steel mills in the steam era/ justifying gons from far away


Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Dave;
You are correct.

Dave and all;

There were some 360 blast furnaces right after WW2, and considerably more
steel-makers prior to that that had Bessemer converters and such (we are now
at about 10% of the number we had 60 yrs ago). Many of them used the iron
in-house, but many shipped pigs of every variety, by gon or box car. Those
little pyramidal shapes are one I have not seen a model of.

There were also hundreds of foundries that used iron provided them by big
makers, and then thousands of users of both iron and steel that had furnaces
to form it and generate products.

For modelers of steam era freight cars, you could not cover the wide variety
of loads you could model that would be potentially accurate. Shots of gons
from above in yard shots show that we don't necessarily model all these loads
like they really appeared.

Some things we tend to forget were all the loads of unspectacular partial,
non-blocked/secured piles of small structural shapes, rail, pipe or skelp,
small manufactured shapes, and semi-finished products that may have filled
only a portion of a gondola, or only produced a small load on a flat car,
that would be a great addition to a fleet.

Scrap is another series of loads that could consist of anything. I have bags
of stuff from various sources that I use for this. It is very satisfying to
see this aspect of real-life on my layout (soon to be torn down, though).

Have a good one, folks,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of David
Smith
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 10:31 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] steel mills in the steam era/ justifying gons from far
away

> >Does anyone know all of the steel producing mills in the steam era?
Pittsburgh, Gary, Birmingham, Bethlehem PA, Cleveland, Buffalo ......
What were the others? <<

> I have a bunch of books and documents published by the steel industry
asnd
others on this subject. There were so many steel-makers you wouldn't
believe. If you have specific questions, ask them. There is too much
info
to list it all. <

Absolutely. There were many small mills scattered around. There were
probably dozens in PA alone. There were also a number of blast furnaces
that were not associated with steel mills and produced only pig iron. I
know there were blast furnaces in Port Henry, Standish, and Troy, New
York on the D&H, and I have found post cards of a mill in Charlotte, NY
(outskirts of Rochester). I believe that quite a few of these small
furnaces were only marginally profitable in the best of times and closed
during the Great Depression.

Dave Smith



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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David Smith <dsmith@...>
 

Does anyone know all of the steel producing mills in the steam era?
Pittsburgh, Gary, Birmingham, Bethlehem PA, Cleveland, Buffalo ......
What were the others? <<

> I have a bunch of books and documents published by the steel industry
asnd
others on this subject. There were so many steel-makers you wouldn't
believe. If you have specific questions, ask them. There is too much
info
to list it all. <

Absolutely. There were many small mills scattered around. There were
probably dozens in PA alone. There were also a number of blast furnaces
that were not associated with steel mills and produced only pig iron. I
know there were blast furnaces in Port Henry, Standish, and Troy, New
York on the D&H, and I have found post cards of a mill in Charlotte, NY
(outskirts of Rochester). I believe that quite a few of these small
furnaces were only marginally profitable in the best of times and closed
during the Great Depression.

Dave Smith


David Ball
 

and a plant I can't name in Torrance.
Columbia Steel (I've also seen it called Columbia-Geneva Steel)

David Ball

_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Garth Groff
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2006 11:40 p.m.
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] steel mills in the steam era/ justifying gons from far
away



Allen,

Add California operations Judson in Emeryville; Pacific States Steel,
Hayward (I think); USS Columbia Works, Pittsburg; Bethlehem, Downey and
South San Francisco; and a plant I can't name in Torrance.

Yes, Kaiser was in Fontana.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Allen Rueter wrote:

odds and ends:
Out west there were several Steel mills,
CO Pueblo - Colorado Fuel & Iron
UT Geneva - Geneva works (bought by USS after WWII)
CA Fontana - Kaiser ?

USS also had a mill in Duluth MN

In the mid 50s US Steel Supply located a warehouse in St.Louis on the
Wabash
UD line, it was projected to receive 6-10 loads a day, it's still there.
Hmm EJ&E had several direct connections with the Wabash, Brisbane IL,
near Clark Jct IN, Crocker IN.




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Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Allen,

Add California operations Judson in Emeryville; Pacific States Steel, Hayward (I think); USS Columbia Works, Pittsburg; Bethlehem, Downey and South San Francisco; and a plant I can't name in Torrance.

Yes, Kaiser was in Fontana.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Allen Rueter wrote:

odds and ends:
Out west there were several Steel mills,
CO Pueblo - Colorado Fuel & Iron
UT Geneva - Geneva works (bought by USS after WWII)
CA Fontana - Kaiser ?

USS also had a mill in Duluth MN

In the mid 50s US Steel Supply located a warehouse in St.Louis on the Wabash
UD line, it was projected to receive 6-10 loads a day, it's still there.
Hmm EJ&E had several direct connections with the Wabash, Brisbane IL,
near Clark Jct IN, Crocker IN.


Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Schuyler;
Thanks for educating me. All those times I went there, and didn't know that
important fact.

Thanks,

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Schuyler Larrabee
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 9:30 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] steel mills in the steam era/ justifying gons from far
away


Ed Mines:

Erie serviced the mill in Lackawanna, NY - I believe that's where all
those Greenville gons were used. Youngstown Sheet and Tube too.
Elden:

I will try to find out about YS&T, but I don't think Erie
went into Y-town.
Elden, don't spend a lot ot time researching that. The ERIE did indeed go to
(and through) "Y-town."
That's YOUNGSTOWN you know . . . It went so much "through" Youngstown that
after Conrail (sorry
Mike) the mayor made a deal so that the ERIE track would be abandoned, and he
made huge efforts to
obliterate the line through the city. Filled in bridges, built a Science
Museum (now closed)
directly over the line, and a jail ditto.

And YS&T was a very large ERIE (and later EL) customer.

SGL





Yahoo! Groups Links


Allen Rueter <allen@...>
 

odds and ends:
Out west there were several Steel mills,
CO Pueblo - Colorado Fuel & Iron
UT Geneva - Geneva works (bought by USS after WWII)
CA Fontana - Kaiser ?

USS also had a mill in Duluth MN

In the mid 50s US Steel Supply located a warehouse in St.Louis on the Wabash
UD line, it was projected to receive 6-10 loads a day, it's still there.
Hmm EJ&E had several direct connections with the Wabash, Brisbane IL,
near Clark Jct IN, Crocker IN.

--
------
Allen P Rueter o0000o Phone: 314/935-6429 email allen :) artsci.wustl.edu
.oO* there are at least three sides to every issue.


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Ed Mines:

Erie serviced the mill in Lackawanna, NY - I believe that's where all
those Greenville gons were used. Youngstown Sheet and Tube too.
Elden:

I will try to find out about YS&T, but I don't think Erie
went into Y-town.
Elden, don't spend a lot ot time researching that. The ERIE did indeed go to (and through) "Y-town."
That's YOUNGSTOWN you know . . . It went so much "through" Youngstown that after Conrail (sorry
Mike) the mayor made a deal so that the ERIE track would be abandoned, and he made huge efforts to
obliterate the line through the city. Filled in bridges, built a Science Museum (now closed)
directly over the line, and a jail ditto.

And YS&T was a very large ERIE (and later EL) customer.

SGL


aczhistory
 

Erie did go into Youngstown... as well as the PLE... they serviced
Republic Steel, Carnige and its subsidiaries, and YST.. as well as
some of the other smaller mills in YO... Other railroads were the B&O,
Penn, NYC and short lines...

andrea
born and bred YO'er


--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD "
<Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote:

Ed;
I think EJ&E serviced Gary, Indiana - formerly a steel producing area.
It did.

Erie serviced the mill in Lackawanna, NY - I believe that's where all
those Greenville gons were used. Youngstown Sheet and Tube too.

I will try to find out about YS&T, but I don't think Erie went into
Y-town.

Does anyone know all of the steel producing mills in the steam era?
Pittsburgh, Gary, Birmingham, Bethlehem PA, Cleveland, Buffalo ......
What were the others?

I have a bunch of books and documents published by the steel
industry asnd
others on this subject. There were so many steel-makers you wouldn't
believe. If you have specific questions, ask them. There is too
much info
to list it all.

From this list I learned that a P&LE customer shipped cast sewer pipes
all around the country - I guess there weren't many manufacturers of
those pipes around the country.

The answer I got to this question was: "Cost, man; it is all about
how much
someone was willing to sell you "X" when you asked. Prices
fluctuated daily,
so one week you might get pipe from J&L via the P&LE and next week
from USS
Gary via EJ&E.

Which companies made unique products that would bring gons from a far
into other regions of the country?

They ALL did. Each company had some unique steel product; or at
least one
that paid their bills. Each USS facility made something that the others
didn't. Or, at least locally. There were also hundreds of
different kinds
of steel, used in thousands of applications. Makers would vary the
ingredients according to users requests, so the steel, and products
made from
it, could also vary from week to week.

For example was any steel shipped from Birmingham into the New York
area? How about from Gary? There were plenty of mills much closer.

There could have been, depending on how much it cost them compared
to the
mills that were closer. I remember a guy from Levinson Steel (a
fabricator)
telling me that the reason they had gons of structural shapes from
Bethlehem
(PB&NE 65' gons) was that they got it cheaper than from USS, who was
literally a rock's throw across a fence!

Have a great weekend, guys!

Elden Gatwood


Michael Aufderheide
 

All,

Since "now" is past 1960, I'll tip toe on thin ice by pointing out that US Steel is still very much in operation in Gary. I have heard that it is one of the world's largest single site mills. The smell from the Skyway will water your eyes. More to the point that Elden is on, the J was a major interchange partner for the roads heading away from Chicago "then". It was 4th for the Monon in # of carloads in 1952 and EJE cars were distributed to the Southeast US this way.

Mike Aufderheide


"Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote: Ed;
>I think EJ&E serviced Gary, Indiana - formerly a steel producing area.


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Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Ed;
I think EJ&E serviced Gary, Indiana - formerly a steel producing area.
It did.

Erie serviced the mill in Lackawanna, NY - I believe that's where all
those Greenville gons were used. Youngstown Sheet and Tube too.

I will try to find out about YS&T, but I don't think Erie went into Y-town.

Does anyone know all of the steel producing mills in the steam era?
Pittsburgh, Gary, Birmingham, Bethlehem PA, Cleveland, Buffalo ......
What were the others?

I have a bunch of books and documents published by the steel industry asnd
others on this subject. There were so many steel-makers you wouldn't
believe. If you have specific questions, ask them. There is too much info
to list it all.

From this list I learned that a P&LE customer shipped cast sewer pipes
all around the country - I guess there weren't many manufacturers of
those pipes around the country.

The answer I got to this question was: "Cost, man; it is all about how much
someone was willing to sell you "X" when you asked. Prices fluctuated daily,
so one week you might get pipe from J&L via the P&LE and next week from USS
Gary via EJ&E.

Which companies made unique products that would bring gons from a far
into other regions of the country?

They ALL did. Each company had some unique steel product; or at least one
that paid their bills. Each USS facility made something that the others
didn't. Or, at least locally. There were also hundreds of different kinds
of steel, used in thousands of applications. Makers would vary the
ingredients according to users requests, so the steel, and products made from
it, could also vary from week to week.

For example was any steel shipped from Birmingham into the New York
area? How about from Gary? There were plenty of mills much closer.

There could have been, depending on how much it cost them compared to the
mills that were closer. I remember a guy from Levinson Steel (a fabricator)
telling me that the reason they had gons of structural shapes from Bethlehem
(PB&NE 65' gons) was that they got it cheaper than from USS, who was
literally a rock's throw across a fence!

Have a great weekend, guys!

Elden Gatwood


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ed Mines wrote:
Does anyone know all of the steel producing mills in the steam era?
Pittsburgh, Gary, Birmingham, Bethlehem PA, Cleveland, Buffalo ......
What were the others?
The Sparrows Point plant of Bethlehem, near Baltimore, was quite large. And don't forget Youngstown.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:
I have a slide with a EJ&E gon loaded with sugar beet being pushed
into the local plant.
I think EJ&E serviced Gary, Indiana - formerly a steel producing area.

Erie serviced the mill in Lackawanna, NY - I believe that's where all
those Greenville gons were used. Youngstown Sheet and Tube too.

Does anyone know all of the steel producing mills in the steam era?
Pittsburgh, Gary, Birmingham, Bethlehem PA, Cleveland, Buffalo ......
What were the others?

From watching the discovery channel I learned that partially assembled
sections of the Golden Gate Bridge were shipped from Bethlehem, PA.

From this list I learned that a P&LE customer shipped cast sewer pipes
all around the country - I guess there weren't many manufacturers of
those pipes around the country.

Which companies made unique products that would bring gons from a far
into other regions of the country?

For example was any steel shipped from Birmingham into the New York
area? How about from Gary? There were plenty of mills much closer.

ED