P2K Mathers cars accuracy


Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Hillman
One case in point. I impetuosly purchased Walthers, Proto 2000 Series;
Mather 40ft Stock Car, GM&O
Mather 40ft boxcar, C&IM
Mather 40ft Boxcar, C&EI
It was late, I'd had a couple of beers, I liked the way the cars
looked and assumed that PROBABLY (?) the manufacturer had done their
prototype research duty. (Or "close" enough)
Now, I have to do some research, as to how close I'd come to
my "guess" at such accuracy.


Paul,

The GM&O Mathers car is wrong for your date of 1947. The Mathers cars on the
GM&O roster came from the Alton, which was absorbed in 1949. You need the
P2K Alton cars, which are decorated correct.

The C&IM car is completely screwed up. The cars are decorated with yellow
sides and black roofs and ends. The cars should correctly be painted with
orange sides and mineral red roof and ends. The lettering itself is correct.
I'm using them as-is for now, but will eventually try to "fix" the cars, by
repainting the black and attempting to "orange up" the sides with a wash and
lots of weathering.

Ray Breyer
Modeling the Peoria, IL, area circa 1949.


Paul Hillman
 

Ray,

The Walthers, GM&O stockcar, #108051, has a reweigh date of C.R.10-
51. Would that make it an 1949 Alton car? What P2K "correct" car for
1947 are you referring to? Excuse my temporary ignorance here but,
who makes it?? What are the physical differences such that the
Walthers car just couldn't be relettered/repainted/reworked?

Strange that the C&IM car has such a color mistake. Mine has a
reweigh date of C.R.5-43. C&IM never did a yellow & black scheme?

I'm modeling the Chicago area, circa 1947, with one center-point of
Dolton, Illinois, where 7 railroads crossed. Those were very
interesting RR days back then & there.

Thanks, Paul Hillman


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Breyer" <rbreyer@...> wrote:
Paul,

The GM&O Mathers car is wrong for your date of 1947. The Mathers
cars on the
GM&O roster came from the Alton, which was absorbed in 1949. You
need the
P2K Alton cars, which are decorated correct.

The C&IM car is completely screwed up. The cars are decorated with
yellow
sides and black roofs and ends. The cars should correctly be
painted with
orange sides and mineral red roof and ends. The lettering itself is
correct.
I'm using them as-is for now, but will eventually try to "fix" the
cars, by
repainting the black and attempting to "orange up" the sides with a
wash and
lots of weathering.

Ray Breyer
Modeling the Peoria, IL, area circa 1949.


Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
 

Hi Paul,

The Walthers, GM&O stockcar, #108051, has a reweigh date of C.R.10-
51. Would that make it an 1949 Alton car?
It looks like the "new" GM&O repainted Alton equipment quickly after the
merger. The 1950 ORER only lists two car types that were still lettered for
the Alton, and neither were the Mathers cars. They're listed as having GM&O
reporting marks, so I suspect that these 275 cars were sent back to Mathers
in 1949 and quickly relettered. A 10-51 repack date would make these cars
mostly appropriate for a 1952-1954 set layout.


What P2K "correct" car for 1947 are you referring to? Excuse my temporary
ignorance here but, who makes it?? What are the physical differences such
that the Walthers car just couldn't be relettered/repainted/reworked?
P2K came out with a double deck kit lettered for the Alton, P/N 30941 (also
available as RTR and as six packs of kits and RTR). They're listed as in
stock on the Walthers website. I haven't run across any photos of Alton
Mathers stock cars, so I'm running mine as they came straight out of the
box.


Strange that the C&IM car has such a color mistake. Mine has a
reweigh date of C.R.5-43. C&IM never did a yellow & black scheme?
The jury's out on C&IM colors for their Mathers cars. Some old-timers from
the area claim to remember yellow C&IM boxcars, but the only color photos
that I have show them as orange. Paul Stringham's excellent book on the C&IM
mentions them as being yellow. Until I actually see some PROOF that these
cars were at one time painted yellow and black, I'm sticking with orange and
brown.


I'm modeling the Chicago area, circa 1947, with one center-point of
Dolton, Illinois, where 7 railroads crossed. Those were very
interesting RR days back then & there.
Dolton IS a pretty interesting area to model. My new layout will be anchored
by Bloomington (NKP/P&E/IC/GM&O/ITC) and Gibson City (NKP/IC/Wabash). There
are hundreds of great interchange towns in Illinois that would make neat
layouts; too bad most modelers consider the Midwest to be less than
interesting to model!

Ray Breyer


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 21, 2007, at 7:11 AM, Ray Breyer wrote:

The Walthers, GM&O stockcar, #108051, has a reweigh date of C.R.10-
51. Would that make it an 1949 Alton car?
It looks like the "new" GM&O repainted Alton equipment quickly after the
merger. The 1950 ORER only lists two car types that were still lettered for
the Alton, and neither were the Mathers cars. They're listed as having GM&O
reporting marks, so I suspect that these 275 cars were sent back to Mathers
in 1949 and quickly relettered. A 10-51 repack date would make these cars
mostly appropriate for a 1952-1954 set layout.
Ray's statement that the Alton was acquired by the GM&O in 1949 is incorrect. The GM&O purchased the Alton in 1947 and immediately began restenciling Alton rolling stock with GM&O reporting marks. the 1/48 ORER shows the Alton's cars under the GM&O entry, as well as some Alton cars already restenciled GM&O. By 10/50, only 78 cars (all box cars) remained under Alton reporting marks.

The jury's out on C&IM colors for their Mathers cars. Some old-timers from
the area claim to remember yellow C&IM boxcars, but the only color photos
that I have show them as orange. Paul Stringham's excellent book on the C&IM
mentions them as being yellow. Until I actually see some PROOF that these
cars were at one time painted yellow and black, I'm sticking with orange and
brown.
Ray is half right. Painting the roof and ends black on the L-L C&IM models was an error. As for the color of the sides, the color reproductions on slides are, of course, notoriously unreliable, varying widely with exposure, lighting, and other variables. However, I've seen several color images of the C&IM box cars and in all of them the sides appear to be yellow, not orange. I think the color on the L-L models is just about right.

Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Ray is half right. Painting the roof and ends black on the L-L C&IM models was an error. As for the color of the sides, the color reproductions on slides are, of course, notoriously unreliable, varying widely with exposure, lighting, and other variables. However, I've seen several color images of the C&IM box cars and in all of them the sides appear to be yellow, not orange. I think the color on the L-L models is just about right.
Could the cars have been orange originally and faded toward yellow? Orange paint did that on freight cars, reefers among them.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 21, 2007, at 9:08 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Ray is half right. Painting the roof and ends black on the L-L C&IM
models was an error. As for the color of the sides, the color
reproductions on slides are, of course, notoriously unreliable,
varying widely with exposure, lighting, and other variables. However,
I've seen several color images of the C&IM box cars and in all of them
the sides appear to be yellow, not orange. I think the color on the
L-L models is just about right.
Could the cars have been orange originally and faded toward
yellow? Orange paint did that on freight cars, reefers among them.
One of the images I've seen showed a recently repainted car, and it was definitely yellow, not orange.

Richard Hendrickson