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How long did Frisco's USRA Boxcars last with wood sides?
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Russ Strodtz wrote:
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Yes, the ORER's are a great resource. Would have to be cautious about those older cars that are shown by individual number. They may or may not exist and there may be others that do exist but are not listed. One thing to look at is the place on the page that shows when that road updated it's listings. It does not always match the cover date.This is certainly true, though the "un-updated" entries became much rarer after, say, 1920. I would dispute that a car was listed though no longer in existence (at the time the listing was submitted), unless an error was made. But there are certainly examples of cars out of service awaiting work, which would be de-listed for awhile, then re-listed when the work was done. There are also the cars which have been de-listed but not yet scrapped or sold--I would regard those as trivial examples unless they got re-listed later.
I think that one thing that happens in the present must have also been true in the steam era. The Mechanical Department's do not want an excessive amount of bad order equipment showing against their records. It is just as easy to delete it.Ah, but on most roads the Mechanical Department did not do the ORER listings. It would usually be the Valuation Department, who really did not suffer from the discomforts of the Mechanical side.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
Yes, the ORER's are a great resource. Would have to be cautious about those
older cars that are shown by individual number. They may or may not exist
and there may be others that do exist but are not listed. One thing to look
at is the place on the page that shows when that road updated it's listings.
It does not always match the cover date.
Many roads also took retired equipment away from the Mechanical Department
and turned it over to the Material Department or a Purchasing and Sales
Department. At times sales are made where the buyer does not complete the
transaction. In these cases the equipment ends up in the limbo of "Sold but
not delivered". It may not even be offered again.
I think that one thing that happens in the present must have also been true
in the steam era. The Mechanical Department's do not want an excessive
amount of bad order equipment showing against their records.
It is just as easy to delete it.
Russ
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older cars that are shown by individual number. They may or may not exist
and there may be others that do exist but are not listed. One thing to look
at is the place on the page that shows when that road updated it's listings.
It does not always match the cover date.
Many roads also took retired equipment away from the Mechanical Department
and turned it over to the Material Department or a Purchasing and Sales
Department. At times sales are made where the buyer does not complete the
transaction. In these cases the equipment ends up in the limbo of "Sold but
not delivered". It may not even be offered again.
I think that one thing that happens in the present must have also been true
in the steam era. The Mechanical Department's do not want an excessive
amount of bad order equipment showing against their records.
It is just as easy to delete it.
Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, 05 February, 2007 11:13
Subject: Re: [STMFC] How long did Frisco's USRA Boxcars last with wood
sides?
On Feb 5, 2007, at 6:21 AM, David Smith wrote:
> In the October 1955 ORER, 76 cars in that number series do not have
> steel sides noted, as best I can tell, but I am a novice ORER reader.
>
> Which brings me to a couple of questions. Is the absence of a special
> note sufficient evidence that the car is in its original condition? Is
> there a way to tell from the ORER itself what that original condition
> was beyond the dimensions of the car and door? It would seem like
> there
> is not, but I am not steeped in the ways of ORER divination. Thanks
> for
> any enlightenment!
Dave, by themselves the ORERs are somewhat limited as information
sources (though still very valuable). It helps if you have a number of
them for a period of some years, so that you can trace the history of a
particular group of cars. In the case of the Frisco cars, I was able
to determine which cars remained in their original form because they
are listed by number in the notes and I had a photo of one whose number
appeared in the list.
Richard Hendrickson
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, 05 February, 2007 11:13
Subject: Re: [STMFC] How long did Frisco's USRA Boxcars last with wood
sides?
On Feb 5, 2007, at 6:21 AM, David Smith wrote:
> In the October 1955 ORER, 76 cars in that number series do not have
> steel sides noted, as best I can tell, but I am a novice ORER reader.
>
> Which brings me to a couple of questions. Is the absence of a special
> note sufficient evidence that the car is in its original condition? Is
> there a way to tell from the ORER itself what that original condition
> was beyond the dimensions of the car and door? It would seem like
> there
> is not, but I am not steeped in the ways of ORER divination. Thanks
> for
> any enlightenment!
Dave, by themselves the ORERs are somewhat limited as information
sources (though still very valuable). It helps if you have a number of
them for a period of some years, so that you can trace the history of a
particular group of cars. In the case of the Frisco cars, I was able
to determine which cars remained in their original form because they
are listed by number in the notes and I had a photo of one whose number
appeared in the list.
Richard Hendrickson
Richard Hendrickson
On Feb 5, 2007, at 6:21 AM, David Smith wrote:
Richard Hendrickson
In the October 1955 ORER, 76 cars in that number series do not haveDave, by themselves the ORERs are somewhat limited as information sources (though still very valuable). It helps if you have a number of them for a period of some years, so that you can trace the history of a particular group of cars. In the case of the Frisco cars, I was able to determine which cars remained in their original form because they are listed by number in the notes and I had a photo of one whose number appeared in the list.
steel sides noted, as best I can tell, but I am a novice ORER reader.
Which brings me to a couple of questions. Is the absence of a special
note sufficient evidence that the car is in its original condition? Is
there a way to tell from the ORER itself what that original condition
was beyond the dimensions of the car and door? It would seem like there
is not, but I am not steeped in the ways of ORER divination. Thanks for
any enlightenment!
Richard Hendrickson
David Smith <dsmith@...>
In the October 1955 ORER, 76 cars in that number series do not have
steel sides noted, as best I can tell, but I am a novice ORER reader.
Which brings me to a couple of questions. Is the absence of a special
note sufficient evidence that the car is in its original condition? Is
there a way to tell from the ORER itself what that original condition
was beyond the dimensions of the car and door? It would seem like there
is not, but I am not steeped in the ways of ORER divination. Thanks for
any enlightenment!
Dave Smith
David L. Smith, Ph.D.
Director of Professional Development
Da Vinci Science Center, Allentown, PA
http://www.davinci-center.org
Engage, Explore, Share
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
steel sides noted, as best I can tell, but I am a novice ORER reader.
Which brings me to a couple of questions. Is the absence of a special
note sufficient evidence that the car is in its original condition? Is
there a way to tell from the ORER itself what that original condition
was beyond the dimensions of the car and door? It would seem like there
is not, but I am not steeped in the ways of ORER divination. Thanks for
any enlightenment!
Dave Smith
David L. Smith, Ph.D.
Director of Professional Development
Da Vinci Science Center, Allentown, PA
http://www.davinci-center.org
Engage, Explore, Share
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:50 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] How long did Frisco's USRA Boxcars last
with wood sides?
On Jan 29, 2007, at 6:09 AM, Charlie Duckworth wrote:Good friend gave me a USRA 40' Frisco Double-sheathed car for therebuilt with
layout. I was looking through photos and see many wereplywood sides and steel sides. How long did they last with theCharlie, sorry to be slow in responding. I have a photo of wood
original double sheathed sides? My layout cutoff date is 1954.
sheathed SL-SF 127750 reweighed 6-51, and that car, as well as 221
others, are still shown in the 1-53 ORER as being wood
sheathed. So at
least some of these cars would have lasted until 1954.
Richard Hendrickson
Yahoo! Groups Links
jerryglow2
As a member of the Yahoo MOPAC list, I imagine I may eventually see it
in your photo album but how about a link to a pic of it on your layout
that all might view?
Jerry G
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in your photo album but how about a link to a pic of it on your layout
that all might view?
Jerry G
--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Duckworth" <trduck@...> wrote:
Richard - thanks! The Frisco car will soon be in service on the
Bagnell Branch.
Charlie
Charlie Duckworth <trduck@...>
Charlie, sorry to be slow in responding. I have a photo of woodat
sheathed SL-SF 127750 reweighed 6-51, and that car, as well as 221
others, are still shown in the 1-53 ORER as being wood sheathed. So
least some of these cars would have lasted until 1954.Richard - thanks! The Frisco car will soon be in service on the
Richard Hendrickson
Bagnell Branch.
Charlie
Richard Hendrickson
On Jan 29, 2007, at 6:09 AM, Charlie Duckworth wrote:
Richard Hendrickson
Good friend gave me a USRA 40' Frisco Double-sheathed car for theCharlie, sorry to be slow in responding. I have a photo of wood sheathed SL-SF 127750 reweighed 6-51, and that car, as well as 221 others, are still shown in the 1-53 ORER as being wood sheathed. So at least some of these cars would have lasted until 1954.
layout. I was looking through photos and see many were rebuilt with
plywood sides and steel sides. How long did they last with the
original double sheathed sides? My layout cutoff date is 1954.
Richard Hendrickson
Charlie Duckworth <trduck@...>
Good friend gave me a USRA 40' Frisco Double-sheathed car for the
layout. I was looking through photos and see many were rebuilt with
plywood sides and steel sides. How long did they last with the
original double sheathed sides? My layout cutoff date is 1954.
Thanks - Charlie
layout. I was looking through photos and see many were rebuilt with
plywood sides and steel sides. How long did they last with the
original double sheathed sides? My layout cutoff date is 1954.
Thanks - Charlie