AT&SF reefers


Fred Mullins
 

Folks,
Would Santa Fe wood/steel reefers made it to the east coast? Mainly
tidewater area of VA.? I'm trying to figure out if I can use some red
caboose kits I saw. Would like to know if I could use them on my A&D
railway. I know we had some meat packing plants(pigs) in my area but
can't find any photos to support it?
Thanks
Fred Mullins
modeling the Atlantic & Danville Railway


Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Fred,

Meat Reefers were generally owned or leased long term by shippers. SFRD's reefers were almost all for the fresh fruit and vegetable trade. Any reefers on the A&D would have most likely been Meat Reefers owned by leasing companies like GATX (including SRLX cars), or packers like Armour, Hormel, Cudahy, etc.. Who were the meat packers who shipped on the A&D? By the mid-1950's when the A&D declared independence from the SOU, a lot of the transport of meat was by truck.

Tim Gilbert

Fred Mullins wrote:

Folks,
Would Santa Fe wood/steel reefers made it to the east coast? Mainly
tidewater area of VA.? I'm trying to figure out if I can use some red
caboose kits I saw. Would like to know if I could use them on my A&D
railway. I know we had some meat packing plants(pigs) in my area but
can't find any photos to support it?
Thanks
Fred Mullins
modeling the Atlantic & Danville Railway


Fred Mullins
 

Tim,
Thanks for the response. As far as meat packers I think none were
served directly by rail, but I figure some may have loaded a reefer at
a team track or from a cold storage fac trackside? I know the A&D
served one cold storage in suffolk.
Fred Mullins
modeling the Atlantic & Danville Railway


Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Fred,

That team track business would have been classified as Originated Animal Products' tonnage. In 1950, the A&D originated eight tons of Animal Products; that's one carload.

Tim Gilbert

Fred Mullins wrote:

Tim,
Thanks for the response. As far as meat packers I think none were
served directly by rail, but I figure some may have loaded a reefer at
a team track or from a cold storage fac trackside? I know the A&D
served one cold storage in suffolk.
Fred Mullins
modeling the Atlantic & Danville Railway


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 11, 2006, at 6:12 PM, Fred Mullins wrote:

Would Santa Fe wood/steel reefers made it to the east coast? Mainly
tidewater area of VA.? I'm trying to figure out if I can use some red
caboose kits I saw. Would like to know if I could use them on my A&D
railway. I know we had some meat packing plants(pigs) in my area but
can't find any photos to support it?
Tim Gilbert has already responded regarding the likelihood of meat reefer traffic on the A&D. I will add that (1) the Santa Fe owned only a handful of reefers equipped to carry meat and they were in dedicated on-line service and (2) Red Caboose makes no HO scale reefers that are even close to correct models of SFRD cars, never mind how they may be painted and lettered. SFRD wood reefers are accurately modeled only by Westerfield and Sunshine, SFRD steel reefers are accurately modeled only by Intermountain and Sunshine. Other mfrs. offer reefers with SFRD paint/lettering, but the models themselves are bogus.

Richard Hendrickson


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

SFRD steel reefers are accurately modeled
only by Intermountain and Sunshine<

Oops, And should we add the new Athearn 50' reefer <VBG>. That is if you get the one correct paint scheme.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Jon, regarding the Athearn Reefer, I was under the impression that all the
schemes were accurate. My comments are made in reference to an email from
Richard Hendrickson on April 22,2006 which I copied below.
"First, only the "Super Chief" cars from Athearn will be in the as-built
lettering scheme with early straight line map, periods in the reporting
marks, and 6-40 new date. The models with the other four slogans will
represent cars repainted in the mid-1940s and will have A T S F without
reporting marks, the later map with "Ship," and appropriate reweigh
station symbols and dates. At least some of these repainted cars would
have still been around with maps/slogans ca. 1953/'54. Second, at some
point in the not-too-distant future, Athearn will issue another
production run of the models with the 1947-1959 style slogans and "Ship
and Travel..." replacing the maps (and the post-'59 giant herald scheme
as well). Meanwhile, those who simply can't wait can buy undecs and
letter them with Champ's excellent Santa Fe reefer decal sets, which
include all the appropriate data."


Or is only 1 correct for you since time stopped in 1941? I am waiting to
pick up one of the later Ship and travel schemes.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Brain,
This from the review on the SFRH&MS site;

"Athearn has made this model available in a number of passenger train slogans. As Jordan reports, only the Super Chief is correct as delivered. The later Ship and Travel slogan for modelers of the early 50s should be available at the end of 2007 or early 2008."


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian J Carlson" <brian@bluemoon.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] AT&SF reefers


Jon, regarding the Athearn Reefer, I was under the impression that all the
schemes were accurate. My comments are made in reference to an email from
Richard Hendrickson on April 22,2006 which I copied below.
"First, only the "Super Chief" cars from Athearn will be in the as-built
lettering scheme with early straight line map, periods in the reporting
marks, and 6-40 new date. The models with the other four slogans will
represent cars repainted in the mid-1940s and will have A T S F without
reporting marks, the later map with "Ship," and appropriate reweigh
station symbols and dates. At least some of these repainted cars would
have still been around with maps/slogans ca. 1953/'54. Second, at some
point in the not-too-distant future, Athearn will issue another
production run of the models with the 1947-1959 style slogans and "Ship
and Travel..." replacing the maps (and the post-'59 giant herald scheme
as well). Meanwhile, those who simply can't wait can buy undecs and
letter them with Champ's excellent Santa Fe reefer decal sets, which
include all the appropriate data."


Or is only 1 correct for you since time stopped in 1941? I am waiting to
pick up one of the later Ship and travel schemes.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY





Yahoo! Groups Links






Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Jon, That doesn't disagree with what Richard posted in April and I copied in
my last email, but since you model 1941, I guess you need the Super Chief
car.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Miller" <atsf@inow.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] AT&SF reefers


Brain,
This from the review on the SFRH&MS site;

"Athearn has made this model available in a number of passenger train
slogans. As Jordan reports, only the Super Chief is correct as delivered.
The later Ship and Travel slogan for modelers of the early 50s should be
available at the end of 2007 or early 2008."


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian J Carlson" <brian@bluemoon.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] AT&SF reefers


Jon, regarding the Athearn Reefer, I was under the impression that all
the
schemes were accurate. My comments are made in reference to an email
from
Richard Hendrickson on April 22,2006 which I copied below.
"First, only the "Super Chief" cars from Athearn will be in the as-built
lettering scheme with early straight line map, periods in the reporting
marks, and 6-40 new date. The models with the other four slogans will
represent cars repainted in the mid-1940s and will have A T S F without
reporting marks, the later map with "Ship," and appropriate reweigh
station symbols and dates. At least some of these repainted cars would
have still been around with maps/slogans ca. 1953/'54. Second, at some
point in the not-too-distant future, Athearn will issue another
production run of the models with the 1947-1959 style slogans and "Ship
and Travel..." replacing the maps (and the post-'59 giant herald scheme
as well). Meanwhile, those who simply can't wait can buy undecs and
letter them with Champ's excellent Santa Fe reefer decal sets, which
include all the appropriate data."


Or is only 1 correct for you since time stopped in 1941? I am waiting
to
pick up one of the later Ship and travel schemes.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY





Yahoo! Groups Links









Yahoo! Groups Links







Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Brian,
What that says is that the Scout, Chief, El Capitan, and Grand Canyon (if they have the map on them) are not correct. Those names are correct with the Ship and Travel slogan which replaced the map (which Athearn will do in the future). If this is incorrect please correct me.
What Athearn is doing is what prototype modelers have long asked for. Do a correct car with at least some correct paint schemes. Paint it whatever else schemes they wish to sell the product. Just so we know what's right and what's wrong.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Jon,
I went back to the best source information on this subject, Santa Fe,
Railway Rolling Stock Series - Vol. 2, Refrigerator cars. The book does say
that all 100 cars got the Super Chief Scheme when built. However, back in
April when these cars were discussed on the list. Richard Hendrickson, said
the following on Friday 4-21.

"All of the Santa Fe Rr-30 class refrigerator cars were delivered with
50' early straight line maps (i.e., without the word "Ship") and "Super
Chief" slogans. Some were repainted before mid-1947 with other slogans
and those cars had the later 50' straight line maps which included the
word "Ship." Athearn has all the information necessary to produce both
the as-built and the later repainted versions, with - in each case -
correct car numbers, data, and reweigh symbols/dates.

No doubt Athearn will eventually offer these kits with the post-1947
slogans and "Ship & Travel...," as well as the post-1959 giant herald
stenciling, and I'm confident that, when the time comes, they will
research those with equal care."

Apparently some were repainted before 1947 with additional slogans and the
later map. Hopefully Athearn used Richard's information correctly and all
the currently available models are accurate. Your statement from earlier
today, "As Jordan reports, only the Super Chief is correct as delivered." is
also correct.

If I am mis-interpreting Richard's statements, than I apologize.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


David Ball
 

HI Jon

The Scout, Chief, El Capitan, and Grand Canyon with maps are correct for the
the RR-30's if they were repainted before 1947.

If you read the review you will see it also states:
"The rest are non-correct as delivered schemes for the car, unless one was
repainted for some reason between 1941 and 1946-7"

As Richard assisted Ahearn with these models, and has proclaimed several
times that there were cars repainted with slogan other than the Super Chief
but still with the maps (in this case the last iteration of the straight
line map), and that the ones model represent those specific cars, I tend to
believe him.

Cheers

David Ball


_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Miller
Sent: Sunday, 13 August 2006 10:40 a.m.
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] AT&SF reefers



Brian,
What that says is that the Scout, Chief, El Capitan, and Grand Canyon
(if they have the map on them) are not correct. Those names are correct
with the Ship and Travel slogan which replaced the map (which Athearn will
do in the future). If this is incorrect please correct me.
What Athearn is doing is what prototype modelers have long asked for.
Do a correct car with at least some correct paint schemes. Paint it
whatever else schemes they wish to sell the product. Just so we know what's
right and what's wrong.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS






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Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

"All of the Santa Fe Rr-30 class refrigerator cars were delivered with
50' early straight line maps (i.e., without the word "Ship") and "Super
Chief" slogans. Some were repainted before mid-1947 with other slogans
and those cars had the later 50' straight line maps which included the
word "Ship." <

Don't want to beat a dead horse here but if I understand the above statement
those that were repainted before mid-1947 with other slogans _should_ have the word "ship". The Scout car shown on the SFRH&MS site does not have the word "ship" and I'm not sure if it has the later map or not (I haven't seen the map side of the other cars other than the Scout). As to the map the only thing I see is the word Chicago is on top of the line instead of under it on the early maps.
I believe if the above is correct then the Scout car is incorrect on the map side.
Richard would have given Athearn all the correct information but that doesn't mean they used it. Richard will need to answer this/these question/s.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:
<snip for brevity>. SFRD wood reefers are accurately modeled only by
Westerfield and Sunshine, <snip>
Richard Hendrickson
I see that the Sunshine wood reefers were discontinued in 2002. Is
this due to the availability of the Accurail reefers? If the Accurail
is close enough to cause Sunshine to discontinue theirs, then that's
good news for budget-minded modelers. However, I understand that the
door is one foot too narrow, and the fishbelly underframe is wrong.
There are probably other differences between this kit and the SFRD
prototype that I am not aware of. However, it's a pretty nice model
for a shake-the-box kit, IMHO.
The Westerfield model is of a truss rod reefer, with Bohn ventilators.
High on MY "Westerfield Wish List", but those of you choosing to model
post-1942 will have to live without this very cool car. (Unless you
can model the cars converted to ice service, am I right in thinking
they never went off-line?)
Dean Payne


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hello Dean,

The Sunshine wood-sheathed SFRD reefers were the cars based on the ARA
boxcar design, with straight underframes, and nothing like the Accurail
model. Sorry you missed them.

so long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Tony Thompson
 

Dean Payne wrote:
I see that the Sunshine wood reefers were discontinued in 2002. Is this due to the availability of the Accurail reefers? If the Accurail is close enough to cause Sunshine to discontinue theirs, then that's good news for budget-minded modelers. However, I understand that the door is one foot too narrow, and the fishbelly underframe is wrong.
Dean, the wider door alone on SFRD cars is a serious issue; it is most distinctive and you certainly cannot mix correct ones and incorrect ones on a layout. I suppose if you have all incorrect ones, most people won't notice, but I can't include members of this list in that "most" group. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@...>
wrote:

Dean Payne wrote:
I see that the Sunshine wood reefers were discontinued in 2002.
Is
this due to the availability of the Accurail reefers? If the
Accurail
is close enough to cause Sunshine to discontinue theirs, then
that's
good news for budget-minded modelers. However, I understand that
the
door is one foot too narrow, and the fishbelly underframe is
wrong.

Dean, the wider door alone on SFRD cars is a serious issue;
it is
most distinctive and you certainly cannot mix correct ones and
incorrect ones on a layout. I suppose if you have all incorrect
ones,
most people won't notice, but I can't include members of this list
in
that "most" group. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

I have heard that it might be possible to scrape off the molded-on
hinges and replace them with Grandt Line parts (from the NEB&W web
site). Of course, you'd start with an undec, besides, they only make
one car # in the early paint scheme (or any SFRD scheme, for that
matter), so you'd need to paint and letter anyway. However, Andy S.
informs us the rest of the car isn't all that close, so it's a moot
point. Thanks, Andy, for confirming that. The Sunshine models
retailed for $25, what is the chance I'll find one for that on ebay?
For any price? Darn, I'm sorry I missed them too, Andy! I'd better
not wait too long to order my Westerfield kit!
Dean Payne


pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Dean Payne:
The Sunshine models retailed for $25, what is the chance I'll find
one for that on ebay? For any price? Darn, I'm sorry I missed them
too, Andy! I'd better not wait too long to order my Westerfield kit!
Those two kits (16.1 and 16.2) are among the best Sunshine has done.
I've spoken to Martin on several occasions about reintroducing them,
but he doesn't seem to be able to generate any enthusiasm for it.
They'd be great candidates for one-piece bodies.

Tom Madden


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Dean,

The Accurail reefers are based on a BREX prototype, and are nothing like SFRD cars. Within the limits of mass production for the general market, they are pretty good models, and can be detailed up quite nicely. And yes, the door is too narrow for SFRD.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Dean Payne wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
<snip for brevity>. SFRD wood reefers are accurately modeled only by
Westerfield and Sunshine, <snip> Richard Hendrickson

I see that the Sunshine wood reefers were discontinued in 2002. Is this due to the availability of the Accurail reefers? If the Accurail is close enough to cause Sunshine to discontinue theirs, then that's good news for budget-minded modelers. However, I understand that the door is one foot too narrow, and the fishbelly underframe is wrong. There are probably other differences between this kit and the SFRD prototype that I am not aware of. However, it's a pretty nice model for a shake-the-box kit, IMHO . . . .