Unloading Gondolas was:Coal In Gondolas Etc


Walter M. Clark
 

Not just high school kids. In Tony Thompson's book "Southern Pacific
Freight Cars, Volume 1: Gondolas and Stock Cars" there's a Chet McCoid
photo taken April 10, 1952 in San Saba, Texas showing some well-past
high school guys hand unloading a gondola of what appears to be sand.
I sure wouldn't want to be helping them <g>.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California

--- In STMFC@..., Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:

Hi Mike and List,

Coal was loaded into boxcars even in Indiana. I have a plan for a
new coal mine tipple being built on the Milw (possibly also joint
with Monon or C&EI) in the late 1950's and one track has a boxcar
loader.

As for unloading flat bottom gons, a shovel and a high school kid
working cheap are just fine. I have a friend, who is a baby boomer,
and his first paying job, off the farm in Wisconsin, was a Saturday
with a scoop shovel, unloading a gon of coal at the local coal
dealer. this was in the mid 1960's.

current readers tend to forget in the classic era of this list, hand
shoveling or hand unloading of product was very common. Labor was
cheaper and more ready to tackle these sort of jobs.

Ted
<snip the rest>


Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "wmcclark1980" <walterclark@...> wrote:

Not just high school kids. In Tony Thompson's book "Southern Pacific
Freight Cars, Volume 1: Gondolas and Stock Cars" there's a Chet McCoid
photo taken April 10, 1952 in San Saba, Texas showing some well-past
high school guys hand unloading a gondola of what appears to be sand.
I sure wouldn't want to be helping them <g>.

Walter M. Clark
Younger, too. In many parts of the country child labor laws were
observed almost as stringently as the rule that empty boxcar doors
must be closed.

In one installment of his "North Dakota Memories" series in The SOO,
the magazine of the Soo Line Historical & Technical Society, Les Kruta
relates how in the thirties he and his brother had a lock on the job
of unloading boxcars of coal for the local elevator. If I recall the
article correctly (and I'm not digging it out) Les was ten and his
brother was eight. They were paid a dime a ton to unload the car IIRC,
so a forty ton car would net them $4, but if they held the car more
than the two free days, the demurrage was deducted from their pay. Les
mentions that they really liked when cars came in on Thursday, as the
weekend gave them two extra free days to do the job.

Tools were regular coal scoops and a wheelbarrow to move the coal from
the ends of the car. Les mentions that the shed had been constructed
back in the days of 30 and 35 ton capacity cars, and to get 40 tons of
coal in the shed they'd have to push it up between the rafters. Often
times the elevator manager would sell some right off the car so this
wouldn't be necessary.

Dennis


PBowers <waiting@...>
 

At 11:38 PM 8/7/06, you wrote:
Tools were regular coal scoops and a wheelbarrow to move the coal from
the ends of the car. Les mentions that the shed had been constructed
back in the days of 30 and 35 ton capacity cars, and to get 40 tons of
coal in the shed they'd have to push it up between the rafters. Often
times the elevator manager would sell some right off the car so this
wouldn't be necessary.
Any coal yard I was involved with preferred loading direct from rail car to trucks etc. Having to unload to shed and then reload to vehicles from a pile was more expensive but considering we received most coal locally by ship, most coal was loaded from the piles anyway. It was only after coal ceased to be shipped in by water that rail shipments increased but by that time coal used locally was down to a few hundred tons. Generally, it was put in the coal shed and the car was released......just as demurrage was about to be charged.

Peter Bowers


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/06


Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

It as been my contention for some time that the low side gondola was
done in by the minimum wage law!

regards,

Andy Miller



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of wmcclark1980
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 4:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Unloading Gondolas was:Coal In Gondolas
Etc



Not just high school kids. In Tony Thompson's book "Southern
Pacific
Freight Cars, Volume 1: Gondolas and Stock Cars" there's a Chet
McCoid
photo taken April 10, 1952 in San Saba, Texas showing some
well-past
high school guys hand unloading a gondola of what appears to be
sand.
I sure wouldn't want to be helping them <g>.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike and List,
>
> Coal was loaded into boxcars even in Indiana. I have a plan
for a
> new coal mine tipple being built on the Milw (possibly also
joint
> with Monon or C&EI) in the late 1950's and one track has a
boxcar
loader.
>
> As for unloading flat bottom gons, a shovel and a high school
kid
> working cheap are just fine. I have a friend, who is a baby
boomer,
> and his first paying job, off the farm in Wisconsin, was a
Saturday
> with a scoop shovel, unloading a gon of coal at the local
coal
> dealer. this was in the mid 1960's.
>
> current readers tend to forget in the classic era of this
list, hand
> shoveling or hand unloading of product was very common. Labor
was
> cheaper and more ready to tackle these sort of jobs.
>
> Ted
<snip the rest>


Steve Sandifer <jssand@...>
 

All over Iowa and Kansas you will find track side coal sheds like this one:
http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Howard/Hamilton/Coal/Index.htm
A Gondola would be parked on one side, the roof hatches of the shed opened, and the coal was shoveled by hand into it. The hardest part was getting one cut from top to bottom. Thereafter unloading was easier. These bins were usually on the house track and make an easy industry to add that takes little space on a layout. http://users2.ev1.net/~jssand/SFJct/CoOpC.htm

I visited with the owner of the grain elevator in Moline, KS. He ordered about 3 gondolas of coal a year to be delivered to municipal buildings and schools in the area. Those were unloaded directly from gondola to truck and delivered, also a feature of the house track.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Miller, Andrew S.
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:27 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Unloading Gondolas was:Coal In Gondolas Etc


It as been my contention for some time that the low side gondola was
done in by the minimum wage law!

regards,

Andy Miller


________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of wmcclark1980
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 4:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Unloading Gondolas was:Coal In Gondolas
Etc



Not just high school kids. In Tony Thompson's book "Southern
Pacific
Freight Cars, Volume 1: Gondolas and Stock Cars" there's a Chet
McCoid
photo taken April 10, 1952 in San Saba, Texas showing some
well-past
high school guys hand unloading a gondola of what appears to be
sand.
I sure wouldn't want to be helping them <g>.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike and List,
>
> Coal was loaded into boxcars even in Indiana. I have a plan
for a
> new coal mine tipple being built on the Milw (possibly also
joint
> with Monon or C&EI) in the late 1950's and one track has a
boxcar
loader.
>
> As for unloading flat bottom gons, a shovel and a high school
kid
> working cheap are just fine. I have a friend, who is a baby
boomer,
> and his first paying job, off the farm in Wisconsin, was a
Saturday
> with a scoop shovel, unloading a gon of coal at the local
coal
> dealer. this was in the mid 1960's.
>
> current readers tend to forget in the classic era of this
list, hand
> shoveling or hand unloading of product was very common. Labor
was
> cheaper and more ready to tackle these sort of jobs.
>
> Ted
<snip the rest>


Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Steve;
Was there a small trestle to elevate the cars enough that they could be
unloaded using a small chute (like opening up alternating doors on a Santa Fe
drop bottom gon), or did they have to shovel the entire car up and over the
side? Those hatches look high, and those working it must've been awfully
tired at the end of the day!

Thanks for the nice link,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Steve
Sandifer
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:48 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Unloading Gondolas was:Coal In Gondolas Etc

All over Iowa and Kansas you will find track side coal sheds like this one:
http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Howard/Hamilton/Coal/Index.htm
A Gondola would be parked on one side, the roof hatches of the shed opened,
and the coal was shoveled by hand into it. The hardest part was getting one
cut from top to bottom. Thereafter unloading was easier. These bins were
usually on the house track and make an easy industry to add that takes little
space on a layout. http://users2.ev1.net/~jssand/SFJct/CoOpC.htm

I visited with the owner of the grain elevator in Moline, KS. He ordered
about 3 gondolas of coal a year to be delivered to municipal buildings and
schools in the area. Those were unloaded directly from gondola to truck and
delivered, also a feature of the house track.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX
77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Miller, Andrew S.
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:27 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Unloading Gondolas was:Coal In Gondolas Etc


It as been my contention for some time that the low side gondola was
done in by the minimum wage law!

regards,

Andy Miller


________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of wmcclark1980
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 4:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Unloading Gondolas was:Coal In Gondolas
Etc



Not just high school kids. In Tony Thompson's book "Southern
Pacific
Freight Cars, Volume 1: Gondolas and Stock Cars" there's a Chet
McCoid
photo taken April 10, 1952 in San Saba, Texas showing some
well-past
high school guys hand unloading a gondola of what appears to be
sand.
I sure wouldn't want to be helping them <g>.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike and List,
>
> Coal was loaded into boxcars even in Indiana. I have a plan
for a
> new coal mine tipple being built on the Milw (possibly also
joint
> with Monon or C&EI) in the late 1950's and one track has a
boxcar
loader.
>
> As for unloading flat bottom gons, a shovel and a high school
kid
> working cheap are just fine. I have a friend, who is a baby
boomer,
> and his first paying job, off the farm in Wisconsin, was a
Saturday
> with a scoop shovel, unloading a gon of coal at the local
coal
> dealer. this was in the mid 1960's.
>
> current readers tend to forget in the classic era of this
list, hand
> shoveling or hand unloading of product was very common. Labor
was
> cheaper and more ready to tackle these sort of jobs.
>
> Ted
<snip the rest>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










Yahoo! Groups Links


Steve Sandifer <jssand@...>
 

Shovel, shovel, shovel.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 6:13 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Unloading Gondolas was:Coal In Gondolas Etc


Steve;
Was there a small trestle to elevate the cars enough that they could be
unloaded using a small chute (like opening up alternating doors on a Santa Fe
drop bottom gon), or did they have to shovel the entire car up and over the
side? Those hatches look high, and those working it must've been awfully
tired at the end of the day!

Thanks for the nice link,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Steve
Sandifer
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:48 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Unloading Gondolas was:Coal In Gondolas Etc

All over Iowa and Kansas you will find track side coal sheds like this one:
http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Howard/Hamilton/Coal/Index.htm
A Gondola would be parked on one side, the roof hatches of the shed opened,
and the coal was shoveled by hand into it. The hardest part was getting one
cut from top to bottom. Thereafter unloading was easier. These bins were
usually on the house track and make an easy industry to add that takes little
space on a layout. http://users2.ev1.net/~jssand/SFJct/CoOpC.htm

I visited with the owner of the grain elevator in Moline, KS. He ordered
about 3 gondolas of coal a year to be delivered to municipal buildings and
schools in the area. Those were unloaded directly from gondola to truck and
delivered, also a feature of the house track.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX
77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Miller, Andrew S.
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:27 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Unloading Gondolas was:Coal In Gondolas Etc

It as been my contention for some time that the low side gondola was
done in by the minimum wage law!

regards,

Andy Miller

________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of wmcclark1980
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 4:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Unloading Gondolas was:Coal In Gondolas
Etc

Not just high school kids. In Tony Thompson's book "Southern
Pacific
Freight Cars, Volume 1: Gondolas and Stock Cars" there's a Chet
McCoid
photo taken April 10, 1952 in San Saba, Texas showing some
well-past
high school guys hand unloading a gondola of what appears to be
sand.
I sure wouldn't want to be helping them <g>.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike and List,
>
> Coal was loaded into boxcars even in Indiana. I have a plan
for a
> new coal mine tipple being built on the Milw (possibly also
joint
> with Monon or C&EI) in the late 1950's and one track has a
boxcar
loader.
>
> As for unloading flat bottom gons, a shovel and a high school
kid
> working cheap are just fine. I have a friend, who is a baby
boomer,
> and his first paying job, off the farm in Wisconsin, was a
Saturday
> with a scoop shovel, unloading a gon of coal at the local
coal
> dealer. this was in the mid 1960's.
>
> current readers tend to forget in the classic era of this
list, hand
> shoveling or hand unloading of product was very common. Labor
was
> cheaper and more ready to tackle these sort of jobs.
>
> Ted
<snip the rest>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Malcolm H. Houck
 

Some roads, D&H, MEC, CNJ regularly used the very low side gondolas for coal,
and indeed they were simply shoveled clean. In some simple references they
were called "Shovel Cars..........."

Many small trackside businesses had coal bins that opened directly to the
track. The shovelers bailed the coal directly into the awaiting bins in those
instances.

I can recall shovel cars being unloaded at a dealer siding, Preston Coal, in
Lowell, Mass., as late as the early 1970s. After the first of the Middle East
oil shortages (ca. 1973) there was a huge rush for alternative sources of home
heat. Then, cannel coal, in the large layered and stratified chucks was
shipped into Preston Coal in the more customarily seen high side gondolas, and in
addition to the low side shovel cars. Those big cannel coal chunks were
unloaded by hand!

Mal Houck