Date
1 - 9 of 9
Car travel - example
Schuyler Larrabee
OK, now I realize that one example "don't mean nuttin' " in the grand scheme of things, but this
list might find this "memorandum" interesting, as it illustrates that cars are, indeed, loaded to go
diametrically away from their home road, most likely for the convenience of the local agent.
I've discussed this "memorandum" with Malcolm Laughlin, and we agree that this is probably a sheet
in a multiple-sheet form. Most likely, this is the same typing that created the waybill, and maybe
a few other forms. As Malcolm commented, "Typists in those days had strong fingers." This
particular sheet was sent to Tom Conti Inc, evidently a beverage distributor in Jamestown NY. But
it shows that the nearly 16 tons of empty bottles (in cartons) to be returned to Montreal were
loaded into B&O 265135, routed via Black Rock on the ERIE to interchange to the CN, who's to deliver
the car. Now, according to the rules, shouldn't this car have been routed back to the B&O? Or is
this one made more complex by the rules involved with Canadian cars?
The charges aren't noted, but there's some handwritten notes saying:
648 @.75
738 @ .50
Now 1386 is the sum of those two quantities, and that's the number of the first line . . .but why
are they at two different rates? And what about the other two lines of 20 and 22 pounds?
And what brewer was at 990 Notre Dame Street W, Montreal 3, Canada?
The image I'm showing you is in the STMFC Files section, entitled "Jmstwn Conti to Montreal.jpg" I
forgot to check off "Send a notice to the list."
SGL
list might find this "memorandum" interesting, as it illustrates that cars are, indeed, loaded to go
diametrically away from their home road, most likely for the convenience of the local agent.
I've discussed this "memorandum" with Malcolm Laughlin, and we agree that this is probably a sheet
in a multiple-sheet form. Most likely, this is the same typing that created the waybill, and maybe
a few other forms. As Malcolm commented, "Typists in those days had strong fingers." This
particular sheet was sent to Tom Conti Inc, evidently a beverage distributor in Jamestown NY. But
it shows that the nearly 16 tons of empty bottles (in cartons) to be returned to Montreal were
loaded into B&O 265135, routed via Black Rock on the ERIE to interchange to the CN, who's to deliver
the car. Now, according to the rules, shouldn't this car have been routed back to the B&O? Or is
this one made more complex by the rules involved with Canadian cars?
The charges aren't noted, but there's some handwritten notes saying:
648 @.75
738 @ .50
Now 1386 is the sum of those two quantities, and that's the number of the first line . . .but why
are they at two different rates? And what about the other two lines of 20 and 22 pounds?
And what brewer was at 990 Notre Dame Street W, Montreal 3, Canada?
The image I'm showing you is in the STMFC Files section, entitled "Jmstwn Conti to Montreal.jpg" I
forgot to check off "Send a notice to the list."
SGL
ljack70117@...
Gentleman. Car rules and where cars went are two Horses of different colors. On the RRs I worked for the yard clerk on duty and the engine forman on duty set the car use rules. We cared nothing about what some one put on paper. The XXX flour mill told the agent They want 10 cars for loading by 7 AM tomorrow. The agent sends a memo to the yard office saying XXX wants 10 cars by 7 AM. The day clerks do not care about the message. Leave it for the night man. The night man comes on at 11 PM. The first thing he does is read all messages on the "spike" and he makes notes. The night engine forman is also coming on duty and is also reading the same notes. The clerk checks The yard list for MTYs and sees a string of 15 cars in south one. He points this out to the forman and says give XXX ten of those. By 7 AM the switch crew has pulled 10 MTY Box cars out of south one and set them at the XXX mill.
Please note so far nothing has been said about who owns the cars. Nobody cares. The first time the car numbers come into play is when XXX mill make a bills of lading and sends them to the RR billing office which in a small yard or towns is the agent. They make way bills and send them to the Yard office with a note that says to pull these loads and give the mill 10 more cars. The cars are put in to the train and AWAY they go.
So a B&O car got loaded to Canada. Made money did it not. Who cared what the rules were.
I would bet no body knew where this car was going until it was loaded and the bill of lading was given to the billing office. Yes the B&O car should have gone back to the B&O. But it did not so are we going to file charges against the clerk and others and sentence them to 6 months in jail. Keep the shippers happy.
Please answer a question for me. When you guys get in to the records what are you looking for? Why does it bother you that a B&O car went to Canada and not back to the B&O? Rules were made to be broken. Keep the the RR moving.
This is not intended to put anyone down. But I just do not see any reason to worry about what they did 40/50 years ago. Could we say it was because they wanted to? Just maybe it was the only MTY box car they had in the yard.
Was that an N&W hopper I saw going over Sherman Hill? Big grin 8>)
O yes One more thing. In a yards like Salina Ks the XXX mill would have called the yard office for the cars and the Chief Clerk would have made the note about the cars.
Bed Time.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Please note so far nothing has been said about who owns the cars. Nobody cares. The first time the car numbers come into play is when XXX mill make a bills of lading and sends them to the RR billing office which in a small yard or towns is the agent. They make way bills and send them to the Yard office with a note that says to pull these loads and give the mill 10 more cars. The cars are put in to the train and AWAY they go.
So a B&O car got loaded to Canada. Made money did it not. Who cared what the rules were.
I would bet no body knew where this car was going until it was loaded and the bill of lading was given to the billing office. Yes the B&O car should have gone back to the B&O. But it did not so are we going to file charges against the clerk and others and sentence them to 6 months in jail. Keep the shippers happy.
Please answer a question for me. When you guys get in to the records what are you looking for? Why does it bother you that a B&O car went to Canada and not back to the B&O? Rules were made to be broken. Keep the the RR moving.
This is not intended to put anyone down. But I just do not see any reason to worry about what they did 40/50 years ago. Could we say it was because they wanted to? Just maybe it was the only MTY box car they had in the yard.
Was that an N&W hopper I saw going over Sherman Hill? Big grin 8>)
O yes One more thing. In a yards like Salina Ks the XXX mill would have called the yard office for the cars and the Chief Clerk would have made the note about the cars.
Bed Time.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left
On Feb 24, 2007, at 8:52 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
OK, now I realize that one example "don't mean nuttin' " in the grand scheme of things, but this
list might find this "memorandum" interesting, as it illustrates that cars are, indeed, loaded to go
diametrically away from their home road, most likely for the convenience of the local agent.
I've discussed this "memorandum" with Malcolm Laughlin, and we agree that this is probably a sheet
in a multiple-sheet form. Most likely, this is the same typing that created the waybill, and maybe
a few other forms. As Malcolm commented, "Typists in those days had strong fingers." This
particular sheet was sent to Tom Conti Inc, evidently a beverage distributor in Jamestown NY. But
it shows that the nearly 16 tons of empty bottles (in cartons) to be returned to Montreal were
loaded into B&O 265135, routed via Black Rock on the ERIE to interchange to the CN, who's to deliver
the car. Now, according to the rules, shouldn't this car have been routed back to the B&O? Or is
this one made more complex by the rules involved with Canadian cars?
The charges aren't noted, but there's some handwritten notes saying:
648 @.75
738 @ .50
Now 1386 is the sum of those two quantities, and that's the number of the first line . . .but why
are they at two different rates? And what about the other two lines of 20 and 22 pounds?
And what brewer was at 990 Notre Dame Street W, Montreal 3, Canada?
The image I'm showing you is in the STMFC Files section, entitled "Jmstwn Conti to Montreal.jpg" I
forgot to check off "Send a notice to the list."
SGL
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Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
ljack70117@... wrote:
(snip)
Larry,
You laugh at the ordinary albeit rare -
On September 26th, 1941, N&W Hopper #76519 was westbound between Green River WY and Montpelier ID with a load of coal for a consignee in Pocatello. On November 20th, 1947, N&W Hopper #7681 was carrying a load of company coal between Rawlins and Laramie WY eastbound to Pine Bluff on the WY/NE state line.
Tim Gilbert
(snip)
Was that an N&W hopper I saw going over Sherman Hill? Big grin 8>)
Larry,
You laugh at the ordinary albeit rare -
On September 26th, 1941, N&W Hopper #76519 was westbound between Green River WY and Montpelier ID with a load of coal for a consignee in Pocatello. On November 20th, 1947, N&W Hopper #7681 was carrying a load of company coal between Rawlins and Laramie WY eastbound to Pine Bluff on the WY/NE state line.
Tim Gilbert
Paul <buygone@...>
I have to agree with Larry 100% on his description, it was done the same way
on the Southern Pacific at Los Angeles. What we cared about was keeping the
customer happy and getting the revenue load out of his plant. Don't spot
the empties that they want and they will short haul you on a number of loads
just to get even. Most outbound shippers needed to move product every day
just to keep their plant operating. The freight cars were their warehouse.
Welcome to the real world.
Paul C. Koehler
_____
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
ljack70117@...
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:14 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Car travel - example
Gentleman. Car rules and where cars went are two Horses of
different colors. On the RRs I worked for the yard clerk on duty and
the engine forman on duty set the car use rules. We cared nothing
about what some one put on paper. The XXX flour mill told the agent
They want 10 cars for loading by 7 AM tomorrow. The agent sends a
memo to the yard office saying XXX wants 10 cars by 7 AM. The day
clerks do not care about the message. Leave it for the night man. The
night man comes on at 11 PM. The first thing he does is read all
messages on the "spike" and he makes notes. The night engine forman
is also coming on duty and is also reading the same notes. The clerk
checks The yard list for MTYs and sees a string of 15 cars in south
one. He points this out to the forman and says give XXX ten of those.
By 7 AM the switch crew has pulled 10 MTY Box cars out of south one
and set them at the XXX mill.
Please note so far nothing has been said about who owns the cars.
Nobody cares. The first time the car numbers come into play is when
XXX mill make a bills of lading and sends them to the RR billing
office which in a small yard or towns is the agent. They make way
bills and send them to the Yard office with a note that says to pull
these loads and give the mill 10 more cars. The cars are put in to
the train and AWAY they go.
So a B&O car got loaded to Canada. Made money did it not. Who cared
what the rules were.
I would bet no body knew where this car was going until it was loaded
and the bill of lading was given to the billing office. Yes the B&O
car should have gone back to the B&O. But it did not so are we going
to file charges against the clerk and others and sentence them to 6
months in jail. Keep the shippers happy.
Please answer a question for me. When you guys get in to the records
what are you looking for? Why does it bother you that a B&O car went
to Canada and not back to the B&O? Rules were made to be broken. Keep
the the RR moving.
This is not intended to put anyone down. But I just do not see any
reason to worry about what they did 40/50 years ago. Could we say it
was because they wanted to? Just maybe it was the only MTY box car
they had in the yard.
Was that an N&W hopper I saw going over Sherman Hill? Big grin 8>)
O yes One more thing. In a yards like Salina Ks the XXX mill would
have called the yard office for the cars and the Chief Clerk would
have made the note about the cars.
Bed Time.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia <mailto:ljack70117%40adelphia.net> .net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left
On Feb 24, 2007, at 8:52 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM
on the Southern Pacific at Los Angeles. What we cared about was keeping the
customer happy and getting the revenue load out of his plant. Don't spot
the empties that they want and they will short haul you on a number of loads
just to get even. Most outbound shippers needed to move product every day
just to keep their plant operating. The freight cars were their warehouse.
Welcome to the real world.
Paul C. Koehler
_____
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
ljack70117@...
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:14 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Car travel - example
Gentleman. Car rules and where cars went are two Horses of
different colors. On the RRs I worked for the yard clerk on duty and
the engine forman on duty set the car use rules. We cared nothing
about what some one put on paper. The XXX flour mill told the agent
They want 10 cars for loading by 7 AM tomorrow. The agent sends a
memo to the yard office saying XXX wants 10 cars by 7 AM. The day
clerks do not care about the message. Leave it for the night man. The
night man comes on at 11 PM. The first thing he does is read all
messages on the "spike" and he makes notes. The night engine forman
is also coming on duty and is also reading the same notes. The clerk
checks The yard list for MTYs and sees a string of 15 cars in south
one. He points this out to the forman and says give XXX ten of those.
By 7 AM the switch crew has pulled 10 MTY Box cars out of south one
and set them at the XXX mill.
Please note so far nothing has been said about who owns the cars.
Nobody cares. The first time the car numbers come into play is when
XXX mill make a bills of lading and sends them to the RR billing
office which in a small yard or towns is the agent. They make way
bills and send them to the Yard office with a note that says to pull
these loads and give the mill 10 more cars. The cars are put in to
the train and AWAY they go.
So a B&O car got loaded to Canada. Made money did it not. Who cared
what the rules were.
I would bet no body knew where this car was going until it was loaded
and the bill of lading was given to the billing office. Yes the B&O
car should have gone back to the B&O. But it did not so are we going
to file charges against the clerk and others and sentence them to 6
months in jail. Keep the shippers happy.
Please answer a question for me. When you guys get in to the records
what are you looking for? Why does it bother you that a B&O car went
to Canada and not back to the B&O? Rules were made to be broken. Keep
the the RR moving.
This is not intended to put anyone down. But I just do not see any
reason to worry about what they did 40/50 years ago. Could we say it
was because they wanted to? Just maybe it was the only MTY box car
they had in the yard.
Was that an N&W hopper I saw going over Sherman Hill? Big grin 8>)
O yes One more thing. In a yards like Salina Ks the XXX mill would
have called the yard office for the cars and the Chief Clerk would
have made the note about the cars.
Bed Time.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia <mailto:ljack70117%40adelphia.net> .net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left
On Feb 24, 2007, at 8:52 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
OK, now I realize that one example "don't mean nuttin' " in the<http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM>
grand scheme of things, but this
list might find this "memorandum" interesting, as it illustrates
that cars are, indeed, loaded to go
diametrically away from their home road, most likely for the
convenience of the local agent.
I've discussed this "memorandum" with Malcolm Laughlin, and we
agree that this is probably a sheet
in a multiple-sheet form. Most likely, this is the same typing
that created the waybill, and maybe
a few other forms. As Malcolm commented, "Typists in those days
had strong fingers." This
particular sheet was sent to Tom Conti Inc, evidently a beverage
distributor in Jamestown NY. But
it shows that the nearly 16 tons of empty bottles (in cartons) to
be returned to Montreal were
loaded into B&O 265135, routed via Black Rock on the ERIE to
interchange to the CN, who's to deliver
the car. Now, according to the rules, shouldn't this car have been
routed back to the B&O? Or is
this one made more complex by the rules involved with Canadian cars?
The charges aren't noted, but there's some handwritten notes saying:
648 @.75
738 @ .50
Now 1386 is the sum of those two quantities, and that's the number
of the first line . . .but why
are they at two different rates? And what about the other two
lines of 20 and 22 pounds?
And what brewer was at 990 Notre Dame Street W, Montreal 3, Canada?
The image I'm showing you is in the STMFC Files section, entitled
"Jmstwn Conti to Montreal.jpg" I
forgot to check off "Send a notice to the list."
SGL
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
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Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.
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yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM
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Schuyler Larrabee
OK you guys have served the purpose I had in posting those forms. There has been obsession on this
list with how cars should be routed on prototypically operated layouts. Now, I believe that
ordinarily, you would probably see predominantly western road cars moving west on any eastern road,
and vice versa. I know some "real railroaders" who have said that their people made a real effort
to conform to the Car Service Rules. However, I believe that we shouldn't get all hung up about
this. The (possible) meat reefer being used for beer (I like the disguise notion that Tony floated)
even legitimizes "inappropriate car selections" on model railroads. Legitimizes it to a degree, not
wholesale, but within reason.
Some level of flexibility about making car assignments on our model railroads isn't unreasonable.
SGL
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
list with how cars should be routed on prototypically operated layouts. Now, I believe that
ordinarily, you would probably see predominantly western road cars moving west on any eastern road,
and vice versa. I know some "real railroaders" who have said that their people made a real effort
to conform to the Car Service Rules. However, I believe that we shouldn't get all hung up about
this. The (possible) meat reefer being used for beer (I like the disguise notion that Tony floated)
even legitimizes "inappropriate car selections" on model railroads. Legitimizes it to a degree, not
wholesale, but within reason.
Some level of flexibility about making car assignments on our model railroads isn't unreasonable.
SGL
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 10:55 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Car travel - example
I have to agree with Larry 100% on his description, it was
done the same way
on the Southern Pacific at Los Angeles. What we cared about
was keeping the
customer happy and getting the revenue load out of his plant.
Don't spot
the empties that they want and they will short haul you on a
number of loads
just to get even. Most outbound shippers needed to move
product every day
just to keep their plant operating. The freight cars were
their warehouse.
Welcome to the real world.
Paul C. Koehler
_____
From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@...
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
ljack70117@... <mailto:ljack70117%40adelphia.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:14 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Car travel - example
Gentleman. Car rules and where cars went are two Horses of
different colors. On the RRs I worked for the yard clerk on duty and
the engine forman on duty set the car use rules. We cared nothing
about what some one put on paper. The XXX flour mill told the agent
They want 10 cars for loading by 7 AM tomorrow. The agent sends a
memo to the yard office saying XXX wants 10 cars by 7 AM. The day
clerks do not care about the message. Leave it for the night man. The
night man comes on at 11 PM. The first thing he does is read all
messages on the "spike" and he makes notes. The night engine forman
is also coming on duty and is also reading the same notes. The clerk
checks The yard list for MTYs and sees a string of 15 cars in south
one. He points this out to the forman and says give XXX ten of those.
By 7 AM the switch crew has pulled 10 MTY Box cars out of south one
and set them at the XXX mill.
Please note so far nothing has been said about who owns the cars.
Nobody cares. The first time the car numbers come into play is when
XXX mill make a bills of lading and sends them to the RR billing
office which in a small yard or towns is the agent. They make way
bills and send them to the Yard office with a note that says to pull
these loads and give the mill 10 more cars. The cars are put in to
the train and AWAY they go.
So a B&O car got loaded to Canada. Made money did it not. Who cared
what the rules were.
I would bet no body knew where this car was going until it was loaded
and the bill of lading was given to the billing office. Yes the B&O
car should have gone back to the B&O. But it did not so are we going
to file charges against the clerk and others and sentence them to 6
months in jail. Keep the shippers happy.
Please answer a question for me. When you guys get in to the records
what are you looking for? Why does it bother you that a B&O car went
to Canada and not back to the B&O? Rules were made to be broken. Keep
the the RR moving.
This is not intended to put anyone down. But I just do not see any
reason to worry about what they did 40/50 years ago. Could we say it
was because they wanted to? Just maybe it was the only MTY box car
they had in the yard.
Was that an N&W hopper I saw going over Sherman Hill? Big grin 8>)
O yes One more thing. In a yards like Salina Ks the XXX mill would
have called the yard office for the cars and the Chief Clerk would
have made the note about the cars.
Bed Time.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@adelphia <mailto:ljack70117%40adelphia.net> .net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left
On Feb 24, 2007, at 8:52 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:OK, now I realize that one example "don't mean nuttin' " in the<http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM
grand scheme of things, but this
list might find this "memorandum" interesting, as it illustrates
that cars are, indeed, loaded to go
diametrically away from their home road, most likely for the
convenience of the local agent.
I've discussed this "memorandum" with Malcolm Laughlin, and we
agree that this is probably a sheet
in a multiple-sheet form. Most likely, this is the same typing
that created the waybill, and maybe
a few other forms. As Malcolm commented, "Typists in those days
had strong fingers." This
particular sheet was sent to Tom Conti Inc, evidently a beverage
distributor in Jamestown NY. But
it shows that the nearly 16 tons of empty bottles (in cartons) to
be returned to Montreal were
loaded into B&O 265135, routed via Black Rock on the ERIE to
interchange to the CN, who's to deliver
the car. Now, according to the rules, shouldn't this car have been
routed back to the B&O? Or is
this one made more complex by the rules involved with Canadian cars?
The charges aren't noted, but there's some handwritten notes saying:
648 @.75
738 @ .50
Now 1386 is the sum of those two quantities, and that's the number
of the first line . . .but why
are they at two different rates? And what about the other two
lines of 20 and 22 pounds?
And what brewer was at 990 Notre Dame Street W, Montreal 3, Canada?
The image I'm showing you is in the STMFC Files section, entitled
"Jmstwn Conti to Montreal.jpg" I
forgot to check off "Send a notice to the list."
SGL
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
~-->
Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.
http://us.click.
<http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM> >
yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/9MtolB/TM----------------------------------------------------------
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Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
Schuyler,
The brewer is "The National Breweries, Ltd." This car contain cardboard
boxes of
empty bottles. Contents are: 1386 cartons with 24 each 11 1/2 ounces.
Then: 1 carton with 12 each 28 ounce bottles and 1 carton with 6 each 28
ounce bottles.
Both then and now beer cartons, bottles, and kegs can normally be returned
free.
They can also be consolidated into one car if the other car numbers are
cited.
In this case it does appear they will be charged for the return movement.
The complicated tariff's of the past very often charged the "First" XXX at
such
a rate and the "Excess" at a much lower rate. This was done to encourage the
customer to load cars to their cubic capacity. As to the two odd cartons
that do
not look like they are being charged for the tariff may have only mentioned
the
more common smaller bottle. I'm sure some rate clerk in the accounting
department
at the destination may have thought differently and would have had the
Clerk/Agent make out a corrected freight bill. The difference would have
been $1.00.
Routing: These empty beer tariffs almost always required the car be returned
the
reverse of the loaded route.
Bills of lading were normally three sheets. The actual bill of lading was on
the
top and had to be signed by the Agent. The railroad did not get this copy.
Second
copy was normally called a shipping order. This is what the railroad used to
prepare a waybill. The memorandum was usually the last copy. These were used
for different purposes. The local or switch job may have been given these so
they knew where the cars were going. The local office may have had to file
the shipping order with the waybill and kept these memorandum's in a file
just as backups.
Russ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The brewer is "The National Breweries, Ltd." This car contain cardboard
boxes of
empty bottles. Contents are: 1386 cartons with 24 each 11 1/2 ounces.
Then: 1 carton with 12 each 28 ounce bottles and 1 carton with 6 each 28
ounce bottles.
Both then and now beer cartons, bottles, and kegs can normally be returned
free.
They can also be consolidated into one car if the other car numbers are
cited.
In this case it does appear they will be charged for the return movement.
The complicated tariff's of the past very often charged the "First" XXX at
such
a rate and the "Excess" at a much lower rate. This was done to encourage the
customer to load cars to their cubic capacity. As to the two odd cartons
that do
not look like they are being charged for the tariff may have only mentioned
the
more common smaller bottle. I'm sure some rate clerk in the accounting
department
at the destination may have thought differently and would have had the
Clerk/Agent make out a corrected freight bill. The difference would have
been $1.00.
Routing: These empty beer tariffs almost always required the car be returned
the
reverse of the loaded route.
Bills of lading were normally three sheets. The actual bill of lading was on
the
top and had to be signed by the Agent. The railroad did not get this copy.
Second
copy was normally called a shipping order. This is what the railroad used to
prepare a waybill. The memorandum was usually the last copy. These were used
for different purposes. The local or switch job may have been given these so
they knew where the cars were going. The local office may have had to file
the shipping order with the waybill and kept these memorandum's in a file
just as backups.
Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: Schuyler Larrabee
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, 24 February, 2007 19:52
Subject: [STMFC] Car travel - example
OK, now I realize that one example "don't mean nuttin' " in the grand
scheme of things, but this
list might find this "memorandum" interesting, as it illustrates that cars
are, indeed, loaded to go
diametrically away from their home road, most likely for the convenience
of the local agent.
I've discussed this "memorandum" with Malcolm Laughlin, and we agree that
this is probably a sheet
in a multiple-sheet form. Most likely, this is the same typing that
created the waybill, and maybe
a few other forms. As Malcolm commented, "Typists in those days had
strong fingers." This
particular sheet was sent to Tom Conti Inc, evidently a beverage
distributor in Jamestown NY. But
it shows that the nearly 16 tons of empty bottles (in cartons) to be
returned to Montreal were
loaded into B&O 265135, routed via Black Rock on the ERIE to interchange
to the CN, who's to deliver
the car. Now, according to the rules, shouldn't this car have been routed
back to the B&O? Or is
this one made more complex by the rules involved with Canadian cars?
The charges aren't noted, but there's some handwritten notes saying:
648 @.75
738 @ .50
Now 1386 is the sum of those two quantities, and that's the number of the
first line . . .but why
are they at two different rates? And what about the other two lines of 20
and 22 pounds?
And what brewer was at 990 Notre Dame Street W, Montreal 3, Canada?
The image I'm showing you is in the STMFC Files section, entitled "Jmstwn
Conti to Montreal.jpg" I
forgot to check off "Send a notice to the list."
SGL
Yahoo! Groups Links
From: Schuyler Larrabee
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, 24 February, 2007 19:52
Subject: [STMFC] Car travel - example
OK, now I realize that one example "don't mean nuttin' " in the grand
scheme of things, but this
list might find this "memorandum" interesting, as it illustrates that cars
are, indeed, loaded to go
diametrically away from their home road, most likely for the convenience
of the local agent.
I've discussed this "memorandum" with Malcolm Laughlin, and we agree that
this is probably a sheet
in a multiple-sheet form. Most likely, this is the same typing that
created the waybill, and maybe
a few other forms. As Malcolm commented, "Typists in those days had
strong fingers." This
particular sheet was sent to Tom Conti Inc, evidently a beverage
distributor in Jamestown NY. But
it shows that the nearly 16 tons of empty bottles (in cartons) to be
returned to Montreal were
loaded into B&O 265135, routed via Black Rock on the ERIE to interchange
to the CN, who's to deliver
the car. Now, according to the rules, shouldn't this car have been routed
back to the B&O? Or is
this one made more complex by the rules involved with Canadian cars?
The charges aren't noted, but there's some handwritten notes saying:
648 @.75
738 @ .50
Now 1386 is the sum of those two quantities, and that's the number of the
first line . . .but why
are they at two different rates? And what about the other two lines of 20
and 22 pounds?
And what brewer was at 990 Notre Dame Street W, Montreal 3, Canada?
The image I'm showing you is in the STMFC Files section, entitled "Jmstwn
Conti to Montreal.jpg" I
forgot to check off "Send a notice to the list."
SGL
Yahoo! Groups Links
ed_mines
--- In STMFC@..., ljack70117@... wrote:
The clerk
Are the box cars segregated in the yard any way? Does the line contain
cars of all descriptions and conditions including 50 ft. and auto cars?
I think a flour mill would reject a hide loading car. Some shippers may
not be able to use 36 ft. cars or might need 50 ft. cars for light
loadings like furniture.
Wouldn't some shippers specify that they wanted clean cars of cars with
certain roof heights or something else? Would these be picked out of
the line?
Ed
The clerk
checks The yard list for MTYs and sees a string of 15 cars in souththose.
one. He points this out to the forman and says give XXX ten of
Are the box cars segregated in the yard any way? Does the line contain
cars of all descriptions and conditions including 50 ft. and auto cars?
I think a flour mill would reject a hide loading car. Some shippers may
not be able to use 36 ft. cars or might need 50 ft. cars for light
loadings like furniture.
Wouldn't some shippers specify that they wanted clean cars of cars with
certain roof heights or something else? Would these be picked out of
the line?
Ed
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Larry Jackman wrote:
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
The clerk checks The yard list for MTYs and sees a string of 15 cars in south one. He points this out to the forman and says give XXX ten of those.In reply, Ed Mines wrote:
Are the box cars segregated in the yard any way? Does the line contain cars of all descriptions and conditions including 50 ft. and auto cars?Excellent points, Ed, and of course you are right. But Larry may have meant that the cars were of no special character (i.e. no hide loading cars or 50-ft. auto parts cars), and that shipper XXX uses general-run box cars. A shipper with special requirements is OBVIOUSLY a different matter.
I think a flour mill would reject a hide loading car. Some shippers may not be able to use 36 ft. cars or might need 50 ft. cars for light loadings like furniture.
Wouldn't some shippers specify that they wanted clean cars of cars with certain roof heights or something else? Would these be picked out of the line?
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
ljack70117@...
Well The Salina Ks UP yard kept MTY box cars all together. But there would be no hide cars in the bunch as they were hide only and returned to hide loading plant. There would be no auto box cars or no 50 ft cars in the bunch. They would be run of the mill cars for loading grain, flour and so on. As we got MTY box cars into the yard with out a waybill they would be switched to a track in the yard. As the track filled up an engine would drag them out of that track and put them in to a storage track We had six of them. South one and two. Long one and two and south long one and two. Every body in our yard knew what kind of cars were needed for ever shipper in town. So when we got the order for 10 cars to the flour mill we knew what was needed. The creamery only shipped butter out. All you had to say give Harding a car at 3 PM on Tuesday. What would you give them a Box car???? Of course not you would set a reefer at the ice dock the day before and have it iced then by 3PM it would be at the creamery. In those days there were very few 50 ft cars in general use. If an elevator ordered 50 cars for loading wheat you gave him 50 cars and some of them could be the ballast cars the UPRR put tops on for wheat loading. They just had to be tight and not leak grain out.
Most box cars were 100,000 cap with a few 80,000 cap. WE would hold the 80s back some times. But even 100 cap cars were only loaded to 80 cap and it was a car load.
What I talk about is what happened in Ks. on the Un Pac and John Santa Fe. In other parts of the country you have to make adjustments to what was done. But remember the RR workers were not idiots and knew their Part of the RR.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Most box cars were 100,000 cap with a few 80,000 cap. WE would hold the 80s back some times. But even 100 cap cars were only loaded to 80 cap and it was a car load.
What I talk about is what happened in Ks. on the Un Pac and John Santa Fe. In other parts of the country you have to make adjustments to what was done. But remember the RR workers were not idiots and knew their Part of the RR.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@...
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left
On Feb 27, 2007, at 3:17 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
Larry Jackman wrote:The clerk checks The yard list for MTYs and sees a string of 15 carsIn reply, Ed Mines wrote:
in south one. He points this out to the forman and says give XXX ten
of those.Are the box cars segregated in the yard any way? Does the line containExcellent points, Ed, and of course you are right. But Larry may
cars of all descriptions and conditions including 50 ft. and auto
cars?
I think a flour mill would reject a hide loading car. Some shippers
may not be able to use 36 ft. cars or might need 50 ft. cars for light
loadings like furniture.
Wouldn't some shippers specify that they wanted clean cars of cars
with certain roof heights or something else? Would these be picked out
of the line?
have meant that the cars were of no special character (i.e. no hide
loading cars or 50-ft. auto parts cars), and that shipper XXX uses
general-run box cars. A shipper with special requirements is OBVIOUSLY
a different matter.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
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