F&C AC&F Type 11 tank car

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>

I received one of Funaro & Camerlengo's "PRR TM8 8000 gallon ACF Type 7 tank car" models in the mail the other day.

I had ordered it because I thought it might be useful for modelling some older Canadian cars. In particular there was at least one series of OCS cars owned by CPR of very similar design. I was hoping to use this kit with only a few modifications, but neglected to notice that F&C's cars are supposed to be 8000 US gallon cars, whereas cars in lot 7323 purchased by the CPR were 8,000 Imperial Gallons! Oops!

Still, I wonder whether CPR had 8000 US gallon cars on the roster. The photos I have of these early cars don't have sufficient clarity to read the gallonage off the car side, and I know of no other sources for this info. For example, the 1938 MP 14, for example, at the CP Historical Association (formerly CP SIG) library <http://www.cpsig.ca/cpdocs/main.asp> only provides weight based capacity info.

From the Mercantile Library in St. Louis, I have photocopies of shots of CPR cars:
- CP389489 (8370 Imp. Gal., 10,044 US Gal.) - lot 7323, listed on the AC&F list as 40T SU Tank cars (not sure what SU stands for);
- CP300900 (with some sort of external pump mounted along the end sill) - lot 6661A,
- CP300901 (with a scaffold/rack on one end sill)- lot 6661B,
- CP89717 (in creosote service) - lot 6440B,
- CP89647, lot 6440A
all of which have the Type 7 frame/bolster casting but are otherwise very similar to the Type 11 PRR cars.

There are also photos of lot 7199 & 7524 cars, PGE X54 and X58 - both Type 7's - with CAPY of 10041 and 10043 gallons each.

Some in-service shots (poor quality and arguable ID's) can be found at City of Vancouver Archives
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/ctyclerk/archives/notdream/ws_scan.htm , by searching for photo CVA 447-187, and at Vancouver Public Library <http://www3.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca/spe/histphotos/photos-search.htm> by searching for photo 30290.

I've read enough times on this list that the capacity of cars is based on the trucks, not the actual capacity of the rest of the car, so its no guide to the size of the tanks. Yet I wonder.... The CPR cars in 1938 listed these series:
series date built CP EO # capacity reported length over sills
389467 & 389469 1912 1296 100000 31' 7 1/2"
389471-389499 1913 1466 80000 31' 7 1/2"
389501-389679 1912 1227 80000 32' 7 1/2"
389681-389719 1912 1268 80000 32' 7 1/2"
389801-389919 1911 1093 100000 35' 5"
389953-389989 1911 1002 80000 35' 5"

Of course, as noted above, CP389489 is stencilled as a nominal 10000 gallon car, so that busts that wild guess!

For modellers, my rough comparison of dimensions essentially confirms the F&C tank is roughly 8000 US gallons. The diameter of the tank is nearly that of the Titchy 10000 US Gallon USRA design/model, but the length is about 4 feet shorter. The Old Timer Roundhouse tank, which I think is about 6500 US Gallons, is roughly the same diameter, but an additional 1.5 feet shorter than the F&C. (None of these dimensions are exact - I am just holding one model against another and eye-balling the differences).

So now I have three questions:
1) Was the AC&F Type 11 frame for an 8000 gallon tank the same (with different cradle / saddle) as or smaller than the frame for the 10,000 gallon tank? I.e. can I use the frame (modified a little) and substitute a new tank? Whether yes or no, are there any dimensions available for the 10000 gallon frames and tanks?
2) Does anyone know whether any of CPR's cars of the type 7 and 11 designs were 8000 gallon cars?
3) Assuming there is no good CPR prototype for the F&C car, any ideas of 8000 US gallon type 7 or 11 tank cars used in Canada?

By the way, from what I see in prototype photos, the bottom horizontal course of the tank is supposed to be one sheet of steel. The model mistakenly includes radial seams and rivet rows across this course. Oops! I expect this error can be fixed with some sanding and putty.

Rob Kirkham