Mather Box Cars


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 18, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Paul & Bernice Hillman wrote:

Of course it's true that the car's build/rebuild date is highly
relevant to the period one's modelling and has to be considered when
purchasing, painting & building a model car.

To the bottom left of the car's side doors there's a date, IE) C.R.5-
43. What does that literally mean? I presume it's the rebuild date,
as "Car Rebuilt 5-43"?
No, that's a reweigh date. C.R. stood for Chicago Ridge, Mather's main
(and only) shop. Mather cars were sometimes reweighed and restenciled
by the lessors, or by some other RR if the car was required by AAR
rules to be reweighed when off-line, but cars leased from Mather went
back to Chicago Ridge periodically for maintenance and repairs and were
usually reweighed there if they were close to coming due for
reweighing. Since you model 1947, 5-43 is an obsolete reweigh date; at
that time, AAR rules required the reweighing of most cars (except tank
and live poultry cars) at 30 month intervals or whenever repairs to the cars significantly changed their light weight (e.g., truck or wheel
replacement, replacement of K type air brakes with AB equipment).
Standard practice was to paint over the old data and stencil the new
reweigh station symbol and date over it (as well as new light weight
and load limit, if those had changed) – unless, of course, the entire
car was in need of repainting.

Richard Hendrickson


Paul Hillman
 

Thanks Richard for that great input about Mather cars and their
markings. Didn't know about that info.

I'd just purchased your book today, "Focus on Freight Cars, Vol.I",
through Speedwitch, and am awaiting it's excellent detail content. I
Love SS/OSB freight cars and I can foretell, that I don't think I
will be disappointed.

Thanks again, Paul Hillman
***************************************************************

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

On Feb 18, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Paul & Bernice Hillman wrote:
****************************************************************
Of course it's true that the car's build/rebuild date is highly
relevant to the period one's modelling and has to be considered when
purchasing, painting & building a model car.

To the bottom left of the car's side doors there's a date, IE) C.R.5-
43. What does that literally mean? I presume it's the rebuild date,
as "Car Rebuilt 5-43"
****************************************************************
No, that's a reweigh date. C.R. stood for Chicago Ridge, Mather's
main (and only) shop. Mather cars were sometimes reweighed and
restenciled by the lessors, or by some other RR if the car was
required by AAR rules to be reweighed when off-line, but cars leased
from Mather went back to Chicago Ridge periodically for maintenance
and repairs and were usually reweighed there if they were close to
coming due for reweighing. Since you model 1947, 5-43 is an obsolete
reweigh date; at that time, AAR rules required the reweighing of most
cars (except tank and live poultry cars) at 30 month intervals or
whenever repairs to the cars significantly changed their light weight
(e.g., truck or wheel replacement, replacement of K type air brakes
with AB equipment). Standard practice was to paint over the old data
and stencil the new reweigh station symbol and date over it (as well
as new light weight and load limit, if those had changed) – unless,
of course, the entire car was in need of repainting.

Richard Hendrickson


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Paul & Bernice Hillman"
<chris_hillman@...> wrote:

On Feb 18, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Paul & Bernice Hillman wrote:
****************************************************************
Of course it's true that the car's build/rebuild date is highly
relevant to the period one's modelling and has to be considered when
purchasing, painting & building a model car.
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@> wrote:


... Standard practice was to paint over the old data
and stencil the new reweigh station symbol and date over it (as well
as new light weight and load limit, if those had changed) – unless,
of course, the entire car was in need of repainting.

Richard Hendrickson
Which makes re-weight dates a non-issue when buying model freightcars.
Since many, if not most, of the cars in service were running with the
station symbol and date applied over a patch of fresh and different
looking paint, simply paint over the existing date, or cover it with a
small rectangle cut from pre-painted decal sheet, and add the new info
with decals. The same procedure can be used with the journal repack
information usually stenciled over the right truck, which also was
changed periodically. Air brake equipment was also serviced
periodically and the date stenciled on the car, but as it was
stenciled on the reservoir, road grime on freightcars quickly hid it.

These periodic inspection dates are still applied to freightcars
today, but since the introduction of the black "consolidated stencil"
in the sixties, all the dates are stick-on numbers, and we no longer
see the painted patches behind the stenciled information.

Dennis


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill Williams wrote:
I have seen (and sometimes done when in a hurry to get a car on the layout) the reweigh dates just covered over with weathering when the car was otherwise properly painted for the modeled period. Now I am wondering if this date would have been an area where weathering would have been cleaned off (also a good modeling technique for ladders, grabs, etc.)each time the car was loaded. Just how incorrect is it to run a car with a weathered over reweigh date?
If it's a "NEW" date, it can be weathered like the rest of the car. Otherwise, it would obviously be usual for it to be less weathered than the rest. But it's easy to fix: paint a fresh patch and add a "recent" date. Dry transfers are one easy way to do it. One of the easiest lettering corrections there is, and a nice detail in appearance.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


bill_d_goat
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Paul & Bernice Hillman"
<chris_hillman@> wrote:

On Feb 18, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Paul & Bernice Hillman wrote:
****************************************************************
Of course it's true that the car's build/rebuild date is highly
relevant to the period one's modelling and has to be considered
when
purchasing, painting & building a model car.
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@>
wrote:


... Standard practice was to paint over the old data
and stencil the new reweigh station symbol and date over it (as
well
as new light weight and load limit, if those had changed) –
unless,
of course, the entire car was in need of repainting.

Richard Hendrickson
Which makes re-weight dates a non-issue when buying model
freightcars.
Since many, if not most, of the cars in service were running with
the
station symbol and date applied over a patch of fresh and different
looking paint, simply paint over the existing date, or cover it
with a
small rectangle cut from pre-painted decal sheet, and add the new
info
with decals. The same procedure can be used with the journal repack
information usually stenciled over the right truck, which also was
changed periodically. Air brake equipment was also serviced
periodically and the date stenciled on the car, but as it was
stenciled on the reservoir, road grime on freightcars quickly hid
it.

These periodic inspection dates are still applied to freightcars
today, but since the introduction of the black "consolidated
stencil"
in the sixties, all the dates are stick-on numbers, and we no longer
see the painted patches behind the stenciled information.

Dennis
I have seen (and sometimes done when in a hurry to get a car on the
layout) the reweigh dates just covered over with weathering when the
car was otherwise properly painted for the modeled period. Now I am
wondering if this date would have been an area where weathering would
have been cleaned off (also a good modeling technique for ladders,
grabs, etc.)each time the car was loaded.
Just how incorrect is it to run a car with a weathered over reweigh
date?
Bill Williams


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bill_d_goat" <billdgoat@...> wrote:


I have seen (and sometimes done when in a hurry to get a car on the
layout) the reweigh dates just covered over with weathering when the
car was otherwise properly painted for the modeled period. Now I am
wondering if this date would have been an area where weathering would
have been cleaned off (also a good modeling technique for ladders,
grabs, etc.)each time the car was loaded.
Just how incorrect is it to run a car with a weathered over reweigh
date?
Bill Williams
In many cases, things that disappear under weathering at the distance
we view our models from (rarely closer than a scale 80 feet) would
still be discernable to a man standing a foot or two away from it,
like the car inspector would be. I'd say that the majority of soon to
expire re-weigh dates were caught by the Carmen inspecting inbound
interchange, as they were also looking for out-of-date brakes and
journal re-packs. When any of the three dates were found to be
expired, the car made a detour to the RIP track to have the situation
corrected. This would occur on whatever road the car happened to be
on, whether empty or loaded, although the car had to be empty to
perform the re-weigh. The road performing the service billed the
owning road a standard fee.

So, the dates could get pretty dirty. This is certainly true of the
air brake date, which rarely shows up in photos. By the time the date
on the side of the car was so grimy as to be illegible, what color
patch it had been applied to was well hidden, also. At that point,
someone with a need to know the date would wipe it off so he could
read it. Since someone was looking for this date very time a car
arrived at a major yard, they wouldn't stay that dirty for long, so I
wouldn't think that a very high proportion of cars would have their
dates completely covered.

Dennis


Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Dennis,

Based on actual experience the re-weigh dates and journal re-pack dates
were not closely monitored in interchange inspections, at least on the
CB&Q. When roller bearings arrived in quantities they started out with
fairly short re-lube periods. Carmen were instructed to monitor these
and any cars over date were bad ordered. In general I would say that
the Carmen inspected just what they were told to inspect. There was not
much point in bad ordering cars for re-weigh dates at yards that either
did not have a scale or did not use the one they had.

They even tried another visual item to call attention to these lube
dates. It was a small stenciled box with a circle of paint inside it.
At the start the colors they decided to use were white and yellow. On
a coal hopper it was rather difficult to tell one from the other.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Storzek
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 19 February, 2007 14:23
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Mather Box Cars


In many cases, things that disappear under weathering at the distance
we view our models from (rarely closer than a scale 80 feet) would
still be discernable to a man standing a foot or two away from it,
like the car inspector would be. I'd say that the majority of soon to
expire re-weigh dates were caught by the Carmen inspecting inbound
interchange, as they were also looking for out-of-date brakes and
journal re-packs. When any of the three dates were found to be
expired, the car made a detour to the RIP track to have the situation
corrected. This would occur on whatever road the car happened to be
on, whether empty or loaded, although the car had to be empty to
perform the re-weigh. The road performing the service billed the
owning road a standard fee.

So, the dates could get pretty dirty. This is certainly true of the
air brake date, which rarely shows up in photos. By the time the date
on the side of the car was so grimy as to be illegible, what color
patch it had been applied to was well hidden, also. At that point,
someone with a need to know the date would wipe it off so he could
read it. Since someone was looking for this date very time a car
arrived at a major yard, they wouldn't stay that dirty for long, so I
wouldn't think that a very high proportion of cars would have their
dates completely covered.

Dennis






Yahoo! Groups Links


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Russ Strodtz wrote:
They even tried another visual item to call attention to these lube dates. It was a small stenciled box with a circle of paint inside it. At the start the colors they decided to use were white and yellow. On a coal hopper it was rather difficult to tell one from the other.
You're not thinking of the color dots signifying cast vs. wrought wheels, are you?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Tony,

Well, I don't think so. The cars involved were CB&Q 100ton hoppers built
by Bethlehem Steel in '63 and '64. Something in my brain connects the dots
with lube intervals but it's been a long time and it could be something
different. I do recall that what color a dot had been when painted was
always an issue for debate.

These cars are not within this groups time frame. Will research the wheel
issue and if I find anything interesting will let you know individually.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 19 February, 2007 18:51
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Mather Box Cars


Russ Strodtz wrote:
> They even tried another visual item to call attention to these lube
> dates. It was a small stenciled box with a circle of paint inside it.
> At the start the colors they decided to use were white and yellow. On
> a coal hopper it was rather difficult to tell one from the other.

You're not thinking of the color dots signifying cast vs. wrought
wheels, are you?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history