Heinz Vinegar Cars.


bdg1210 <Bruce_Griffin@...>
 

Group,

While watching a B&O video of movements in Ohio in the late 1950's I
saw a Heinz vinegar car on a train. The car was moving west from
Willard yard. It looked like something from the 1920's with its
multi-banded horizontal tanks on a flat car frame. Is there a model
for such a car? Was this an amonoly in the 1950's?

Bruce D. Griffin
Summerfield, NC


Allen Cain <allencain@...>
 

Overland did a nice brass model and they pop up on Ebay periodically but
expect to pay around $150 when you see one.



Sunshine models also did one that I expect would be excellent but I have not
seen one other than pictures. Expect to make a significant investment of
around $50 which is much less than the brass models but there are skills
required to build these wonderful kits.



AHM has a plastic model of these cars which obviously will be the lowest
price option.



I will leave it to the more knowledgeable on the list to offer input as to
which model is the most accurate for I do not know.



Good luck in the search!



Allen Cain


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 25, 2007, at 12:21 AM, bdg1210 wrote:

While watching a B&O video of movements in Ohio in the late 1950's I
saw a Heinz vinegar car on a train. The car was moving west from
Willard yard. It looked like something from the 1920's with its
multi-banded horizontal tanks on a flat car frame. Is there a model
for such a car? Was this an amonoly in the 1950's?

As of 1950, Heinz rostered 24 vinegar tank cars, not a large fleet but
one that traveled widely (there are photos of them in west coast
locations like Los Angeles and Oakland), since carload lots of vinegar
were delivered to large food processors in many parts of the country.
Cars of similar design were also operated by other food companies, e.g.
Standard Brands.

Allen Cain has summarized the available models. The AHM plastic model
was lame a clumsy stand-in at best.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Greg Martin
 

Richard writes:

As of 1950, Heinz rostered 24 vinegar tank cars, not a large fleet but one
that traveled widely (there are photos of them in west coast locations like
Los Angeles and Oakland), since carload lots of vinegar were delivered to
large food processors in many parts of the country. Cars of similar design were
also operated by other food companies, e.g. Standard Brands.

Allen Cain has summarized the available models. The AHM plastic model was
lame – a clumsy stand-in at best.

Richard Hendrickson


I have a Stan Townsend photo of a vinegar car in Salem, OR (no the SP side
of town) dated July 1971. Old and weary but a nice example of this car class
albeit beyond the scope of this list.


Greg Martin



************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Peter J. McClosky <pmcclosky@...>
 

tgregmrtn@aol.com wrote:


Richard writes:

As of 1950, Heinz rostered 24 vinegar tank cars, not a large fleet but
one
that traveled widely (there are photos of them in west coast locations
like
Los Angeles and Oakland), since carload lots of vinegar were delivered to
large food processors in many parts of the country. Cars of similar
design were
also operated by other food companies, e.g. Standard Brands.


.
Los Angeles had a Heinz plant just north (RR West) of Taylor yard, on
the Coast
line.

The junction of the 2 and 5 freeways is just about at the location of
the plant.
When I left Los Angeles (in 2005) You could still see some of the track
in the
ground in the "Vandy Camp" (sp?) site, as you got on the 2 westbound, from
San Fernando road.

I do not know when the plant was closed, or what the plant was used to make.

Peter

--
--
Peter J. McClosky
http://home.earthlink.net/~pmcclosky
pmcclosky@comcast.net


Frank Pearsall
 

The Underground Railway Press has a 1/4" drawing of the Heinz Vinegar Tank Car. The date on the drawing is May 7, 1941. It is Plan Set No. HJH-2, priced at $4.00 plus $2.50 p&h. Send to:

The Underground Railway Press
PO Box 814
Brevard, NC 28712-0814



Frank A. Pearsall

On Mar 26, 2007, at 12:40 AM, tgregmrtn@aol.com wrote:


I have a Stan Townsend photo of a vinegar car in Salem, OR (no the SP side
of town) dated July 1971.
Greg Martin


Tim O'Connor
 

I would think vinegar is made wherever grapes or apples are abundant.
I would like to know more about vinegar production -- what raw materials
were used, how they were received, and where the tank cars of vinegar
went. Vinegar is a huge commodity, but I suspect most markets must have
been within trucking distance of production facilities. Or perhaps most
vinegar was simply shipped in ordinary tank cars, or bottled and sent
in box cars? (There are modern day food processors in my area that get
freight car loads of oil, vinegar, and starches for production of salad
dressings, mayonaisse, etc.)

Tim O'Connor

Richard writes:

As of 1950, Heinz rostered 24 vinegar tank cars, not a large fleet but one
that traveled widely (there are photos of them in west coast locations like
Los Angeles and Oakland), since carload lots of vinegar were delivered to
large food processors in many parts of the country. Cars of similar design were
also operated by other food companies, e.g. Standard Brands.

Allen Cain has summarized the available models. The AHM plastic model was
lame ­ a clumsy stand-in at best.
Richard Hendrickson

I have a Stan Townsend photo of a vinegar car in Salem, OR (no the SP side
of town) dated July 1971. Old and weary but a nice example of this car class
albeit beyond the scope of this list.

Greg Martin


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Peter J. McClosky wrote:
Los Angeles had a Heinz plant just north (RR West) of Taylor yard, on the Coast line.

The junction of the 2 and 5 freeways is just about at the location of the plant. When I left Los Angeles (in 2005) You could still see some of the track in the ground in the "Vandy Camp" (sp?) site, as you got on the 2 westbound, from San Fernando road.
That would be Van De Camp, which had a huge bakery there, as well as a restaurant on San Fernando Road, delightfully close to the SP main. I remember the Heinz building, which looked more like a warehouse to me than a manufacturing facility. Does anyone know more?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Back in the late '50s I spent one Summer working in a vinegar factory in St.
Paul. Summer was a time for shipping not manufacturing. In addition to
bottled vinegar, we did bulk shipping in barrels. A boxcar full of used
whiskey barrels was received, unloaded (the fumes were enough to get you
drunk inside that boxcar on a hot Summer day), steam cleaned (my job),
filled, and shipped by truck.



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon


Paul <buygone@...>
 

Peter and Tony:



The Heinz facility was just RR East of Van De Camp's. Like Tony I think it
was a warehouse not a manufacturing plant.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 9:55 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Heinz Vinegar Cars.



Peter J. McClosky wrote:
Los Angeles had a Heinz plant just north (RR West) of Taylor yard, on
the Coast line.

The junction of the 2 and 5 freeways is just about at the location of
the plant. When I left Los Angeles (in 2005) You could still see some
of the track in the ground in the "Vandy Camp" (sp?) site, as you got
on the 2 westbound, from San Fernando road.
That would be Van De Camp, which had a huge bakery there, as
well as a restaurant on San Fernando Road, delightfully close to the SP
main. I remember the Heinz building, which looked more like a
warehouse to me than a manufacturing facility. Does anyone know more?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com> ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Peter J. McClosky <pmcclosky@...>
 

Thanks Tony and Paul,

I don't recall seeing it, although I must have driven by it many many times!

Peter
====


Paul wrote:

Peter and Tony:

The Heinz facility was just RR East of Van De Camp's. Like Tony I think it
was a warehouse not a manufacturing plant.

Paul C. Koehler

_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>] On
Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 9:55 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Heinz Vinegar Cars.

Peter J. McClosky wrote:
Los Angeles had a Heinz plant just north (RR West) of Taylor yard, on
the Coast line.

The junction of the 2 and 5 freeways is just about at the location of
the plant. When I left Los Angeles (in 2005) You could still see some
of the track in the ground in the "Vandy Camp" (sp?) site, as you got
on the 2 westbound, from San Fernando road.
That would be Van De Camp, which had a huge bakery there, as
well as a restaurant on San Fernando Road, delightfully close to the SP
main. I remember the Heinz building, which looked more like a
warehouse to me than a manufacturing facility. Does anyone know more?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com> ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



--
--
Peter J. McClosky
http://home.earthlink.net/~pmcclosky
pmcclosky@comcast.net


Jay Bingham <j.bingham@...>
 


That would be Van De Camp, which had a huge bakery there, as
well as a restaurant on San Fernando Road, delightfully close to the
SP
main. I remember the Heinz building, which looked more like a
warehouse to me than a manufacturing facility. Does anyone know more?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Not much other than one of my law partners handled Van de Camp's
Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the 90s. Basically the assets were sold in an
orderly fashion including the name.

Jay Bingham
Pacific Palisades,CA


Douglas Harding
 

Tim there was a vinegar production facility on the north side of Rogers,
Ark. along side the Frisco tracks. It was torn down a few years ago in the
name of progress. But they had very large wooden vertical slat tanks along
the tracks. Also remember seeing what I could call very large (use with a
forklift) apple crates stacked outside the building. Pictures were taken,
but for a friend who was interested in vinegar plants at that time. I do not
have the photos, sorry.

From: www.rogersarkansas.com
In the late 1800s and early 1900s, orchards surrounded Rogers. Along the
railroad tracks were produce houses, apple evaporators where apples were
sliced and dried, and an enormous apple-cider-vinegar plant. ..... By the
1920s, Rogers had grown to over 3,000 residents. The Apple Blossom
Festivals, held each spring from 1923 through 1927, attracted thousands of
people to Rogers to see the floats, tour the orchards in bloom, and see the
Apple Blossom Queen crowned. But year after year bad weather plagued the
events. The apple industry itself also was in decline since disease and
insects had begun to wreak havoc in the orchards. The festival ended, and
soon poultry replaced apples as the main agricultural product.

It apparently was a Speas Vinegar plant:
http://www.speasvinegar.com/olgregory/ This site has a few historic photos.


Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
www.iowacentralrr.org

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2:31 PM


Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I would think vinegar is made wherever grapes or apples are abundant.
I would like to know more about vinegar production -- what raw
materials were used, how they were received, and where the tank cars
of vinegar went. Vinegar is a huge commodity, but I suspect most
markets must have been within trucking distance of production
facilities. Or perhaps most vinegar was simply shipped in ordinary
tank cars, or bottled and sent in box cars? (There are modern day
food processors in my area that get freight car loads of oil,
vinegar, and starches for production of salad dressings, mayonaisse,
etc.)
In 1920 Fleishman's merged w/ Standard Brands, keeping the latter's name for
corporate purposes. Fleishman's, as you may recognize, makes yeast. Turns
out that for many years, vinegar was a byproduct of making yeast. The
alcohol produced by the yeast was distilled into higher concentrations and
then a certain bacteria was added that converted the alcohol into vinegar.
Aside from yeast cakes going into the domestic food market, large quantities
of yeast went to commercial bakeries to leaven bread.

I've never heard of liquid yeast being transported in tank cars, so I
imagine the yeast factories tended to be near major cities (and their
bakeries). As we know vinegar was shipped by rail, so perhaps it was going
to food processors that were located closer to particular growing areas.

Take central California as an example: The Standard Brands plant was in
east Oakland (torn down about 2 years ago). Several bakeries were located a
few miles to the north, probably more in San Francisco and San Jose. Heinz
had a major operation in Berkeley 15 miles to the north, and Hunt's food
another in Hayward, 10 or so miles to the south (in the old days Hayward was
a major tomato producing region). The central valley, a couple of hours to
the east, is a huge region for tomato and row crops. If someone pulled out
old documents that said this one plant sold vinegar thru all of central
California, from Bakersfield to Oregon, I would not be surprised.

Dave Nelson


William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Doug,

Are you talking about Atkins Pickles? Or was it Adkins Pickkles?

Whatever, I remember stopping there in 1964 for a visit and bringing home to Bartrlesville, Oklahoma, a gallon of really great pickles. They traveled by bus all the way to Florida and back before arriving on home ground.

Opps! This reply is entirely OT. Sorry. But I am sure that this pickle plant at one time produce many steam era carloads of only the best pickles known in Arkansas.

-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Mar 27, 2007, at 10:26 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Tim there was a vinegar production facility on the north side of Rogers,
Ark. along side the Frisco tracks. It was torn down a few years ago in the
name of progress. But they had very large wooden vertical slat tanks along
the tracks. Also remember seeing what I could call very large (use with a
forklift) apple crates stacked outside the building. Pictures were taken,
but for a friend who was interested in vinegar plants at that time. I do not
have the photos, sorry.

From: www.rogersarkansas.com
In the late 1800s and early 1900s, orchards surrounded Rogers. Along the
railroad tracks were produce houses, apple evaporators where apples were
sliced and dried, and an enormous apple-cider-vinegar plant. ..... By the
1920s, Rogers had grown to over 3,000 residents. The Apple Blossom
Festivals, held each spring from 1923 through 1927, attracted thousands of
people to Rogers to see the floats, tour the orchards in bloom, and see the
Apple Blossom Queen crowned. But year after year bad weather plagued the
events. The apple industry itself also was in decline since disease and
insects had begun to wreak havoc in the orchards. The festival ended, and
soon poultry replaced apples as the main agricultural product.

It apparently was a Speas Vinegar plant:
http://www.speasvinegar.com/olgregory/ This site has a few historic photos.


Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
www.iowacentralrr.org

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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2:31 PM





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John Swanson <dwlscbq@...>
 

Meyers Vinegar was located in Freeport, IL. Meyers received vinegar in bulk in both the horizontal wooden tank and vertical circular vat cars. The vinegar was repackaged in jars and shipped in refers. As to whick owners cars, I have not yet found out as Meyers has been gone for years.

Personal comment. Is there any end to the facinating things involved with this hobby?

John Swanson


boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

Back in March, Bruce Griffin sent the message below concerning Heinz
vinegar cars. A search showed a lot of responses, but none covered
the painting and lettering.

Heinz had a vinegar plant in Winchester, Va. I have seen a photo with
the plant in the background and there were 3 or 4 wooden tank cars on
the siding. I have one of the Overland cars, but I have no clue how it
should be painted and lettered. Does anyone know what color it was and
if decals were ever produced which would be correct for this car?

With regard to today's thread on brass tank car models, anyone
interested in the subject should go back and read message number
29762. Tim O'Connor's list with Richard Hendrickson's notes and
comments is like reading an encyclopedia.

John King

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bdg1210" <Bruce_Griffin@...> wrote:

Group,

While watching a B&O video of movements in Ohio in the late 1950's I
saw a Heinz vinegar car on a train. The car was moving west from
Willard yard. It looked like something from the 1920's with its
multi-banded horizontal tanks on a flat car frame. Is there a model
for such a car? Was this an amonoly in the 1950's?

Bruce D. Griffin
Summerfield, NC


James Kubanick <kuban@...>
 

In the early '60s, I worked at the Heinz plant in Pittsburgh. We occasionally received wooden vinegar tank cars on our B&O siding. All of the cars I saw were of the type that AHM attempted to model as an HO ready-to-run car. I am not familiar with the Overland car and cannot comment on how close it is to the Heinz cars we received. I can say that the prototype cars were painted in a bright yellow on the tank and the car body was a brown color. The Heinz "57" logo was painted on the tank side in blue, lettering on the brown car body was white. The cars always seemed to be very clean and well maintained, in spite of their elderly appearance. At one time, Champ offered a decal set for Heinz cars and my recollection is that it could be used for these cars, although it was a generic set for several different Heinz cars. When I left Heinz in 1963 to return to school, the B&O was still delivering an occasional vinegar car.I never saw these cars enter the plant on the PRR side although I have seen them in the Pittsburgh area on the PRR.

Jim Kubanick,
Morgantown, WV

----- Original Message -----
From: boyds1949
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Heinz Vinegar Cars.


Back in March, Bruce Griffin sent the message below concerning Heinz
vinegar cars. A search showed a lot of responses, but none covered
the painting and lettering.

Heinz had a vinegar plant in Winchester, Va. I have seen a photo with
the plant in the background and there were 3 or 4 wooden tank cars on
the siding. I have one of the Overland cars, but I have no clue how it
should be painted and lettered. Does anyone know what color it was and
if decals were ever produced which would be correct for this car?

With regard to today's thread on brass tank car models, anyone
interested in the subject should go back and read message number
29762. Tim O'Connor's list with Richard Hendrickson's notes and
comments is like reading an encyclopedia.

John King

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bdg1210" <Bruce_Griffin@...> wrote:
>
> Group,
>
> While watching a B&O video of movements in Ohio in the late 1950's I
> saw a Heinz vinegar car on a train. The car was moving west from
> Willard yard. It looked like something from the 1920's with its
> multi-banded horizontal tanks on a flat car frame. Is there a model
> for such a car? Was this an amonoly in the 1950's?
>
> Bruce D. Griffin
> Summerfield, NC
>