Date
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Bulk Wine Shipments
Richard Hendrickson
On Nov 16, 2006, at 10:47 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
In the 1960s, on a trip through the Finger Lakes region of New York State, I happened to notice a wine tank car set out at the Taylor winery in Canandaigua (probably the winery Russ refers to). A close look at the route cards confirmed that the shipment had originated in Salinas, CA; by that time, Taylor's use of Calif. wine had reached the point where they had purchased their own vineyards and winery there.
I hasten to add, before I get a grumpy e-mail on the subject, that New York native Jeff English assures me some of the smaller New York State wineries make excellent stuff, though I haven't had the opportunity to confirm this for myself. All I can say is that the New York wine I've tried has, from the viewpoint of a West Coast wine fancier, been undistinguished (and might have been worse had it not been blended with wine imported from the left coast).
Richard Hendrickson
Russ Strodtz wrote:Tony is correct. The growing season was generally too short in upstate New York to bring the residual sugar in the wine grapes up to acceptable levels, so the wineries there routinely imported bulk wine from California which, blended with the local product, rendered it drinkable, if not especially desirable. And what was delivered to them in tank cars was definitely wine, not grape juice. Most of it did not come from the Napa Valley or other premium wine areas north of San Francisco, however, but from producers in the Lodi-Modesto-Merced-Madera region of California's central valley, whose wines were typically less costly, though of lower quality. (That's not so true today, however; central valley growers, aided by the U. of Calif. ag school at Davis, are now producing some excellent wines in several varieties, as well as continuing to supply generous quantities of what the Brits call "plonk." But I digress.)In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at CanandaiguaAre you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" purchased
NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in
California.
California wine for blending and/or repackaging.
In the 1960s, on a trip through the Finger Lakes region of New York State, I happened to notice a wine tank car set out at the Taylor winery in Canandaigua (probably the winery Russ refers to). A close look at the route cards confirmed that the shipment had originated in Salinas, CA; by that time, Taylor's use of Calif. wine had reached the point where they had purchased their own vineyards and winery there.
I hasten to add, before I get a grumpy e-mail on the subject, that New York native Jeff English assures me some of the smaller New York State wineries make excellent stuff, though I haven't had the opportunity to confirm this for myself. All I can say is that the New York wine I've tried has, from the viewpoint of a West Coast wine fancier, been undistinguished (and might have been worse had it not been blended with wine imported from the left coast).
Richard Hendrickson
walter kierzkowski <cathyk@...>
There was a Wine bottling works in Northeastern Pa. In a small town of Jermyn Pa called Rhiningers I believe thats the spelling they always received tank cars full of wine on the D&H RR.in the 50's and 60's some were cars with several domes... It was wine ..not grape juice..WJK
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----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bulk Wine Shipments
On Nov 16, 2006, at 10:47 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
> Russ Strodtz wrote:
>> In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at Canandaigua
>> NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in
>> California.
>
> Are you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" purchased
> California wine for blending and/or repackaging.
Tony is correct. The growing season was generally too short in upstate
New York to bring the residual sugar in the wine grapes up to
acceptable levels, so the wineries there routinely imported bulk wine
from California which, blended with the local product, rendered it
drinkable, if not especially desirable. And what was delivered to them
in tank cars was definitely wine, not grape juice. Most of it did not
come from the Napa Valley or other premium wine areas north of San
Francisco, however, but from producers in the
Lodi-Modesto-Merced-Madera region of California's central valley, whose
wines were typically less costly, though of lower quality. (That's not
so true today, however; central valley growers, aided by the U. of
Calif. ag school at Davis, are now producing some excellent wines in
several varieties, as well as continuing to supply generous quantities
of what the Brits call "plonk." But I digress.)
In the 1960s, on a trip through the Finger Lakes region of New York
State, I happened to notice a wine tank car set out at the Taylor
winery in Canandaigua (probably the winery Russ refers to). A close
look at the route cards confirmed that the shipment had originated in
Salinas, CA; by that time, Taylor's use of Calif. wine had reached the
point where they had purchased their own vineyards and winery there.
I hasten to add, before I get a grumpy e-mail on the subject, that New
York native Jeff English assures me some of the smaller New York State
wineries make excellent stuff, though I haven't had the opportunity to
confirm this for myself. All I can say is that the New York wine I've
tried has, from the viewpoint of a West Coast wine fancier, been
undistinguished (and might have been worse had it not been blended with
wine imported from the left coast).
Richard Hendrickson
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bulk Wine Shipments
On Nov 16, 2006, at 10:47 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
> Russ Strodtz wrote:
>> In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at Canandaigua
>> NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in
>> California.
>
> Are you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" purchased
> California wine for blending and/or repackaging.
Tony is correct. The growing season was generally too short in upstate
New York to bring the residual sugar in the wine grapes up to
acceptable levels, so the wineries there routinely imported bulk wine
from California which, blended with the local product, rendered it
drinkable, if not especially desirable. And what was delivered to them
in tank cars was definitely wine, not grape juice. Most of it did not
come from the Napa Valley or other premium wine areas north of San
Francisco, however, but from producers in the
Lodi-Modesto-Merced-Madera region of California's central valley, whose
wines were typically less costly, though of lower quality. (That's not
so true today, however; central valley growers, aided by the U. of
Calif. ag school at Davis, are now producing some excellent wines in
several varieties, as well as continuing to supply generous quantities
of what the Brits call "plonk." But I digress.)
In the 1960s, on a trip through the Finger Lakes region of New York
State, I happened to notice a wine tank car set out at the Taylor
winery in Canandaigua (probably the winery Russ refers to). A close
look at the route cards confirmed that the shipment had originated in
Salinas, CA; by that time, Taylor's use of Calif. wine had reached the
point where they had purchased their own vineyards and winery there.
I hasten to add, before I get a grumpy e-mail on the subject, that New
York native Jeff English assures me some of the smaller New York State
wineries make excellent stuff, though I haven't had the opportunity to
confirm this for myself. All I can say is that the New York wine I've
tried has, from the viewpoint of a West Coast wine fancier, been
undistinguished (and might have been worse had it not been blended with
wine imported from the left coast).
Richard Hendrickson
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
My buddy Wayne A. Cole, in his book on the Beaver Valley Railroad company, writes that in 1947a former Gulf Oil refinery was converted to a winery (! ? !) and "tank cars of muscatel, port, and sherry were pumped into vats then bottled at the plant." (The BVRR was in Beaver, PA and jointly operated - and connected to - the PRR and P&LE RR.)
KL
KL
Richard Hendrickson
On Nov 16, 2006, at 8:05 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:
Richard Hendrickson
My buddy Wayne A. Cole, in his book on the Beaver Valley Railroad company, writes that in 1947a former Gulf Oil refinery was converted to a winery (! ? !) and "tank cars of muscatel, port, and sherry were pumped into vats then bottled at the plant." (The BVRR was in Beaver, PA and jointly operated - and connected to - the PRR and P&LE RR.)Muscatel? And (doubtless cheap) port and sherry? Ugh! The mind boggles! The taste buds shrivel! Any petroleum residue from the refinery that might have made its way into the finished product would have been undetectable.
Richard Hendrickson
hoghead32 <buckfiveoh@...>
Into the early 70's, Madiera Wines in Baltimore received uncut wine in
8,000/10,000 gal. tanks from California. Madiera simply cut and
bottled the stuff for sale locally. The train crews would sometimes
spot the car on a chock at one end, so when the car was emptied, about
50 gallons was left in the "empty" for retrieval up in the yard
later. M.J. Buckelew [hoghead32]
8,000/10,000 gal. tanks from California. Madiera simply cut and
bottled the stuff for sale locally. The train crews would sometimes
spot the car on a chock at one end, so when the car was emptied, about
50 gallons was left in the "empty" for retrieval up in the yard
later. M.J. Buckelew [hoghead32]
CanandaiguaRuss Strodtz wrote:In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at
purchasedNY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley inAre you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries"
California.
California wine for blending and/or repackaging.
Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
I'll stand by grape juice shipped in tank cars. The wine tanks
were inside an express reefer carbody. The last I recall in
service were the Chateau Martin cars.
As to the origin my knowledge of the physical geography of
California is close to zero. All I saw was waybills. They did
not have maps included.
Russ
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were inside an express reefer carbody. The last I recall in
service were the Chateau Martin cars.
As to the origin my knowledge of the physical geography of
California is close to zero. All I saw was waybills. They did
not have maps included.
Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 16 November, 2006 17:45
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bulk Wine Shipments
On Nov 16, 2006, at 10:47 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
> Russ Strodtz wrote:
>> In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at Canandaigua
>> NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in
>> California.
>
> Are you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" purchased
> California wine for blending and/or repackaging.
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 16 November, 2006 17:45
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bulk Wine Shipments
On Nov 16, 2006, at 10:47 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
> Russ Strodtz wrote:
>> In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at Canandaigua
>> NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in
>> California.
>
> Are you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" purchased
> California wine for blending and/or repackaging.
Tony Thompson
Russ Strodtz wrote:
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
I'll stand by grape juice shipped in tank cars. The wine tanks were inside an express reefer carbody. The last I recall in service were the Chateau Martin cars.There were plenty of conventional tank cars used to ship wine; most were insulated and many had multiple compartmants. The "box tank" type was certainly out there but rather less prevalent.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Richard Hendrickson
On Nov 19, 2006, at 6:35 AM, Russ Strodtz wrote:
In the steam era, wine cars consisting of tanks inside refrigerator car bodies were rare, though there were a few of them (e.g., ex-PFE cars owned by California Despatch Line). More extensive use of former express reefer-type milk cars to ship wine, as in the case of the Chateau Martin cars, came later.
As always in historical research, one must beware of over-generalizing on the basis of limited experience, especially when that experience post-dates the era under discussion.
Richard Hendrickson
I'll stand by grape juice shipped in tank cars. The wine tanksIn the era with which this list is concerned, most wine shipments traveled in glass-lined ICC-203 tank cars which were dedicated exclusively to bulk wine service. There were a sizable number of these cars; some were single compartment, but many had three, four, or six compartments so that different wines could be shipped in the same car. Almost all were built for the purpose by either AC&F or GATC; owned by Shippers Car Line, General American, or North American; and leased to shippers on a short or long term basis (long-term lessors often had billboard advertising stenciled on the cars). Such cars may have sometimes been used to ship grape juice, but all of the surviving documentation about them identifies them as wine cars, and few recipients would have had the facilities required to turn grape juice into wine; most were wholesalers who purchased bulk wine and then bottled and distributed it under their own labels.
were inside an express reefer carbody. The last I recall in
service were the Chateau Martin cars.
In the steam era, wine cars consisting of tanks inside refrigerator car bodies were rare, though there were a few of them (e.g., ex-PFE cars owned by California Despatch Line). More extensive use of former express reefer-type milk cars to ship wine, as in the case of the Chateau Martin cars, came later.
As always in historical research, one must beware of over-generalizing on the basis of limited experience, especially when that experience post-dates the era under discussion.
Richard Hendrickson
ljack70117@...
I would bet on wine. When I was a switchman on the Santa Fe in Emporia Ks we had a lot of wine tank cars go through. I never saw a car with grape juice. IMHO it would be impossible to ship Grape juice in bulk with out contamination which would render it useless for any thing on the other end of the trip.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
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Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
On Nov 19, 2006, at 9:35 AM, Russ Strodtz wrote:
I'll stand by grape juice shipped in tank cars. The wine tanks
were inside an express reefer carbody. The last I recall in
service were the Chateau Martin cars.
As to the origin my knowledge of the physical geography of
California is close to zero. All I saw was waybills. They did
not have maps included.
Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, 16 November, 2006 17:45
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bulk Wine Shipments
On Nov 16, 2006, at 10:47 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:Russ Strodtz wrote:In a similar vein I can recall that there was a winery at CanandaiguaAre you sure it was juice? Many eastern "wineries" purchased
NY that would get grape juice in bulk from the Napa Valley in
California.
California wine for blending and/or repackaging.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
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----- Original Message -----
From: ljack70117@...
IMHO it would be impossible to ship Grape juice
in bulk with out contamination which would render it useless for any
thing on the other end of the trip.
----- Original Message -----
Not to be a wiener, but if they could ship wine (ostensibly without contamination), why couldn't they have shipped grape juice?
KL
From: ljack70117@...
IMHO it would be impossible to ship Grape juice
in bulk with out contamination which would render it useless for any
thing on the other end of the trip.
----- Original Message -----
Not to be a wiener, but if they could ship wine (ostensibly without contamination), why couldn't they have shipped grape juice?
KL
Not to be a wiener, but if they could ship wine (ostensibly withoutKurt,
contamination), why couldn't they have shipped grape juice?
As any home brewer/vintner knows, a high degree of cleanliness prior to
fermentaition is an absolute requirement. The grape juice has sugars that
are fermentable and any contamination by wild yeast will result in
fermentation, off flavors and less sugar for the wine yeast to ferment.
Thus the car would need to be nearly sterile for the transport of grape
juice destined for wine and no stray yeast could be allowed to enter
during transfer or transport (difficult to accomplish). Wine OTOH, has a
high enough alcohol content that the yeast that fermented it have
committed a very pleasent sort of suicide. Stray wild yeast are unlikely
to find any fermentable sugars, or to survive in the alcohol. Cleanliness
is still very important, but not nearly so much as with the unfermented
grape juice.
BTW, grape juice NOT destined for fermentation would have addatives in it
to prevent fermentation so that strict sanitization would not be needed to
transport it.
Bruce - breathing a sigh of relief since my Apricot Mead has fermented out
with no sign of contamination!
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
ljack70117@...
Because when you ship Juice it will pick up WILD yeast and start the wine making process. You no longer have juice. If you have ever made home made wine you would understand you must kill the wild yeast before it starts to work or you will have some bad tasting wine. Wild yeast is every where.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
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Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
On Nov 19, 2006, at 2:31 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: ljack70117@...
IMHO it would be impossible to ship Grape juice
in bulk with out contamination which would render it useless for any
thing on the other end of the trip.
----- Original Message -----
Not to be a wiener, but if they could ship wine (ostensibly without
contamination), why couldn't they have shipped grape juice?
KL
Yahoo! Groups Links
Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
Thanks Bruce & Larry. My wife is the wine-maker, not me!
KL
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KL
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bulk Wine Shipments
As any home brewer/vintner knows, a high degree of cleanliness prior to
fermentaition is an absolute requirement. The grape juice has sugars that
are fermentable and any contamination by wild yeast will result in
fermentation, off flavors and less sugar for the wine yeast to ferment.
Thus the car would need to be nearly sterile for the transport of grape
juice destined for wine and no stray yeast could be allowed to enter
during transfer or transport (difficult to accomplish). Wine OTOH, has a
high enough alcohol content that the yeast that fermented it have
committed a very pleasent sort of suicide. Stray wild yeast are unlikely
to find any fermentable sugars, or to survive in the alcohol. Cleanliness
is still very important, but not nearly so much as with the unfermented
grape juice.
BTW, grape juice NOT destined for fermentation would have addatives in it
to prevent fermentation so that strict sanitization would not be needed to
transport it.
Bruce - breathing a sigh of relief since my Apricot Mead has fermented out
with no sign of contamination!
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: Bruce Smith
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bulk Wine Shipments
Not to be a wiener, but if they could ship wine (ostensibly withoutKurt,
contamination), why couldn't they have shipped grape juice?
As any home brewer/vintner knows, a high degree of cleanliness prior to
fermentaition is an absolute requirement. The grape juice has sugars that
are fermentable and any contamination by wild yeast will result in
fermentation, off flavors and less sugar for the wine yeast to ferment.
Thus the car would need to be nearly sterile for the transport of grape
juice destined for wine and no stray yeast could be allowed to enter
during transfer or transport (difficult to accomplish). Wine OTOH, has a
high enough alcohol content that the yeast that fermented it have
committed a very pleasent sort of suicide. Stray wild yeast are unlikely
to find any fermentable sugars, or to survive in the alcohol. Cleanliness
is still very important, but not nearly so much as with the unfermented
grape juice.
BTW, grape juice NOT destined for fermentation would have addatives in it
to prevent fermentation so that strict sanitization would not be needed to
transport it.
Bruce - breathing a sigh of relief since my Apricot Mead has fermented out
with no sign of contamination!
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Richard,
Can you tell us any more about the California Despatch wine cars (dates, routing, users, number and type of cars, anything). I remember the Red Caboose R-30-11/12 refrigerators lettered for various wine producers, as well as some earlier Red Ball paper side kits. Were any of the RC cars accurate, and for what era? Now that I think about it, Tony didn't discuss or show any of these cars in his PFE book, yet I know photos of some exist. Maybe a revised 3rd edition is needed? :-[
Kind regards,
Garth G. Groff
Richard Hendrickson wrote (in part):
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Can you tell us any more about the California Despatch wine cars (dates, routing, users, number and type of cars, anything). I remember the Red Caboose R-30-11/12 refrigerators lettered for various wine producers, as well as some earlier Red Ball paper side kits. Were any of the RC cars accurate, and for what era? Now that I think about it, Tony didn't discuss or show any of these cars in his PFE book, yet I know photos of some exist. Maybe a revised 3rd edition is needed? :-[
Kind regards,
Garth G. Groff
Richard Hendrickson wrote (in part):
In the steam era, wine cars consisting of tanks inside refrigerator car bodies were rare, though there were a few of them (e.g., ex-PFE cars
owned by California Despatch Line). More extensive use of former express reefer-type milk cars to ship wine, as in the case of the Chateau Martin cars, came later.
Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Larry, Bruce and friends,
The main enemy of fermented wine shipped in bulk is bacteria. Certain common bacteria turns wine into vinegar. Bruce is probably right about stray yeast dying in the alcohol, although all wine has at least some residual sugar which hardy yeasts can ferment. Contamination by yeast might start a secondary fermentation, which would result in a crude sparkling wine. Intentional secondary fermentation usually requires special yeasts with high alcohol tolerance (i.e. "champagne yeast"). Wild yeast would not be desired, but would also be less likely to do much damage to finished and stabalized bulk wine.
The favored treatment in modern wineries against both wild yeasts and bacteria is sulfites. Any railroad wine tanks would be sterilized with suflite compounds before filling, and such compounds would probably be added to the wine to prevent refermentation or contamination before shipping. When I was a home winemaker I used Camden tablets or similar powders (IIRC it was potassium or sodium metabisulfite). I believe other sulfite compounds are used commercially today.
Some of the multi-compartment wine tanks lasted a long time in service (I remember a Roma car near Fresno in the late 1960s). This led to several being preserved in museums. The Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris, California, has/had two, one with six compartments, and another with four. IIRC, both were jacketed, insulated tanks. Sadly, they were marked only with the museum's reporting marks.
Kind regards,
Garth G. Groff
ljack70117@... wrote:
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The main enemy of fermented wine shipped in bulk is bacteria. Certain common bacteria turns wine into vinegar. Bruce is probably right about stray yeast dying in the alcohol, although all wine has at least some residual sugar which hardy yeasts can ferment. Contamination by yeast might start a secondary fermentation, which would result in a crude sparkling wine. Intentional secondary fermentation usually requires special yeasts with high alcohol tolerance (i.e. "champagne yeast"). Wild yeast would not be desired, but would also be less likely to do much damage to finished and stabalized bulk wine.
The favored treatment in modern wineries against both wild yeasts and bacteria is sulfites. Any railroad wine tanks would be sterilized with suflite compounds before filling, and such compounds would probably be added to the wine to prevent refermentation or contamination before shipping. When I was a home winemaker I used Camden tablets or similar powders (IIRC it was potassium or sodium metabisulfite). I believe other sulfite compounds are used commercially today.
Some of the multi-compartment wine tanks lasted a long time in service (I remember a Roma car near Fresno in the late 1960s). This led to several being preserved in museums. The Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris, California, has/had two, one with six compartments, and another with four. IIRC, both were jacketed, insulated tanks. Sadly, they were marked only with the museum's reporting marks.
Kind regards,
Garth G. Groff
ljack70117@... wrote:
Because when you ship Juice it will pick up WILD yeast and start the wine making process. You no longer have juice. If you have ever made home made wine you would understand you must kill the wild yeast before it starts to work or you will have some bad tasting wine. Wild yeast is every where.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
On Nov 19, 2006, at 2:31 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: ljack70117@...
IMHO it would be impossible to ship Grape juice
in bulk with out contamination which would render it useless for any
thing on the other end of the trip.
ljack70117@...
But when when the Alcohol content reaches 17/18% NO YEAST can exist in wine. I have a friend in the Seattle area that makes 200 gallons of wine a year and he allows his wine to work until the alcohol kills all the yeast and stops working. He also likes sweet wine so he adds more sugar to the finished wine and it does not start working again.
As far as bacteria is concerned Wine is some of the best antiseptic on the market. Wine will kill bacteria that alcohol by it self will not touch.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
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As far as bacteria is concerned Wine is some of the best antiseptic on the market. Wine will kill bacteria that alcohol by it self will not touch.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
On Nov 20, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:
Larry, Bruce and friends,
The main enemy of fermented wine shipped in bulk is bacteria. Certain
common bacteria turns wine into vinegar. Bruce is probably right about
stray yeast dying in the alcohol, although all wine has at least some
residual sugar which hardy yeasts can ferment. Contamination by yeast
might start a secondary fermentation, which would result in a crude
sparkling wine. Intentional secondary fermentation usually requires
special yeasts with high alcohol tolerance (i.e. "champagne yeast").
Wild yeast would not be desired, but would also be less likely to do
much damage to finished and stabalized bulk wine.
The favored treatment in modern wineries against both wild yeasts and
bacteria is sulfites. Any railroad wine tanks would be sterilized with
suflite compounds before filling, and such compounds would probably be
added to the wine to prevent refermentation or contamination before
shipping. When I was a home winemaker I used Camden tablets or similar
powders (IIRC it was potassium or sodium metabisulfite). I believe other
sulfite compounds are used commercially today.
Some of the multi-compartment wine tanks lasted a long time in service
(I remember a Roma car near Fresno in the late 1960s). This led to
several being preserved in museums. The Orange Empire Railway Museum in
Perris, California, has/had two, one with six compartments, and another
with four. IIRC, both were jacketed, insulated tanks. Sadly, they were
marked only with the museum's reporting marks.
Kind regards,
Garth G. Groff
ljack70117@... wrote:Because when you ship Juice it will pick up WILD yeast and start the
wine making process. You no longer have juice. If you have ever made
home made wine you would understand you must kill the wild yeast
before it starts to work or you will have some bad tasting wine. Wild
yeast is every where.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
On Nov 19, 2006, at 2:31 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:----- Original Message -----
From: ljack70117@...
IMHO it would be impossible to ship Grape juice
in bulk with out contamination which would render it useless for any
thing on the other end of the trip.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Garth G. Groff wrote:
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Can you tell us any more about the California Despatch wine cars . . . Now that I think about it, Tony didn't discuss or show any of these cars in his PFE book, yet I know photos of some exist. Maybe a revised 3rd edition is needed? :-[Ahem. Garth, please go to page 84 in your hymnal.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Tony,
Oh. [Egg on the face]. I haven't been to that psalm since I got the Book two years ago. My apologies, Tony. I did read it cover to cover when it first arrived. Since then I've hung out mostly in the 'rebuilt' section.
Kind regards,
Garth G. Groff
Anthony Thompson wrote:
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Oh. [Egg on the face]. I haven't been to that psalm since I got the Book two years ago. My apologies, Tony. I did read it cover to cover when it first arrived. Since then I've hung out mostly in the 'rebuilt' section.
Kind regards,
Garth G. Groff
Anthony Thompson wrote:
Garth G. Groff wrote:
Can you tell us any more about the California Despatch wine cars . . . Now that I think about it, Tony didn't discuss or show any of these cars in his PFE book, yet I know photos of some exist. Maybe a revised 3rd edition is needed? :-[Ahem. Garth, please go to page 84 in your hymnal.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
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