fAIRFAX SFRD CARS


Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

CAR DATE TRAIN CONTENTS STYLE CUSTOMER
SFRD 23543 6/5/47 72 refer meat RS 41'1
SFRD 25069 2/26/48 99 beer RS 41'2 refer Fullerton Bottling
SFRD 25069 2/26/48 yard beer mty rs refer Fullerton Bottling
SFRD 25218 6/19/47 72 meat RS 41'2 refer
SFRD 25465 7/11/47 73 meat RS 41'2 refer
SFRD 26449 9/4/47 72 meat RS 41'2 refer
SFRD 32448 6/26/47 99 beer RS 41'5 refer Fullerton Bottling
SFRD 32448 6/26/47 yard beer mty rs refer Fullertn Bottling
SFRD 34265 7/31/47 72 meat made mty RS 41'5 refer
SFRD 481767 9/25/47 72 meat ?

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


tchenoweth@...
 

It was my understanding that Santa Fe's SFRM cars were meat reefers with
racks for hanging meat. They may be outside the time period of the group, but I
have a photo of one car taken in 1962. I think the book that John Moore is
working on should shed some light on these. Tom Chenoweth


Steve Sandifer <jssand@...>
 

This interests me a great deal. Everything I have ever read says the ATSF had no meat reefers (I suppose meaning hanging meat reefers) and this is the first documentation I have seen or ATSF reefers being used in meat service. I suppose this is cut meat being sent LCL, is that correct? This being the case, the MSTL took empty ATSF reefers and put them into LCL service.

Any more explanation?
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@swcentral.org
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Clark Propst
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: [STMFC] fAIRFAX SFRD CARS


CAR DATE TRAIN CONTENTS STYLE CUSTOMER
SFRD 23543 6/5/47 72 refer meat RS 41'1
SFRD 25069 2/26/48 99 beer RS 41'2 refer Fullerton Bottling
SFRD 25069 2/26/48 yard beer mty rs refer Fullerton Bottling
SFRD 25218 6/19/47 72 meat RS 41'2 refer
SFRD 25465 7/11/47 73 meat RS 41'2 refer
SFRD 26449 9/4/47 72 meat RS 41'2 refer
SFRD 32448 6/26/47 99 beer RS 41'5 refer Fullerton Bottling
SFRD 32448 6/26/47 yard beer mty rs refer Fullertn Bottling
SFRD 34265 7/31/47 72 meat made mty RS 41'5 refer
SFRD 481767 9/25/47 72 meat ?

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Sandifer" <jssand@...> wrote:

This interests me a great deal. Everything I have ever read says the
ATSF had no meat reefers (I suppose meaning hanging meat reefers) and
this is the first documentation I have seen or ATSF reefers being used
in meat service. I suppose this is cut meat being sent LCL, is that
correct? This being the case, the MSTL took empty ATSF reefers and
put them into LCL service.

Any more explanation?
Hold the phone! We're talking canned meat here, not cut meat. In the
era we're talking, there was no way to ship cut meat without hanging
it, and you can't hang meat in a produce reefer; you need meat rails,
which makes the car RSM under the AAR mechanical codes. Since most the
cars being talked about are RS, they are not carrying hanging meat.

They are also not in LCL service, just because the agent opened them
and resealed them. Keep in mind that the tariffs for most commodities
allowed multiple consignees; the car went the first, who removed his
portion of the shipment, was resealed and went to the second, and so
on. Sounds like LCL, right? But it's not, as it is moving as a full
carload under the multiple consignee provisions of the carload tariff.
The LCL tariff would be a higher rate.

And, in response to another message, I thought that car heaters were
lowered into the empty ice bunkers. In that case, the car seal didn't
need to be broken to service them.

Dennis


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Hi:

This must've been brand new in 1962 because in mid-1961 there were no R_Ms at all listed for ATSF, nor a SFRM reporting mark. One reporting mark website claims that mark did not appear until 1965, FWIW.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: tchenoweth@aol.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS

It was my understanding that Santa Fe's SFRM cars were meat reefers with
racks for hanging meat. They may be outside the time period of the group, but I
have a photo of one car taken in 1962. I think the book that John Moore is
working on should shed some light on these. Tom Chenoweth


.


Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Agree with all with a few comments. Yes, the heaters
were hung in the ice bunkers. In the case of a RB car
they would have to go inside. I think BAR had RB cars
that were constructed with a heater area that could be
accessed from the outside. CN and CP also?

Might be putting a little too much weight on the herald
painted on URTX RS or RB cars as to who is leasing them.
I would say that the road was leasing the cars at the
time they were shopped and painted but if the lease
expired URTX would usually let the cars go as free
runners until they found another lease or needed
shopping. As long as they are still getting time-mileage
settlements those cars are going to be out there running.

With the inertia of, doing things the same way all the
time, even with a car surplus foreign or private owner
free runners would probably still be used even if a
carrier had enough of it's own cars. The "Q" had a fair
number of center sidings between Savanna and Dayton's
Bluff. In slack periods these would be filled with WFE,
FGE,BRE RS cars. While this was a good geographic plan
in those days getting 50 empties from Wisconsin to
Washington was not an overnight proposition. If there
was an unexpected surge in Apple or Pear loadings in
the PNW the GN and NP would be loading anything. The
GN had the edge on the NP since their cars were pre-
positioned. Meanwhile the NP would be trying to get
MDT's and NRC's from Kensington or wherever they were
stored, at times even from the BAR. I can recall large
groups of cars moving East and West as the needs shifted.

One incident comes to mind. The "Q" required that a slip
bill be made out for every empty. Got a big string of
MDT's and NRC's for PFE loading. When they got to
Galesburg PFE cut off the flow. The "Q" gave the cars
back to the NYC at Zearing to shorten the time-mileage
charge. About two weeks later I got the same cars back
on my slip bills. They had gone as far East as Selkirk
and then were sent back West. This time they did manage
to make it to UP rails.

There was one other incident where the IHB had pulled
80 cars out of Kensington, 40 for the NP and 40 for the
IC. While the paperwork went the right places the cars
were reversed. After I found out from the IHB the IC was
involved chased down a Chief Clerk at Markham. He admitted
they had the same problem and agreed that we would just
trade cars. This was in the middle of the night with no
Management involvement at all. Just the way it should be.

Russ
Hold the phone! We're talking canned meat here, not cut meat. In the
era we're talking, there was no way to ship cut meat without hanging
it, and you can't hang meat in a produce reefer; you need meat rails,
which makes the car RSM under the AAR mechanical codes. Since most the
cars being talked about are RS, they are not carrying hanging meat.

They are also not in LCL service, just because the agent opened them
and resealed them. Keep in mind that the tariffs for most commodities
allowed multiple consignees; the car went the first, who removed his
portion of the shipment, was resealed and went to the second, and so
on. Sounds like LCL, right? But it's not, as it is moving as a full
carload under the multiple consignee provisions of the carload tariff.
The LCL tariff would be a higher rate.

And, in response to another message, I thought that car heaters were
lowered into the empty ice bunkers. In that case, the car seal didn't
need to be broken to service them.

Dennis


tchenoweth@...
 

The car is SFRM Rr-56 38005 and was taken by K.B. King at San Angelo TX in
late 1962. It was shopped at WC 7 62 and the "M" looks new as does the "3800"
but not the "SFR" or "5". Your website might be in error. Tom Chenoweth


ljack70117@...
 

The heaters I have had to take care of were all set on the bottom of the bunker and NOT HUNG in the car.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia.net

On Oct 2, 2006, at 10:27 PM, Russ Strodtz wrote:

Agree with all with a few comments. Yes, the heaters
were hung in the ice bunkers. In the case of a RB car
they would have to go inside. I think BAR had RB cars
that were constructed with a heater area that could be
accessed from the outside. CN and CP also?

Might be putting a little too much weight on the herald
painted on URTX RS or RB cars as to who is leasing them.
I would say that the road was leasing the cars at the
time they were shopped and painted but if the lease
expired URTX would usually let the cars go as free
runners until they found another lease or needed
shopping. As long as they are still getting time-mileage
settlements those cars are going to be out there running.

With the inertia of, doing things the same way all the
time, even with a car surplus foreign or private owner
free runners would probably still be used even if a
carrier had enough of it's own cars. The "Q" had a fair
number of center sidings between Savanna and Dayton's
Bluff. In slack periods these would be filled with WFE,
FGE,BRE RS cars. While this was a good geographic plan
in those days getting 50 empties from Wisconsin to
Washington was not an overnight proposition. If there
was an unexpected surge in Apple or Pear loadings in
the PNW the GN and NP would be loading anything. The
GN had the edge on the NP since their cars were pre-
positioned. Meanwhile the NP would be trying to get
MDT's and NRC's from Kensington or wherever they were
stored, at times even from the BAR. I can recall large
groups of cars moving East and West as the needs shifted.

One incident comes to mind. The "Q" required that a slip
bill be made out for every empty. Got a big string of
MDT's and NRC's for PFE loading. When they got to
Galesburg PFE cut off the flow. The "Q" gave the cars
back to the NYC at Zearing to shorten the time-mileage
charge. About two weeks later I got the same cars back
on my slip bills. They had gone as far East as Selkirk
and then were sent back West. This time they did manage
to make it to UP rails.

There was one other incident where the IHB had pulled
80 cars out of Kensington, 40 for the NP and 40 for the
IC. While the paperwork went the right places the cars
were reversed. After I found out from the IHB the IC was
involved chased down a Chief Clerk at Markham. He admitted
they had the same problem and agreed that we would just
trade cars. This was in the middle of the night with no
Management involvement at all. Just the way it should be.

Russ
Hold the phone! We're talking canned meat here, not cut meat. In the
era we're talking, there was no way to ship cut meat without hanging
it, and you can't hang meat in a produce reefer; you need meat rails,
which makes the car RSM under the AAR mechanical codes. Since most the
cars being talked about are RS, they are not carrying hanging meat.

They are also not in LCL service, just because the agent opened them
and resealed them. Keep in mind that the tariffs for most commodities
allowed multiple consignees; the car went the first, who removed his
portion of the shipment, was resealed and went to the second, and so
on. Sounds like LCL, right? But it's not, as it is moving as a full
carload under the multiple consignee provisions of the carload tariff.
The LCL tariff would be a higher rate.

And, in response to another message, I thought that car heaters were
lowered into the empty ice bunkers. In that case, the car seal didn't
need to be broken to service them.

Dennis






Yahoo! Groups Links









Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Larry,

I guess I was using the expression that one of the
BRE/WFE men at Cicero used. While it has been a long
time I'm fairly sure that the heaters, which were
sitting in the ice bunker, were checked and fueled
by pulling them up through a hatch with a cable.

This might have been just a safety issue. What was
the Carbon Monoxide reading inside that bunker?
Were these Alcohol or Charcoal heaters?

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: ljack70117@adelphia.net
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 03 October, 2006 03:02
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS


The heaters I have had to take care of were all set on the bottom of
the bunker and NOT HUNG in the car.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia.net





On Oct 2, 2006, at 10:27 PM, Russ Strodtz wrote:

> Agree with all with a few comments. Yes, the heaters
> were hung in the ice bunkers. In the case of a RB car
> they would have to go inside. I think BAR had RB cars
> that were constructed with a heater area that could be
> accessed from the outside. CN and CP also?
>


ljack70117@...
 

see below
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia.net





On Oct 3, 2006, at 8:32 AM, Russ Strodtz wrote:

Larry,

I guess I was using the expression that one of the
BRE/WFE men at Cicero used. While it has been a long
time I'm fairly sure that the heaters, which were
sitting in the ice bunker, were checked and fueled
by pulling them up through a hatch with a cable.
I never had to remove or install one. All I ever did was turn them on or off, read the number on them. To turn them on or off there was a small drawer that you pushed in on pulled out. IIRC in was on, out was off. It was supposed to be a two man job. one man went down in to the bunker with a rope tied under his arms and one man on top so he could pull the man out of the bunker if he was over come with CO. But most of the time it was done by one man. I would open the bunker and sit with my legs in the bunker. Take a deep breath and drop down into the bunker. I would turn it on or off or write down it's number and get back out ASAP. You hold your breath while in there. CO is heavier than air so once out you could breath and not worry about it following you up out of the bunker. We never took any reading on the CO. We just knew it was there.
I do remember they took a Bum out of one car. He got in to the bunker because it was warm. The CO got him.
All of them I messed with were Charcoal.
To remove them you had to drop down in to the bunker and unhook then. They had to be secured so as not to tip over. They had a bail on top and you made sure it was up. Then from the top of the car you had a hook on a rope you dropped down in and hooked the bail and pulled it out.

This might have been just a safety issue. What was
the Carbon Monoxide reading inside that bunker?
Were these Alcohol or Charcoal heaters?

Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: ljack70117@adelphia.net
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 03 October, 2006 03:02
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS


The heaters I have had to take care of were all set on the bottom of
the bunker and NOT HUNG in the car.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia.net





On Oct 2, 2006, at 10:27 PM, Russ Strodtz wrote:

Agree with all with a few comments. Yes, the heaters
were hung in the ice bunkers. In the case of a RB car
they would have to go inside. I think BAR had RB cars
that were constructed with a heater area that could be
accessed from the outside. CN and CP also?





Yahoo! Groups Links










Tony Thompson
 

Larry Jackman wrote:
The heaters I have had to take care of were all set on the bottom of the bunker and NOT HUNG in the car.
Larry is absolutely right, at least for PFE heaters. They sat on the bunker bottom.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


John Moore <jbmnem@...>
 

Well I will answer this question but it is outside the scope of this
list which goes from 1900 to 1960.

SFRM was introduced on the Santa Fe with the conversion of ten Rr-56
mechanicla refrigerator cars with meat racks in 1962. This was
followed with the conversion of ten Rr-55 ice bunker refrigerator
cars with meat racks in 1964.

John Moore
Albuquerque



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:

Hi:

This must've been brand new in 1962 because in mid-1961 there were
no R_Ms at all listed for ATSF, nor a SFRM reporting mark. One
reporting mark website claims that mark did not appear until 1965,
FWIW.

KL


----- Original Message -----
From: tchenoweth@...
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS

It was my understanding that Santa Fe's SFRM cars were meat
reefers with
racks for hanging meat. They may be outside the time period of
the group, but I
have a photo of one car taken in 1962. I think the book that
John Moore is
working on should shed some light on these. Tom Chenoweth


.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Impossible - everything on the Internet is correct!!

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: tchenoweth@aol.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS


Your website might be in error.


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Hi:

The PRR had X53, X54, and X54A RBLs "equipped for the application of heaters."

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Strodtz
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: fAIRFAX SFRD CARS


Agree with all with a few comments. Yes, the heaters
were hung in the ice bunkers. In the case of a RB car
they would have to go inside. I think BAR had RB cars
that were constructed with a heater area that could be
accessed from the outside. CN and CP also?