Dennis Storzek wrote:

But... cars with a wood upper surface on the roof most often did not have lateral running boards to the ladder locations; the trainmen were expected to walk on the roof boards. Photos of the Soo Line stockcars taken in the early sixties show the same arrangement; running boards, but no laterals, the corner grabs are just bolted to the roof sheathing.

True. I haven't seen a single car from that era with laterals. The reefer story is a somewhat different issue and has been explored in detail several places.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Kurt Laughlin wrote:

So early cars didn't have roofwalks at all, the brakemen just walked
on the roof (or what appeared to be the roof)?

No. There are 1867 Central Pacific photos which clearly show
running boards, and the roofs appear to be OUTSIDE metal roofs. One of
these photos is in my SP Freight Cars, Vol. 4. The great majority of
cars in subsequent years DID have running boards to provide a level
walking surface.

But... cars with a wood upper surface on the roof most often did not
have lateral running boards to the ladder locations; the trainmen were
expected to walk on the roof boards. Photos of the Soo Line stockcars
taken in the early sixties show the same arrangement; running boards,
but no laterals, the corner grabs are just bolted to the roof sheathing.

Reefers with inside metal roofs typically didn't have separate
platforms around the hatches. Reefers with OUTSIDE METAL ROOFS (which
were light gauge sheet metal over wood decking) typically had wood
platforms around the hatches, both to provide footing and protect the
roof from being beaten to death by blocks of ice. When these cars were
re-roofed with all steel roofs like the Hutchins Dry Lading,
Chicago-Cleveland Zenith, or SOLID STEEL roofs, the platforms went
away again, because the heavier gauge steel was judged to be able to
take the abuse. Many operators of reefers sanded the roof paint, at
least around the hatches, for better footing.

Dennis

Kurt Laughlin wrote:

So early cars didn't have roofwalks at all, the brakemen just walked on the roof (or what appeared to be the roof)?

No. There are 1867 Central Pacific photos which clearly show running boards, and the roofs appear to be OUTSIDE metal roofs. One of these photos is in my SP Freight Cars, Vol. 4. The great majority of cars in subsequent years DID have running boards to provide a level walking surface.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Dennis Storzek wrote:

DOUBLE BOARD ROOFS The older of the two, it is just what the name implies, two layers of boards with the joints staggered . . .

Often with some kind of "waterproof" layer, such as tarpaper, between the layers. This usage goes back at least as far as 1880. Dennis is right about the grooving to direct water flow, which was often retained even with a "waterproof" layer.

INSIDE METAL ROOFS The inside metal roof, which consisted of light gauge metal panels fitted between the carlines, and a T&G board covering . . .

As these were thin-gauge steel sheet, they were often applied between two board layers. That was certainly the widespread arrangement by 1900 for "inside" roofs. Otherwise the sheet metal had to be attached to the bottom of the board roof.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

The Harriman stock cars, now available in HO from Red Caboose,

had

board roofs. (I doubt they were planks; drawings suggest T&G.)

Wow! Something Tony and I can agree on :-)

Merriam Webster Online defines PLANK as follows:

"A heavy thick board; especially : one 2 to 4 inches (5 to 10
centimeters) thick and at least 8 inches (20 centimeters) wide."

Few if any railroad car roofs were made of planks; most wood roofs
were made of boards, and fall into two common varieties:

DOUBLE BOARD ROOFS The older of the two, it is just what the name
implies, two layers of boards with the joints staggered. Well
illustrated in Voss' turn of the century work on carbuilding practice,
the boards were often worked with half round grooves on each side of
the joint in an attempt to divert as much water ass possible. The
lower level would have a single half round groove centered under the
joint, so what water came through the joints in the first layer ran
out the end at the eaves rather than seeping through the second layer.
Because of the grooves, these can look like V grooved T&G in photos,
and some may have had T&G substituted from time to time. These were
last used on stock cars, as they were cheap, and livestock was able to
stand some dripping from the roof without damage. Because these roofs
were typically two layers of 13/16" boards, for a total thickness of 1
5/8", they look thick enough to be planks to the casual observer.

INSIDE METAL ROOFS When the use of sheet metal was first considered
for car roofing, there were two major concerns; trainmen would slip on
the slick metal surface, and their feet would damage the roof. The
answer was the inside metal roof, which consisted of light gauge metal
panels fitted between the carlines, and a T&G board covering. While to
the casual observer these appear to be wood roofs, the wood is only a
protective covering for the sheet metal below, which actually keeps
the water out of the car. The spotting feature of these roofs is a
rather prominent fascia board, spaced a bit away from the car side to
make a space for the water to drain out. Of course, including running
boards and lateral platforms at the ladders solved the problem of
trainmen slipping, and various outside metal roofs and solid steel
roofs gained in popularity thereafter. URTX seemed to favor these
roofs quite late; I believe we have one at the Illinois Railway Museum
that is on a wood URTX reefer retired from service in the sixties.

Dennis

The Harriman stock cars, now available in HO from Red Caboose, had board roofs. (I doubt they were planks; drawings suggest T&G.)

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

CB&Q SM16 and derivative stock cars had planked roofs through the BN merger.
With the sides of the car mostly open I guess a little roof leaking on the cargo was not a major concern for stock cars.
Charlie Vlk

The PRR K8 stock car had a longitudinally planked roof!


regards,

Andy Miller

What common freight cars had planked roofs in the mid '40s?

I think the Fowler box cars from both Canadian roads still had them.
C&NW's older single sheathed box cars too. Erie & NYC stock cars. A
couple of meat reefers too (Swift .....).

Anyone think of any others?

Ed