Thought that now was the time for a little levity.
And just how many head of cattle can be put into a forty foot car?



Only 10, after that there's more feet.
Chuck Hladik

Can anyone offer any information on an AAR stockcar design? Or point me to a
source of AAR freight car designs/drawings. I have searched the group files
and can find nothing related to an AAR stockcar design. I ask because
someone on another list said the Broadway Limited Pennsy K7A stockcar was an
AAR design, which I thought was a unique Pennsy design.

The closest reference I have found is a reference to the Athearn 40'
stockcar being an AAR design, while I thought the Athearn car was roughly
patterned after a UP design.

Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
www.iowacentralrr.org

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3:17 PM

Doug Harding asked:
"Can anyone offer any information on an AAR stockcar design? Or
point me to a source of AAR freight car designs/drawings. I have
searched the group files and can find nothing related to an AAR
stockcar design."

The only AAR standard stock car design that I know of was the 1951
AAR stock car, which only the Union Pacific and D&RGW used. (The
Athearn stockcar follows this prototype.) Drawings and information
appeared in the July 1990 issue of Mainline Modeler.


"I ask because someone on another list said the Broadway Limited
Pennsy K7A stockcar was an AAR design, which I thought was a unique
Pennsy design."

"Someone on another list" needs to get his facts straight. No
matter what Broadway Limited would have you believe, the PRR Class
K7A stockcars were unique to the Pennsy; in fact, they were rebuilt
from Class X24 automobile box cars which pre-dated the formation of
the AAR by 20 years.


Ben Hom

Doug, Ben-
Broadway Limited has never tried to pass off the PRR K7A as being correct for anything but PRR (having never referred to the car as anything except a K7A), and has worked with the PRRTHS Modeling Committee to make it correct for the PRR.... there are further tooling changes coming up per their recommendations, including new truck sideframes.
The inclusion of bogus roadnames on the K7A body is a commercial reality of hard-tooled products following narrowly road specific prototypes.... and those that have bought the Wabash, N&W, etc.. cars have not caught any life-threatening illnesses from them, at least as far as has been reported. Most of the people that bought them even enjoy the Hog, Cattle, and Chicken noises as well!!!
Happy Model Railroading....
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources




Doug Harding asked:
""Someone on another list" needs to get his facts straight. No
matter what Broadway Limited would have you believe, the PRR Class
K7A stockcars were unique to the Pennsy; in fact, they were rebuilt
from Class X24 automobile box cars which pre-dated the formation of
the AAR by 20 years.

Ben Hom

.

On Dec 18, 2006, at 8:57 AM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Doug Harding asked:
"Can anyone offer any information on an AAR stockcar design? Or
point me to a source of AAR freight car designs/drawings. I have
searched the group files and can find nothing related to an AAR
stockcar design."

"I ask because someone on another list said the Broadway Limited
Pennsy K7A stockcar was an AAR design, which I thought was a unique
Pennsy design."

"Someone on another list" needs to get his facts straight. No
matter what Broadway Limited would have you believe, the PRR Class
K7A stockcars were unique to the Pennsy; in fact, they were rebuilt
from Class X24 automobile box cars which pre-dated the formation of
the AAR by 20 years.

Ben is, of course, correct. It may be added, however, that an ARA
standard stock car design was adopted in 1927 – two of them actually,
one of forty tons nominal capacity and the other of fifty tons (though
it's doubtful that any railroad would have needed fifty ton stock cars,
and none were actually built). Like other ARA standard house car
designs of the 1920s, it was based on the Pennsylvania RR X29 box car.
This design became an AAR standard when the ARA was transformed into
the AAR in 1934 and was shown as such in the 1937, 1940, 1943, and 1946
Car Builders' Cyclopedias; the later AAR recommended practice stock car
Ben mentions, which was based on a Union Pacific design, did not appear
in the Cycs until 1953.

To the best of my knowledge, only three railroads had cars that were
derivatives of the ARA/AAR standard design, the Pennsylvania (class
K8), the Louisville & Nashville (series 19500-19699), and the Atlantic
Coast Line (class N5), though the ACL cars had 4-4 Dreadnaught steel
ends and Murphy rectangular panel steel roofs instead of the
single-sheathed wood ends and wood roofs shown in the ARA/AAR drawings.
Most railroads that had large fleets of stock cars preferred cars
built to their own designs or (increasingly, in later years) cars
rebuilt from obsolete box cars.

The only HO scale model that even comes close to the ARA/AAR standard
design (and it's not very close) is the Walthers ex-Train Miniature
stock car, which has sides and side framing like the ARA car but the
wrong ends, roof, and underframe.

Richard Hendrickson

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:
"..... an ARA

standard stock car design was adopted in 1927 – two of them

actually,

one of forty tons nominal capacity and the other of fifty tons

(though

it's doubtful that any railroad would have needed fifty ton stock

cars,

and none were actually built). Like other ARA standard house car
designs of the 1920s, it was based on the Pennsylvania RR X29 box

car.

This design became an AAR standard when the ARA was transformed

into

the AAR in 1934 and was shown as such in the 1937, 1940, 1943, and

1946

Car Builders' Cyclopedias; the later AAR recommended practice stock

car

Ben mentions, which was based on a Union Pacific design, did not

appear

in the Cycs until 1953.

To the best of my knowledge, only three railroads had cars that

were

derivatives of the ARA/AAR standard design, the Pennsylvania (class
K8), the Louisville & Nashville (series 19500-19699), and the

Atlantic

Coast Line (class N5), though the ACL cars had 4-4 Dreadnaught

steel

ends and Murphy rectangular panel steel roofs instead of the
single-sheathed wood ends and wood roofs shown in the ARA/AAR

drawings.

Most railroads that had large fleets of stock cars preferred cars
built to their own designs or (increasingly, in later years) cars
rebuilt from obsolete box cars.

The only HO scale model that even comes close to the ARA/AAR

standard

design (and it's not very close) is the Walthers ex-Train Miniature
stock car, which has sides and side framing like the ARA car but

the

wrong ends, roof, and underframe.

What about the Ambroid stock car kit?

Ed

Charlie Vlk wrote:
"Broadway Limited has never tried to pass off the PRR K7A as being
correct for anything but PRR (having never referred to the car as
anything except a K7A)..."

Charlie, I'll concede that point but note that they also say on their
website that
"Our model is based on the Pennsylvania Railroad K7A design, which was
quite similar to many other road's stock cars."
http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/k7stockcar.htm

I'm sorry, but I can't think of too many other roads with stock cars
with the alternating diagonal truss of the PRR Class X23 family. You
don't have to read us the riot act about the economy of the hobby
driving the bogus roadnames either - I think we're all well aware of
that.


Ben Hom

Ben-
Stock cars may vary from road to road more than most any other car type.
Most, though, had a roof, two ends, two slides that had some slats, a floor, two four wheeled trucks; but all stunk!
Hopefully, BLI won't figure out a way to reproduce that one common characteristic!!!
Charlie

Charlie Vlk wrote:
"Broadway Limited has never tried to pass off the PRR K7A as being
correct for anything but PRR (having never referred to the car as
anything except a K7A)..."

Charlie, I'll concede that point but note that they also say on their
website that
"Our model is based on the Pennsylvania Railroad K7A design, which was
quite similar to many other road's stock cars."
http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/k7stockcar.htm

I'm sorry, but I can't think of too many other roads with stock cars
with the alternating diagonal truss of the PRR Class X23 family. You
don't have to read us the riot act about the economy of the hobby
driving the bogus roadnames either - I think we're all well aware of
that.

Ben Hom

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

... the later AAR recommended practice stock car Ben mentions,
which was based on a Union Pacific design, did not appear in the
Cycs until 1953.

I don't have my notes at work, and I don't know what it was based on,
but I have long been under the impression (delusion?) that the D&RGW,
GN, and CB&Q all had stock cars that were closely related to the
AAR standard, while I thought that UP cars had diagonals running
the other way... But I could be wrong of course. :-)

Tim O'Connor

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I don't have my notes at work, and I don't know what it was based on,
but I have long been under the impression (delusion?) that the D&RGW,
GN, and CB&Q all had stock cars that were closely related to the
AAR standard, while I thought that UP cars had diagonals running
the other way... But I could be wrong of course. :-)"

You might want to go back and check your notes. As Richard posted
earlier, the 1951 AAR standard design was based on UP Class S-40-12,
500 cars built in 1950.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/up/up47417d-ajs.jpg

UP subsequently updated the design with a ZU-eave roof, producing
Class S-40-13, 500 cars built in 1951.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/up/up48859ajs.jpg

You might be confusing these cars with the earlier Class S-40-10
cars, which did have the diagonals running the other way, or the fact
that the Athearn model's diagonal panel roof is the mirror image of
the prototype. See Metcalfe's Union Pacific Freight Cars 1936-1951,
pages 144-149.

Contrary to what I posted earlier today, the D&RGW cars were not
built to this design. D&RGW 36400-36499, built in 1955, were Pratt
truss double-deck cars.

The GN didn't build any cars to this design, preferring to convert
stock cars from SS and DS boxcars. All of the conversions were Pratt
truss cars.

At first glance, CB&Q 52700-53199, Class SM-19B looks close (Clark
Propst photo from the pay side of the RPI website):
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Stock-cars/CB&Q-52801-
Propst.jpg

However, these cars had an IH of 9 ft 1 in, rectangular panel roofs,
and 5 ft door openings. See Hol Wagner's article in Burlington
Bulletin No. 25.

One last cautionary note - the Hundman drawing in the July 1990 shows
an odd end that doesn't match the 4/5 improved Dreadnaught ends of
the UP cars.


Ben Hom

Thanks to Ben, Charlie and Richard for providing the correct information I
was seeking. I knew the BLI was a unique Pennsy design, but wanted to be
sure before responding on the list where the AAR comment was posted. Now
that I am better informed, I can respond correctly.

Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
www.iowacentralrr.org

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3:17 PM

How do you levitate cattle? Tis the season for levitating reindeer!

regards,

Andy Miller

In a message dated 12/19/2006 10:47:38 A.M. Central Standard Time,
RUTLANDRS@... writes:




Thought that now was the time for a little levity.
And just how many head of cattle can be put into a forty foot car?



Only 10, after that there's more feet.
Chuck Hladik






While on the subject of levity as related to railroads, one of my father's
(who spent many years as a Roadmaster/Track supervisor on the Wabash) favorite
questions was "How many cars will a stub end siding hold?"

His answer was "Nobody knows. The hogger can just keep shoving them in."

Ed Dabler

Our favorite joke on the Un Pac at Salina Ks was The engine forman told his field man to ride two box cars down a track and tie them down. The field man came back and ask could he have two more as the last two went in to the river.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...

Andy & list,

Levitate cattle? Suprised you didn't know-------you clip a lead to the pantograph, run a cable back to the needed car, apply other end of lead to cattle's flank, and step back quickly. It is suggested you wear rain gear for this application of 'physics' <LOL>

Fred Freitas


"Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@...> wrote:
How do you levitate cattle? Tis the season for levitating reindeer!

regards,

Andy Miller

Andy & list,

Levitate cattle? Suprised you didn't know-------you clip a lead to the pantograph, run a cable back to the needed car, apply other end of lead to cattle's flank, and step back quickly. It is suggested you wear rain gear for this application of 'physics' <LOL>

Fred Freitas


"Miller, Andrew S." <asmiller@...> wrote:
How do you levitate cattle? Tis the season for levitating reindeer!

regards,

Andy Miller

As to how many had can be put in a car, see
http://users2.ev1.net/~jssand/SFHMS/Sand/Stk/03.htm
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

--- benjaminfrank_hom wrote

Contrary to what I posted earlier today, the D&RGW cars were not
built to this design. D&RGW 36400-36499, built in 1955, were Pratt
truss double-deck cars.
The GN didn't build any cars to this design, preferring to convert
stock cars from SS and DS boxcars. All of the conversions were
Pratt truss cars.

Thanks.

That was the source of my confusion -- the GN and DRGW cars had
Pratt trusses, and I mistakenly thought they followed the AAR spec.

At first glance, CB&Q 52700-53199, Class SM-19B looks close ...

Yes, I think so too. Evidently NO ONE actually built an AAR stock
car after the spec was written based on the UP S-40-12?

Tim

On Dec 20, 2006, at 1:37 PM, Tim O'Connor cf5250 wrote:

Yes, I think so too. Evidently NO ONE actually built an AAR stock
car after the spec was written based on the UP S-40-12?

Tim, new stock cars of any design were very rare after WW II. Almost all RRs that needed stock cars had a generous supply of obsolete box cars which could easily be converted into stock cars, and there's a long list of RRs that did exactly that, from ATSF to Wabash.

Richard Hendrickson

Right at the end of this groups time frame the economics of loading Hogs in
the Midwest must have changed. The 36' and 40' cars vanished and were
replaced with a CB&Q purpose built group of 50' double decks. CB&Q then
leased another group of Mather stretch jobs from NATX and NYC leased a group
of identical cars.

This fleet suited the volume that was being moved until the traffic finally
went away.

Russ