs I was surprised at two
predominant
home road car types: covered hoppers and side-dump gons. After
reading this thread, it occurs to me that these cars were likely in
captive service. According to the logs and despite their small
numbers, I should see more of them on my layout than Monon
boxcars!
(in 1948 there were only 30 covered hoppers and 20 side dump cars
vs.
1500 or so boxcars)

I wonder if this is the case on other roads; the boxcars being
swallowed up in the national pool and more specialized cars staying
close to home in captive service?

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide


Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Mike Aufderheide wrote:

Tim Gilbert wrote:
For a covered
hopper in cement service, that range was limited because the cost of
transportation, and thus, total cost of the product to the consumer,
escalated the further away from their point of origin - cement being a
low value commodity with widespread cement plants nation wide.

Tim and all:
The effect this can have on a modeled fleet is important. For example
in the 1948 Monon conductor's logs I was surprised at two predominant
home road car types: covered hoppers and side-dump gons. After
reading this thread, it occurs to me that these cars were likely in
captive service. According to the logs and despite their small
numbers, I should see more of them on my layout than Monon boxcars!
(in 1948 there were only 30 covered hoppers and 20 side dump cars vs.
1500 or so boxcars)
I wonder if this is the case on other roads; the boxcars being
swallowed up in the national pool and more specialized cars staying
close to home in captive service?
Mike,

It happened all the time with open top hoppers - ergo, so few eastern hoppers going over Sherman Hill compared to eastern boxcars.

Meanwhile, I don't believe MONON's 20 side dump cars were even listed in the ORER's, and the 30 covered hoppers were on a tether to the cement plants on the MONON in southern Indiana (I assume).

Take Care,

Tim Gilbert


Tim O'Connor
 

Al

A factor that kept specialized cars on home rails was the fixed per
diem rates of that era, which meant that an expensive car earned
no more than an old, cheap car when it went offline. And therefore
the recipient road in effect got a nice expensive car for less than it
was worth! The affect of this was that until these cars become very
common (and also, any cars with roller bearing trucks) the railroads
tried not to send them off home rails if they could avoid it.

Tim O.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@fit.edu>
Several threads lately have come to related conclusions, namely that
the movements of specialized cars were much more predictable than
those of general-service boxcars. Whether the specialized cars would
therefore *stay close to home*, though, depends on their service.


Brian Termunde
 

In the early 1950's, the Park Service was building a new entrance road into
the Grand Canyon National Park as well as the State of Arizona rebuilding the
current AZ 64 from near Williams to the Park Entrance. I am guessing that the
cement would have come from the Southwest Portland Cement plant in
Victorville, Calif., unless anyone knows of any closer source? TIA

Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah

"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District


Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

A factor that kept specialized cars on home rails was the fixed per
diem rates of that era, which meant that an expensive car earned
no more than an old, cheap car when it went offline. And therefore
the recipient road in effect got a nice expensive car for less than it
was worth! The affect of this was that until these cars become very
common (and also, any cars with roller bearing trucks) the railroads
tried not to send them off home rails if they could avoid it.
Tim,

This could have been a factor providing one could get away with it. A couple of things to consider, however.

On a MONON Wheel Report of 1948, there were four MONON boxcars included - none of which were in CIL's #1-500 series delivered in May 1947.

The B&M accepted 500 PS-1 boxcars in Michigan City in 1947 from where they were dispatched for their maiden loaded voyages. The same thing occurred in 1951 when the B&M accepted another 750 PS-1's in Michigan City.

No doubt, others can think of another two examples to meet your higher authority's criterion of five.

Tim Gilbert


Tim O'Connor
 

Tim, what does this have to do with covered hoppers??

(I would not include ordinary boxcars in the category of
"specialized cars".)

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@sunlink.net>
timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

A factor that kept specialized cars on home rails was the fixed per
diem rates of that era, which meant that an expensive car earned
no more than an old, cheap car when it went offline. And therefore
the recipient road in effect got a nice expensive car for less than it
was worth! The affect of this was that until these cars become very
common (and also, any cars with roller bearing trucks) the railroads
tried not to send them off home rails if they could avoid it.
Tim,

This could have been a factor providing one could get away with it. A
couple of things to consider, however.

On a MONON Wheel Report of 1948, there were four MONON boxcars included
- none of which were in CIL's #1-500 series delivered in May 1947.

The B&M accepted 500 PS-1 boxcars in Michigan City in 1947 from where
they were dispatched for their maiden loaded voyages. The same thing
occurred in 1951 when the B&M accepted another 750 PS-1's in Michigan City.

No doubt, others can think of another two examples to meet your higher
authority's criterion of five.

Tim Gilbert