ROAD NAME NUMBER CAR TYPE LOAD TO Manufr
CN 475916 Box Paper Incline IM/Sylvan
CN 414593 Box Lumber Builders/MC L Westfld
CP 236378 Box Lumber Builders/MC L Tichy


To put all these recent information to practical use I currently have
three Canadian box cars out of a fleet of over 100 box cars. The
first model is numbered for an actual car that was on the RR with a
load of paper. It is an Intermountain car with a Sylvan flat panel
roof and the ends that are similar to those on a PS1, but with
vertical strap like protrusions. The second model (Westerfield) 36'
SS, I most have picked up at a swap meet because I have no info on
that number series, so I gave the car a load of lumber. The last car
(Tichy) single sheath is also numbered for a car that was on the RR
with the correct load.

I have two lumber yards I can spot the cars of lumber at to unload
and a ramp to unload the paper. Big question: Then what? Do I reload
them with cement, feed, fertilizer, or grain and send them back
north? If so, do I weigh them? The cement, feed, fertilizer are all
bagged, I know they didn't weigh the bagged cement, how `bout the
grain? Probably not. Or, do I send them north empty?

Thanks to all who answer,
Clark Propst
MC IA

--- In STMFC@..., "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:

Clark,

The elevators I worked in had certified scales and the scale tickets
went to the railroad when shipping.

P Scheuerman

To put all these recent information to practical use I currently have
I know they didn't weigh the bagged cement, how `bout the
grain? Probably not. Or, do I send them north empty?

Thanks to all who answer,
Clark Propst
MC IA

The elevators I worked in had certified scales and the scale tickets
went to the railroad when shipping.

P Scheuerman

Are you talking about the scale inside the elevator structure? If I
remember correctly they used a 'batch' type scale at the top of the
internal grain leg.
Thanks I forgot about those,
Clark Propst

Clark,

I don't know for a fact, but I would be very surprised if
the US would be shipping grain to Canada, one of the world's major grain
producers. Canada has been exporting grain for probably a hundred years. Anyone
have the facts on this?

CJ Riley

--- rockroll50401 <cepropst@...> wrote:

ROAD NAME NUMBER CAR TYPE LOAD TO Manufr
CN 475916 Box Paper Incline IM/Sylvan
CN 414593 Box Lumber Builders/MC L Westfld
CP 236378 Box Lumber Builders/MC L Tichy


To put all these recent information to practical use I currently have
three Canadian box cars out of a fleet of over 100 box cars. The
first model is numbered for an actual car that was on the RR with a
load of paper. It is an Intermountain car with a Sylvan flat panel
roof and the ends that are similar to those on a PS1, but with
vertical strap like protrusions. The second model (Westerfield) 36'
SS, I most have picked up at a swap meet because I have no info on
that number series, so I gave the car a load of lumber. The last car
(Tichy) single sheath is also numbered for a car that was on the RR
with the correct load.

I have two lumber yards I can spot the cars of lumber at to unload
and a ramp to unload the paper. Big question: Then what? Do I reload
them with cement, feed, fertilizer, or grain and send them back
north? If so, do I weigh them? The cement, feed, fertilizer are all
bagged, I know they didn't weigh the bagged cement, how `bout the
grain? Probably not. Or, do I send them north empty?

Thanks to all who answer,
Clark Propst
MC IA

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I understand that Canada can only grow spring wheat. Because of their very cold winters. I worked for International Milling Co in Salina Ks. Most of the wheat grown in the good ol US of A is winter wheat. If you want a good patent flour you use winter wheat with about 10% of spring wheat in it. So if Canada is going to grind good flour they need to import winter wheat.
The difference in the two wheats you may ask is winter wheat is planted in the fall and the spring wheat is planted in the spring of the year. Winter wheat is the better of the two
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...

Canada-US grain trade is a complex issue, and in recent times rather more heat than light has been shed around it due to issues of a political nature, which are out of scope for STMFC. However, some basic facts may be helpful in understanding trade and transportation patterns, and deciding how to "reload" those models of Canadian boxcars on US steam-era layouts.

While one might like to think that "grain is grain" in fact there are various kinds of grains (wheat, oats, barley etc) and within each there are various varieties, grades etc. Since wheat is by far the most important, this note will be made briefer by focusing on wheat.

Canada is a much smaller producer of wheat than the US, and is not among the largest world producers. However, Canada's small population uses only about a third of its wheat production, so Canada has a reliable surplus available for export. Canada is the world's leading exporter of hard red spring wheat and durum (used for pasta), which are premium products that sell for a premium price. However, Canada's wheat exports in the STMFC era accounted for only about 20 per cent of world wheat trade, compared to the US with around 40-45%. Both these figures have been dropping in recent years (beyond the scope of STMFC.)

The US gets around 3 per cent of its wheat from imports, nearly all of it from Canada, and nearly all of it in the premium grades of hard red spring and durum. This is used to make semolina for pasta and as a blending feedstock to raise the protein content of flours made from lesser-protein-content domestic US wheat. Six US states account for over half the usage of Canadian wheat, being Minnesota, New York, Illinois, Ohio, Missouri and Virginia. In our era of interest, modest numbers of boxcars bearing Canadian wheat (some Canadian cars, some returning US cars) could reasonably be modeled inbound to such facilities.

Canada does not import significant quantities of wheat, in the order of a tenth of a per cent to a half of a per cent of its exports depending on the year chosen for review. Some wheat does move from the US to Canada but in such tiny amounts that it would have to be considered very atypical.

So the answer to the question about "reloading" a model Canadian boxcar with wheat to be sent back to Canada ... well, it's not impossible, but likely to be a pretty rare occurrence in real life.

Doug Rhodes

Clark,

Only weights that were acceptable for trade were scale weights.
If the elevator had a track scale they should have been able to get a
WWIB weight agreement and then all was well.

Bucket weights were meaningless. They were not even good guesses. The dry
commodities would wear out the steel buckets on the legs so no two buckets
carried the same amount.

Large terminal elevators had track scales and every car was weighed before
it was emptied.

Customers that did not have scales only accepted scale weights or WWIB.
They were paying for both the product and the freight.

Scrap yards always operated on a destination weight basis. The carrier had
to weigh on the last available scale and then the empty was weighed on the
same scale. They often had scales of their own but did not like to get
involved with WWIB agreements.

Russ

Grain weather it be corn, wheat or what ever weighs so much per bushel. Grain was shipped by the bushel when I was on the RRs. The grain elevators had an agreement with the RRs on weight. We never weighted a grain car.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...

I don't know for a fact, but I would be very surprised if
the US would be shipping grain to Canada,

No, no, the northbound grain would have been ship(ped) out of Duluth MN-
Superior WI.
Clark Propst

Bucket weights were meaningless. They were not even good guesses.

The dry

commodities would wear out the steel buckets on the legs so no two

buckets

carried the same amount.

Russ

Russ, I wasn't talking about the grain leg (elevator) its self, but a
hopper that the leg dumped into. When this hopper was filled to a
certain weight it would dump into the loading chute. A counter
tripped by the hopper dumping kept track of how many loads were
dumped into a car...thus the weight could be figured.

All I'm asking is: Would a RR that had a scale in a town weigh cars
of grain loaded there? I'm talking corn, oats, and soybeans, not
wheat.

Box cars could have different grain type levels marked inside the car
to help proper loading.

Actually, I remember interveiwing a guy that worked at the elevator I
model at the time I model and he only referenced to capacities in
bushels. From my notes: A boxcar could carry 2000 bushels of corn or
1800 bushels of soybeans.

Clark Propst

Grain was shipped by the bushel
We never weighted a grain car.
Larry Jackman

Thanks Larry, Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas Clark,

Your Canadian cars:
- CN 475916 was built by the National Steel Car Co of Hamilton, Ontario about 1937 (I will verify the date when I'm home later in the week). This is one of the earlier AAR style cars built for the CN - the style of end is referred to by Canadian modellers as NSC-1. Interesting car, the roof and ends make it quite different from most of its type built in the US - but for a proto-type modeller I found the most interesting and challenging is the piping arrangement resulting from the location of the brake gear, all 3 major components are on the same side of the car.
- CN 414593 is a Fowler car (a previous discussion on this group) built between 1917 and 1923 for one of the predecessores of the Canadian National. By the 1950's these were used primarily for grain shipments within Canada - with close to 3200 still listed in revenue service in April 1959.
- CP 236378 these were built in 1920/21 as grain cars and originally had hopper doors centred on the underside of the car directly under the side doors. With Canada declaring war on Germany along with the rest of the Commonwealth in Sept 1939 the railways could no longer afford dedicated cars, thus by mid 1940 the hopper doors were removed and the cars converted to general service. The Tichy kit produces an excellent model of the post-war version with one standout feature missing - and this is easy to correct with a few pieces of Evergreen Styrene and Grandt Line 1-1/2" NBW sets (again once home I will get you the proper dimensions if you're interested).

For operations on your layout "DO NOT RELOAD THE CARS - THEY MUST RETURN HOME EMPTY". The cars were not built in the United States and as such can not be used in revenue service in the US. They may not legally be reloaded in the for any reason.

I wish you and everyone else on this group the very best the holiday season can bring and a very prosperous 2007.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...> wrote:
ROAD NAME NUMBER CAR TYPE LOAD TO Manufr
CN 475916 Box Paper Incline IM/Sylvan
CN 414593 Box Lumber Builders/MC L Westfld
CP 236378 Box Lumber Builders/MC L Tichy

To put all these recent information to practical use I currently have
three Canadian box cars out of a fleet of over 100 box cars. The
first model is numbered for an actual car that was on the RR with a
load of paper. It is an Intermountain car with a Sylvan flat panel
roof and the ends that are similar to those on a PS1, but with
vertical strap like protrusions. The second model (Westerfield) 36'
SS, I most have picked up at a swap meet because I have no info on
that number series, so I gave the car a load of lumber. The last car
(Tichy) single sheath is also numbered for a car that was on the RR
with the correct load.

I have two lumber yards I can spot the cars of lumber at to unload
and a ramp to unload the paper. Big question: Then what? Do I reload
them with cement, feed, fertilizer, or grain and send them back
north? If so, do I weigh them? The cement, feed, fertilizer are all
bagged, I know they didn't weigh the bagged cement, how `bout the
grain? Probably not. Or, do I send them north empty?

Thanks to all who answer,
Clark Propst
MC IA





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On 25-Dec-06, at 12:46 PM, Jim Peters wrote:

Your Canadian cars:
- CN 475916 was built by the National Steel Car Co of Hamilton, Ontario about 1937 (I will verify the date when I'm home later in the week).

Built by National Steel Car in 7/38. CN later rebuilt this car to 423271 in 4/72 as part of their 1960s-70s-80s boxcar refurbishment programs.

- CN 414593 is a Fowler car (a previous discussion on this group) built between 1917 and 1923 for one of the predecessores of the Canadian National.

More specifically, built by National Steel Car in 3/18 as CGR 552443.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net