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Muncie & Western Boxcar help
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Edward Dabler
In a message dated 9/22/2006 5:54:59 P.M. Central Standard Time,
brian@... writes: I made an impulse buy this week at the LHS, and picked up a Mather Muncie & Western Boxcar. I've found 160 of them in my 1955 ORER but they are not in my 1959 ORER. Can someone please check a late 1957 or early 1958 ORER to see if the 1200 series in listed. Thanks. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY Brian The Mather cars are not listed in the January 1958 ORER. Ed Dabler P.E. |
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Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
I made an impulse buy this week at the LHS, and picked up a Mather Muncie &
Western Boxcar. I've found 160 of them in my 1955 ORER but they are not in my 1959 ORER. Can someone please check a late 1957 or early 1958 ORER to see if the 1200 series in listed. Thanks. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY |
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Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
Thanks Ed, That's a bummer. Does anyone have the July or Oct 1957 copies to
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check. My layout is set in August 1957. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message -----
From: <rrfaned@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Muncie & Western Boxcar help & Western Boxcar. I've found 160 of them in my 1955 ORER but they are notin my 1959 ORER. Can someone please check a late 1957 or early 1958 ORER tosee if the 1200 series in listed. Thanks. |
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Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
Brian,
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According to the 1959 MOODY'S TRANSPORTATION MANUAL, the Muncie & Western on 12/31/1958 (& 12/31/1962 per the 1963 MOODY's) owned two locomotives and leased 125 box cars from, I assume, Mather. On April 27th, 1955, the North American Car Corp. acquired the Mather Humane Stock Transportation Co.. Apparently, the lease of the 125 boxcars was transferred to North American. Can you trace the M&W cars to North American in your ORER's? Tim Gilbert Brian J Carlson wrote: Thanks Ed, That's a bummer. Does anyone have the July or Oct 1957 copies to |
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Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
Tim the 125 boxcars on the MWR in 1959 were steel cars in the 1301-1425
series, and leased from the Chicago Freight Car Leasing Co. They were not Mather cars. I don't see any Mather Box cars listed in North Americans 1959 ORER entries. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY |
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Ian Cranstone
Brian, the 10/57 ORER shows 75 cars in the series 1201-1275, so this
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should render the 7/57 listing moot (I think I have that issue around here too, but obviously not on the shelf where it belongs). I also see 85 apparently identical cars listed as 1101-1185, and 26 taller cars listed as 1276-1300. Ian Cranstone Osgoode, Ontario, Canada lamontc@... http://freightcars.nakina.net http://siberians.nakina.net On 22-Sep-06, at 9:50 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:
Thanks Ed, That's a bummer. Does anyone have the July or Oct 1957 |
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Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
Thanks Ian and Ed, it looks like I can be safe with the Mather Muncie and
Western car, and yes it was a purchase inspired by having run the incorrect Train Miniature car (I think it was TM) on a friends layout as a youngster in the 1980's . For those interested it appears the Mather cars lasted until the end of 1957 but were replaced by other steel boxcars in 1958. Thanks to everyone who responded so quickly. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY |
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Schuyler Larrabee
Close enough, Brian. Just run it as an empty car, waybilled to return to agt, M&W RR, Muncie, Ind.
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Anybody (other than me, of course) who gives you s*** about it, you tell them it's on its way home to be scrapped. SGL -----Original Message----- |
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Ed Hawkins
On Sep 22, 2006, at 6:50 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:
Thanks Ed, That's a bummer. Does anyone have the July or Oct 1957Brian, I don't have July or Oct '57 ORER, but the April 1957 ORER lists 75 cars for the MWR series 1201-1275 as being in service. A copy of the Oct. '57 ORER is at the Museum of Transportation. If no one else can provide the data, I'll try to get the data for you. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Sep 22, 2006, at 9:11 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Close enough, Brian. Just run it as an empty car, waybilled to returnHand me that lame story, Schuyler, and (unsuccessfully trying to suppress a superior smirk) I'll point out that "home" for the MWR's Mather cars wasn't Muncie, IN, but – as for all Mather cars – Chicago Ridge, IL. Richard Hendrickson |
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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
"Just run it as an empty car, waybilled to return to agt, M&W RR, Muncie, Ind. Anybody (other than me, of course) who gives you s*** about it, you tell them it's on its way home to be scrapped." Richard Hendrickson replied: "Hand me that lame story, Schuyler, and (unsuccessfully trying to suppress a superior smirk) I'll point out that "home" for the MWR's Mather cars wasn't Muncie, IN, but – as for all Mather cars – Chicago Ridge, IL." Additionally, even by the late 1950s, if the car's going back to Chicago Ridge, it's as likely to be leased back out to another customer by North American. Ben Hom |
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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Brian Carlson wrote:
"...it was a purchase inspired by having run the incorrect Train Miniature car (I think it was TM) on a friends layout as a youngster in the 1980's ." Train-Miniature #8056, lettered as MWR 1247 on their SS boxcar kit. (Information courtesy of Storey Lindsay's All-Time Train-Miniature kit list posted on the pay side of the RPI website at http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Kits/T-M-kits.php#Storey% 20Lindsay's%20All-Time%20List%20of%20Kits ) Ben Hom |
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Schuyler Larrabee
Schuyler Larrabee wrote: I'll point out to both Richard, and Ben, that this list has rules about personal criticisms. And I take both of the above rather personally, the first in particular. While I do support the goals of modeling freight cars as accurately as possible, I think that the goal of absoloute verisimiltude in operations is one that is essentially unachievable. When our towns are fifteen or twenty feet from each other instead of 600 or 800 feet, which is what about the or twelve miles would require at scale, then it's all a game. I'm sure that there was an agent at Muncie, in any event, so maybe the scrapping is't appropriate, and I appreciate (a >bit< more) Ben's correction, but the original point remains: Except for those who have the ego necessary to appoint themselves "Prototype Police" which wasn't very funny when it was new, and gets less so as it goes on, what it says on a waybill is one of the least important things to pick at. Mr Carlson's original question was a reasonable one, and I was impressed with the speed with which some members offered solid historical information. All I was saying is that there comes a point when you can rationalize things if you need to, and nobody much has the right to tell you you're wrong . . . except youself. Now, Brian, what is the number on the car? Since we have such research wizards on this list, can they tell you that particular car was still a M&W car? The ORER's carry such information. SGL |
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Schuyler Larrabee
Hand me that lame story, Schuyler, and (unsuccessfully tryingOne other thing, here, Richard. While "home" for the MWR may well have been Chicago Ridge, I've seen dozens, at least, of cars from many railroads with stencilled directions on them which say something to the effect of "Return to agt, XYZ Railroad, West Godforgot, MN" That town is not the "home" destination of the XYZ, it's simply the place where that car is to go for a specific purpose. "superior smirk" indeed. SGL |
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Tony Thompson
Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
One other thing, here, Richard. While "home" for the MWR may well have been Chicago Ridge, I'veSchuyler is right here, of course, and such "placarded "return-to" directions were common for cars in assigned service, though one might doubt that a leased car would be have such an assignment, unless specially equipped. "superior smirk" indeed.Calm down, Schuyler. You're fanning awfully hard on that tiny spark, but most likely no flames will result. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
The number on the car, 1204, falls in the correct series, however, the
entire series wasn't completely filled at the later date so unless someone shows me a picture or accounting log book from Mather of each and every car that was active on the M&W in August 1957, I am content that at least it is in the number series. Being that these cars were yellow, i.e. eye-catching, and somewhat famous, I bet Bob's Photo's has a few and I could look to see if he has any photo dated post Aug 1957, but I am not "that" anal. As I said earlier this was a "feel good" purchase. However, even a "feel good" purchase needs to be correct for my era. Two Mather boxcars out of a fleet of nearly 500 is enough for me. I'll add, I have no wish to determine if that is statistically accurate. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Sep 23, 2006, at 1:43 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
I'll begin by apologizing for my smart-ass "superior smirk" remark, which was ill-considered and unwarranted.Hand me that lame story, Schuyler, and (unsuccessfully tryingOne other thing, here, Richard. While "home" for the MWR may well have been Chicago Ridge, I've Now, as to Schuyler's observations about special routing instructions, there is a lot of photographic evidence of the MWR cars, as their colorful P/L tended to attract attention; I have nineteen photos of them in my own collection. And none of these photos show routing instructions of that kind, nor is there any reason to think they might. The purpose of the MWR cars was to carry Mason jars from Muncie to wherever they were consigned and return promptly (empty, if necessary) to Muncie to be re-loaded. What's the point in speculatng, much less indulging in far-fetched rationalizations, which are entirely unsupported by the available evidence? Richard Hendrickson |
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Brian J Carlson wrote:
the 125 boxcars on the MWR in 1959 were steel cars in theI believe they were ex-Santa Fe USRA rebuilds. I've seen a picture of one somewhere, perhaps in the Classic Freight Cars series. They were painted yellow. Tim O'Connor |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Sep 26, 2006, at 11:06 AM, Tim O'Connor cf5250 wrote:
USRA rebuilds, yes. ex-Santa Fe, no. In fact, they were ex-Rock Island. Richard Hendrickson |
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Barry Bennett <Barrybennetttoo@...>
Hmmmmmm
All this natter about Muncie & Western boxcars has now made me intrigued as to the best place to find details of them. Are there any easily accessible sites wher I can satisfy idle curiosity without going to the trouble and expense of obtaining books? Cheers Barry Bennett Coventry, England |
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