I bought the Trainman, "Eastern 4 Window Center Cupola Caboose", used
by the C&O, PM, C&EI etc., Item #945 (undec.)

It appears that the main model body is a pretty accurate rendition of
the prototype, as per Fritz Milhaupt of the Pere Marquette H.S., and
Bob Lehnen of the C&EI H.S., as versus the upcoming Athearn version of
the same caboose.

Two faults of the Athearn car, as I see them, are:

1-) The cupola roof-radius/contour is too high.
2-) The car, side-windows are postioned too high, right under the roof-
line rather than about 12" below the foor-line.


The Trainman caboose has, to me, for detail purposes, the following
repairable "faults":

1-) The car-end and cupola-roof, grab-irons, are molded onto the car.
These can be removed and replaced with 3-D grabs, but it's a touchy
demo-job because of the fine rivet-detail on the car-ends.
2-) The underbody brake components could/should be replaced and brake-
rigging-lines added.
3-) The trucks could be replaced, or reworked, by cutting out for the
void above the leaf-springs and changing the wheels, (the axles are too
large a dia.)
4-) The end-doors have no window openings. It is yet for me to
determine whether these doors were full, closed-panel doors without
windows or not, as per each prototype.
5-) The roof-walk is a molded-on saftey-tread type which would have to
be removed and replaced with a 3-D type.

I intend to model this caboose as a C&EI type. The brake-wheel was
vertical on the C&EI #5, and this would have to be reworked from what's
on the Trainman Car. Also, yet to be determined is whether the C&EI
caboose had a wood or steel/safety-tread roof-walk.

Over-all the car proportions seem to be a good starting-point, as
apparently no other caboose is available which is closer than the
Trainman's. The rivet detail and steel details are very fine and nicely
done. The car-side, curved grabs are applied separately. Would have
been great if they had done this with all of the grabs.

Paul Hillman

"Paul Hillman" wrote:

the upcoming Athearn version of the same caboose.

Two faults of the Athearn car, as I see them, are:

1-) The cupola roof-radius/contour is too high.
2-) The car, side-windows are postioned too high, right under the

roof-line rather than about 12" below the foor-line.

Paul,

The Athearn caboose, as stated in their information, is based upon old
MDC tooling - actually from the 1950's. It is based on a different
prototype caboose than the caboose built by Magor for the C&O, etc.
Actually, I cannot recall if the old MDC 2-window caboose was based on
any particular prototype.

Bob Witt, Indianapolis, Indiana

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Paul & Bernice Hillman" <chris_hillman@...> wrote:

I bought the Trainman, "Eastern 4 Window Center Cupola Caboose", used
by the C&O, PM, C&EI etc., Item #945 (undec.)

The Trainman caboose has, to me, for detail purposes, the following
repairable "faults":...............

Paul Hillman

Hi Paul, I've thought of making the MoPac version of the car. I'd suggest you add to your list
of repairable items revising the side steps from the cast iron "tender type" steps which are
correct for the C&O version to the wooden "conventional caboose type" steps of the C&EI and
MoPac versions of the prototype. It would seem a shame to do all of the items you list and
not change what to me is the most obvious difference. Regards, Don Smith

AFAIK the MDC / Roundhouse car was always somewhat freelanced... it kinda looks like a PRR Cabin and sorta like the C&O car.... but
likely it was designed to work on the same tooling with different side inserts as their Rock Island/ATSF-ish car. These date back to the
diecast metal era.
The cars wood cars are based on the Colorado Midland Side Door Caboose (albeit with lowered windows so the roadname could be
printed over them!!!!) that also served as the basis for the 3 Window, Outside Braced, etc. and Overton Shorty passenger cars.
Athearn could, with the excecution of new inserts, make something accurate out of this tooling as the CB&Q, ATSF, CM, MP, NYC and a host of other
railroads had 30' (over the corner posts) wood caboose cars with radial or peaked roofs. A nice wood beam truck would not only make a dead-on
Q car possible but they could be used on the Sierra Coach and Combine which have had to make do with archbar trucks instead of 5' wheelbase
passenger trucks.
If anybody from Athearn is listening I have CB&Q drawings on disc sufficient to build the prototype cars....all wood, wrought, and cast parts as
well as general arrangement drawings.....
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources

Charlie Vlk wrote:

The cars wood cars are based on the Colorado Midland Side Door

Caboose (albeit with lowered windows so the roadname could be

printed over them!!!!)

Athearn could, with the excecution of new inserts, make something

accurate out of this tooling as the CB&Q, ATSF, CM, MP, NYC and a host
of other railroads had 30' (over the corner posts) wood caboose cars
with radial or peaked roofs. A nice wood beam truck would not only
make a dead-on Q car possible but they could be used on the Sierra
Coach and Combine which have had to make do with archbar trucks
instead of 5' wheelbase passenger trucks.

If anybody from Athearn is listening I have CB&Q drawings on disc

sufficient to build the prototype cars....all wood, wrought, and cast
parts as well as general arrangement drawings.....

I thought Walthers already made a CB&Q caboose with wood beam trucks.

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7562

Bob Witt

Bob-
Walthers makes a 4- window version riding on UP wood beam trucks.
Athearn, with having tooling in both N and HO (the N Car is based on a D&RGW prototype instead of the CM)
could pick another version and do the trucks for Q (the UP and C&NW liked the design and had their own versions
which they called the "Q" Truck). There are side door, 3- window and visually different versions available in the
basic 30' carbody.
The ATSF wood caboose and other roads' are very similar... at one time St. Charles Car Company built what is the
wood equivalent of the Morrision-International wide vision car of the 60's.... a basic design car with a few variations
(trucks, window placement, details of cupola, etc.) on the same body.
The nice thing about the CB&Q prototype is that they started building them in the 1870s and some (at least from an
accounting standpoint...one never knows if any stick of wood from the original remained) made it through the BN era
almost right to the end of the use of cabooses. Most other roads had long ago replaced their wooden hacks with
something a little more modern... in the 1930s!!! So they are appropriate to trail anything from a 4-4-0 to a SD40-2.
Not bad for a car with wood and iron trucks!!!
Charlie Vlk


I thought Walthers already made a CB&Q caboose with wood beam trucks.
Bob Witt


.

Don,

Thanks for bringing up the point about the steps. I hadn't noticed
that yet and it is a very important detail factor.

I went and looked at my C&O and C&EI photos and saw that difference.

I know that the MoPac had control/influence over the C&EI off & on,
or something, and took-over/absorbed the C&EI in the 1970's, or
something to that affect. I'd have to re-research. But, did the MoPac
involvement with the C&EI produce exact or similar versions of this
caboose as a result? If so, MoPac photos/data would also contribute
to this C&EI car's detail research.

Thanks, Paul Hillman

********************************************************************
Don Smith wrote:

Hi Paul, I've thought of making the MoPac version of the car. I'd

suggest you add to your list of repairable items revising the side
steps from the cast iron "tender type" steps which are correct for
the C&O version to the wooden "conventional caboose type" steps of
the C&EI and MoPac versions of the prototype. It would seem a shame
to do all of the items you list and not change what to me is the most
obvious difference.

Regards, Don Smith