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casting foundry freight cars
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mjmcguirk@...
One of the industries in Waterbury, Vt., on the CV was the Cooley-Wright Manufacturing Co. which was a casting foundry. I know they would have received foundry sand from and iron ingots. I can see the two tracks into the facility (it was originally a granite cutting shed) but can't see any freight cars in the photos I have.
Anyone have any details on what kinds of cars would have delivered materials to a small casting shop in the late steam (1950-54) era? Or some specifics on where that stuff would have come from (so I can figure out some appropriate freight cars, or at least close enough until more details become available. Thanks in advance, Marty McGuirk |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
Marty;
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The foundries in my area of interest included some small ones that received and shipped by rail. The foundries that did small iron castings used small iron pigs cast by moderate to large manufacturers like USS, J&L and others. The pigs they received were small, not like the pig pigs available commercially. Often they took the form of small pyramids or brick-shaped iron castings loaded loosely in a gon; some of them appear to have come in boxes in a boxcar, where the pigs were very small. The info I have on sand indicates that much of it came in boxes until the early to mid-50's when new covered hoppers took that on. Sand from Mapleton, PA, for example, came in box cars in the late 40's, in early covered hoppers like the H30 and H32 (it originated on the PRR) in the early 50's, then went to new H34A's in about 1955. I was told that glass and foundry users had always wanted clean, DRY sand, and that box cars were anything but.... The castings were often shipped out in boxcars, in boxes, at least in my area. One guy told me that some of the more valuable ones were dumped in straw in wooden boxes, for shipment. There was a foundry on my line of interest that operated into the 90's in this fashion, although the traffic gradually went to trucks. I wish I had more for you, Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of mjmcguirk@... Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:44 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] casting foundry freight cars One of the industries in Waterbury, Vt., on the CV was the Cooley-Wright Manufacturing Co. which was a casting foundry. I know they would have received foundry sand from and iron ingots. I can see the two tracks into the facility (it was originally a granite cutting shed) but can't see any freight cars in the photos I have. Anyone have any details on what kinds of cars would have delivered materials to a small casting shop in the late steam (1950-54) era? Or some specifics on where that stuff would have come from (so I can figure out some appropriate freight cars, or at least close enough until more details become available. Thanks in advance, Marty McGuirk Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Jason C
--- mjmcguirk@... wrote:
One of the industries in Waterbury, Vt., on the CVMarty, Casting sand could have come in D&H boxcars. Casting sand, or 'Saratoga Sand', was at one time, a consistent traffic source for the D&H. It was shipped in box cars due to it's clumping characteristics. Made it excellent for use as forms for sandcasting but a real problem in a covered hopper. There was a sand loader just north of Saratoga Springs on the mainline that John Nehrich had an article on. Also, there's been talk on the D&H group in the past couple of weeks of another sand loader/dryer on the Adirondack Branch, just south of Corinth. In your timeframe, I'd imagine that the Tichy SS car with D&H decals would be your best choice. As far as the ingots go, there was an operation in South Troy served by both the D&H and NYC I believe. Not sure if they shipped ingots outbound but it's a possibility and geographically, it's not that far from Vermont. Jason Cook New Haven, IN ____________________________________________________________________________________ We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups (http://groups.yahoo.com) |
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rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
Marty,
The foundry here made man hole covers and sheaves (pulleys) they only received coke by rail, in gondolas. Clark Propst |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Marty McGuirk wrote:
One of the industries in Waterbury, Vt., on the CV was the Cooley-Wright Manufacturing Co. which was a casting foundry. I know they would have received foundry sand from and iron ingots. I can see the two tracks into the facility (it was originally a granite cutting shed) but can't see any freight cars in the photos I have.If it's a small foundry, I'd say box cars for all of the traffic. Foundry sand was sold in bags as well as in bulk, and the pig iron (or steel ingots) could easily be shipped the same way. A gondola of pigs, or a covered hopper of sand, represents a lot of material, and an unloading challenge, relative to a box car. And finished castings would likely go out in box cars. If they make big enough castings, they could require a gondola or flat car. Anthony Thompson Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering University of California, Berkeley thompsonmarytony@... |
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--- In STMFC@..., <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:
Anyone have any details on what kinds of cars would have deliveredmaterials to a small casting shop in the late steam (1950-54) era? Or some specifics on where that stuff would have come from (so I can figure out some appropriate freight cars, or at least close enough until more details become available. I have faint recollections of a story some time back in one of the magazines where the author recounted being hired by the local foundry to empty hoppers of sand. Cold weather was bad because the wet sand would be frozen. Either these were covered hoppers that were filled with wet sand, or open hoppers where the weather made the sand wet. Sorry about my vague recollection of the story. Ted Larson |
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Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "mhrreast" <mhrreast@...> wrote:
I have faint recollections of a story some time back in one of theIt was an open car, since the story makes clear that it was of composite construction. The key point missing here is frequency. In the story it wasn't cars, it was a car. It may have been the only carload of sand that the foundry received that year. Not much of a traffic generator. Dennis |
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John Swanson <dwlscbq@...>
One product of corn processing was "foundry Starch" which was used as a binder for the sand molds. This explained just how they managed to keep the molds together for casting. Casting molten metal in wet sand would not be too advisable.
Corn starch is usually a dry product shipped in bags. hence box cars. John Swanson |
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pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
Ted Larson:
I have faint recollections of a story some time back in one of theI have little knowledge of foundry practices, except that you don't pour molten metal into wet sand molds. Did foundries typically have their own sand drying capability? If some did and some didn't, one presumes there was a market for both dry sand shipped in boxcars and "non-dry" sand shipped in hoppers. Tom Madden |
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ljack70117@...
When making a sand mold the sand HAD to be wet in order to stick together around the pattern. Then it would be dried, pattern removed and the cast done. If the mold was wet when the casting was done you would have an explosion and people could get hurt and may be even killed.
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So weather they received dry sand or wet sand the sand had to be made wet to make the mold. Thank you Larry Jackman Boca Raton FL ljack70117@... On Nov 1, 2006, at 12:55 PM, pullmanboss wrote:
Ted Larson:I have faint recollections of a story some time back in one of theI have little knowledge of foundry practices, except that you don't |
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pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
--- In STMFC@..., ljack70117@... wrote:
Thanks, Larry. Tom Madden |
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cj riley <cjriley42@...>
Correct me if I am wrong, since my days of college industrial work are way in
the past, but I seem to remember bagged powdered additives in the sand to help the cavity to hold its shape. CJ Riley --- pullmanboss <tgmadden@...> wrote: --- In STMFC@..., ljack70117@... wrote:Thanks, Larry. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited (http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited) |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
CJ Riley wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, since my days of college industrial work are way inYep. Foundry sand, when ready to use, is pretty sticky. Larry Jackman was right in saying that it is moistened to make a mold, but don't think it's just dry sand with some water. As they say on TV, don't try it that way at home. Anthony Thompson Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering University of California, Berkeley thompsonmarytony@... |
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David Karkoski <karkoskd@...>
Hi Marty,
I am not sure if this graph will come through on group mail but I'll give it a try. It represents the carload deliveries to Rochester Metal Works, a small foundry, in Rochester Indiana in 1954. As far as car types generally coke in HM, Pig Iron in GB. The table shows reporting marks for products for more detailed evaluations (PI= Pig Iron). David Karkoski Car Initial Car Number Product Group CBQ 28100 Clay PRR 54734 Clay CIW 1286 Coke IC 85635 Coke MILW 85430 Coke CIW 1163 Coke IC 84359 Coke CIW 1165 Coke MILW 89203 Coke IC 94496 Coke IC 84838 Coke MILW 82487 Coke PRR 376338 Coke NKP 77382 Coke IC 94906 Coke CBQ 79410 Coke CIW 1128 Coke CIW 1267 Coke CEI 90040 Coke CIW 1242 Coke GN 49512 Firestone ERIE 86185 Firestone N&W 47699 Lumber B&O 255432 PI DLW 69824 PI NYC 641272 PI PLE 47772 PI WLE 75265 PI NKP 77120 PI B&O 264849 PI NKP 77358 PI B&O 261318 PI NKP 77137 PI NKP 77407 PI NYC 716111 PI PLE 11398 PI WLE 75445 PI NKP 71662 PI NKP 67104 PI NKP 71099 PI PM 54620 Sand CN 507644 Sand MILW 20870 Sand NYC 119522 Sand CN 507114 Sand _____ From: mjmcguirk@... [mailto:mjmcguirk@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:44 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] casting foundry freight cars One of the industries in Waterbury, Vt., on the CV was the Cooley-Wright Manufacturing Co. which was a casting foundry. I know they would have received foundry sand from and iron ingots. I can see the two tracks into the facility (it was originally a granite cutting shed) but can't see any freight cars in the photos I have. Anyone have any details on what kinds of cars would have delivered materials to a small casting shop in the late steam (1950-54) era? Or some specifics on where that stuff would have come from (so I can figure out some appropriate freight cars, or at least close enough until more details become available. Thanks in advance, Marty McGuirk |
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David Karkoski <karkoskd@...>
Well that didn't. I will see if I can post to files.
David _____ From: David Karkoski Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 12:59 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] casting foundry freight cars Hi Marty, I am not sure if this graph will come through on group mail but I'll give it a try. It represents the carload deliveries to Rochester Metal Works, a small foundry, in Rochester Indiana in 1954. As far as car types generally coke in HM, Pig Iron in GB. The table shows reporting marks for products for more detailed evaluations (PI= Pig Iron). David Karkoski Car Initial Car Number Product Group CBQ 28100 Clay PRR 54734 Clay CIW 1286 Coke IC 85635 Coke MILW 85430 Coke CIW 1163 Coke IC 84359 Coke CIW 1165 Coke MILW 89203 Coke IC 94496 Coke IC 84838 Coke MILW 82487 Coke PRR 376338 Coke NKP 77382 Coke IC 94906 Coke CBQ 79410 Coke CIW 1128 Coke CIW 1267 Coke CEI 90040 Coke CIW 1242 Coke GN 49512 Firestone ERIE 86185 Firestone N&W 47699 Lumber B&O 255432 PI DLW 69824 PI NYC 641272 PI PLE 47772 PI WLE 75265 PI NKP 77120 PI B&O 264849 PI NKP 77358 PI B&O 261318 PI NKP 77137 PI NKP 77407 PI NYC 716111 PI PLE 11398 PI WLE 75445 PI NKP 71662 PI NKP 67104 PI NKP 71099 PI PM 54620 Sand CN 507644 Sand MILW 20870 Sand NYC 119522 Sand CN 507114 Sand _____ From: mjmcguirk@... <mailto:mjmcguirk%40cox.net> [mailto:mjmcguirk@... <mailto:mjmcguirk%40cox.net> ] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:44 AM To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [STMFC] casting foundry freight cars One of the industries in Waterbury, Vt., on the CV was the Cooley-Wright Manufacturing Co. which was a casting foundry. I know they would have received foundry sand from and iron ingots. I can see the two tracks into the facility (it was originally a granite cutting shed) but can't see any freight cars in the photos I have. Anyone have any details on what kinds of cars would have delivered materials to a small casting shop in the late steam (1950-54) era? Or some specifics on where that stuff would have come from (so I can figure out some appropriate freight cars, or at least close enough until more details become available. Thanks in advance, Marty McGuirk |
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mike turner <yardcoolieyahoo@...>
My experience with a foundry was they mixed a witches brew of oils and stuff in with the sand to make it hold it's shape. They said the stuff was proprietary and generally unique to the casting house. Water was not involved in the sand casting I saw. Steel was the material being cast. When the pour was started, serious smoke and flame as the liquid steel ignited the oils, etc. Larry's experience obviously differs from mine. YMMV.
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Mike Turner Simpsonville, SC ljack70117@... wrote: When making a sand mold the sand HAD to be wet in order to stick together around the pattern. Then it would be dried, pattern removed and the cast done. If the mold was wet when the casting was done you would have an explosion and people could get hurt and may be even killed. |
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proto48er
--- In STMFC@..., cj riley <cjriley42@...> wrote:
are way in the past, but I seem to remember bagged powdered additives in thesand to help the cavity to hold its shape.CJ - The sand was special; it was almost an art in itself selecting the appropriate sand for casting work. Not just any sand will work. Some of the additives to the sand in earlier days included sawdust and oatmeal(!) to give the molded sand cohesiveness during the short time between ramming it in the pattern and pouring of the hot metal. Most formulations were proprietary and may or may not have been founded on good science - more on "art". Proper moisture content of the sand was of primary importance. Some of the more modern additives to the sand include furan compounds (furanal or furfural aldehyde) that form a glue-like cohesion between sand particles. These compounds burn completely away when the hot metal is poured so that the sand can be reused. A sand mold made with furan resin binders can be stored for a lot longer time than a conventional mold because moisture content is not an issue. However, since these came into wide use in the 1970's, they are out of the germaine time period. If the sand gets too dry, it will disintegrate back into a formless pile of sand! The purpose of the additives is to give it the body to hold the shape of the pattern until the metal is poured. Then, ideally, the additives (and the moisture) all dry up or are destroyed by the hot metal so the sand can be used over and over. Tony T. is the resident metallurgist here - he can address this more completely. Freight car content: Almost all cast iron parts on steam era freight cars were sand cast! A.T. Kott |
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Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
Tony probably meant to mention that a gondola would never have been a full
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load by volume - the pigs would have been piled up over the trucks and not in very big piles either. Low-sided gons were often used in this traffic, at least on the Southern. My own experience in working in small foundry was a thirty odd years ago; the place employed perhaps a dozen people and was mostly a supplier of manhole covers and the like. Much of the raw material coming in was in the form of scrap cast iron - breaking the bigger castings into manageable chunks with a very big hammer was very enjoyable work for a seventeen year old. Aidrian -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Anthony Thompson Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:28 AM To: STMFC@... A gondola of pigs, or a covered hopper of sand, represents a lot of material, and an unloading challenge, relative to a box car. And finished castings would likely go out in box cars. |
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