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preparation of styrene kits for painting
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radius158
Is there a reason to 1)sandblast a styrene kit before painting or
2) prime a styrene kit if it is already grey ???? such as an intermountain kit thanks Doug Gardner
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
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----- Original Message -----
From: radius158 Is there a reason to 1)sandblast a styrene kit before painting or 2) prime a styrene kit if it is already grey ???? such as an intermountain kit ----- Original Message ----- I have been modeling (tanks, ships, and aircraft) for 35+ years and I had never heard of grit blasting a plastic kit until I started model railroading last year. I have never had a problem with adhesion of enamel or acrylic model paints on either styrene or polyurethane resin _so long as_ the the kits were properly cleaned immediately before painting (gentle washing with dish detergent and and old, soft toothbrush, followed by a rinse and air dry). Likewise, while priming is not uncommon, I think it just hides detail and is unnecessary with proper preparation. I only prime surfaces that I've worked or modified to make sure there are no seams, cavities, or glue gobs, and even then I use the final color or another shade from the same line to contrast with the plastic. Most of this paint is removed anyway during final wet sanding. I would never use one of the "primer" paints - which seem to be quite thick - on plastic. The only issues I've had have been with vinyl tank tracks or vehicle tires and some metals. A scrubbing wash of the vinyl with mineral spirits followed by a stiff detergent scrubbing seems to have cured that problem, while metals can do with a light 600 grit sanding followed by a solvent/detergent wash. Acrylic paints also seem to stick to metals better than enamels, for some reason. I will admit that there have been a few kits back in the '80s and early '90s from the old Warsaw Pact countries and China made from some unknown polymer that felt greasy even after solvent washing and would not hold solvent cements, super glue, or epoxy - let alone paint. Howeve, I doubt you'll be running across any of them. KL
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James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
Doug,
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This is one of those topics that everyone will have a slightly differing opinion and approach. I routinely grit blast my resin models, wash them and let them air dry before spraying a grey primer on them. For plastic kits, if I've made a lot of modifications (i.e. filled holes, added rivets, removed rivets, repair surface defects, etc.) I still usually give these cars a light grit blasting; if it is a car that really didn't require those types of modifications, I have been wiping them down with a cotton ball soaked in isopropyl alcohol; I then let the car air dry, and apply a grey paint to them. I think the grey paint will give your finish coat a better "color." Regardless, I always grit blast the plastic trucks; you can mask off the holes for the axles, or otherwise plug them to prevent the grit from getting in there; I usually just blast the truck, as is, then put them in a jar of water with a drop of detergent and stick that in my ultrasonic cleaner. This usually gets all the grit out of those tiny areas and recesses on the trucks; I then use the tool sold by ReBoxx to ream out the axle bearing holes. I think grit blasting the plastic trucks gives a great weathered look for our steam era freight cars. YMMV Jim Brewer Glenwood MD
----- Original Message -----
From: radius158 To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 7:23 PM Subject: [STMFC] preparation of styrene kits for painting Is there a reason to 1)sandblast a styrene kit before painting or 2) prime a styrene kit if it is already grey ???? such as an intermountain kit thanks Doug Gardner
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radius158
What material do you sand balst with ? thankd dg
--- In STMFC@..., "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@...> wrote: differing opinion and approach. dry before spraying a grey primer on them. For plastic kits, if I've made a lot of modifications (i.e. filled holes, added rivets, removed rivets, repair surface defects, etc.) I still usually give these cars a light grit blasting; if it is a car that really didn't require those types of modifications, I have been wiping them down with a cotton ball soaked in isopropyl alcohol; I then let the car air dry, and apply a grey paint to them. I think the grey paint will give your finish coat a better "color." off the holes for the axles, or otherwise plug them to prevent the grit from getting in there; I usually just blast the truck, as is, then put them in a jar of water with a drop of detergent and stick that in my ultrasonic cleaner. This usually gets all the grit out of those tiny areas and recesses on the trucks; I then use the tool sold by ReBoxx to ream out the axle bearing holes. I think grit blasting the plastic trucks gives a great weathered look for our steam era freight cars.
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James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
I currently use Aluminum Oxide; I've purchased a bag of Baking Soda, per the suggestion of another list member, and intend to try it out eventually.
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Jim Brewer Glenwood MD
----- Original Message -----
From: radius158 To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: preparation of styrene kits for painting What material do you sand balst with ? thankd dg --- In STMFC@..., "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@...> wrote: > > Doug, > > This is one of those topics that everyone will have a slightly differing opinion and approach. > > I routinely grit blast my resin models, wash them and let them air dry before spraying a grey primer on them. For plastic kits, if I've made a lot of modifications (i.e. filled holes, added rivets, removed rivets, repair surface defects, etc.) I still usually give these cars a light grit blasting; if it is a car that really didn't require those types of modifications, I have been wiping them down with a cotton ball soaked in isopropyl alcohol; I then let the car air dry, and apply a grey paint to them. I think the grey paint will give your finish coat a better "color." > > Regardless, I always grit blast the plastic trucks; you can mask off the holes for the axles, or otherwise plug them to prevent the grit from getting in there; I usually just blast the truck, as is, then put them in a jar of water with a drop of detergent and stick that in my ultrasonic cleaner. This usually gets all the grit out of those tiny areas and recesses on the trucks; I then use the tool sold by ReBoxx to ream out the axle bearing holes. I think grit blasting the plastic trucks gives a great weathered look for our steam era freight cars. > > YMMV > > Jim Brewer > Glenwood MD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: radius158 > To: STMFC@... > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 7:23 PM > Subject: [STMFC] preparation of styrene kits for painting > > > Is there a reason to 1)sandblast a styrene kit before painting or > 2) prime a styrene kit if it is already grey ???? such as an > intermountain kit > thanks Doug Gardner > > > > > > >
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Paul Hillman
--- In STMFC@..., "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@...> wrote:
per the suggestion of another list member, and intend to try it out eventually. *********************************************************************** I have a Paasche "Air Eraser"/Sandblaster, but haven't used it for quite some time. I'm getting all my "stuff" set up again and even need to get another air-compressor. But what PSI have you been using for sandblasting? I tried using Aluminum Oxide only before, but I recall not getting good results. The compressor I had was a very small one for spray-painting, and I think it may not have produced enough PSI or Volume. Thanks, Paul Hillman
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ljack70117@...
EPA will not allow the use of the Aluminum Oxide any more. The Statue of Liberty was done with Baking soda. The work done on our walks in our condo assoc. was also done with baking soda.
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Thank you Larry Jackman Boca Raton FL ljack70117@... I was born with nothing and I have most of it left
On Apr 10, 2007, at 7:54 AM, James F. Brewer wrote:
I currently use Aluminum Oxide; I've purchased a bag of Baking Soda, per the suggestion of another list member, and intend to try it out eventually.
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Don Burn
Larry,
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When was the EPA rule? My wife is a glass artist and still gets aluminum oxide for her blasting? Don Burn
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From: <ljack70117@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: preparation of styrene kits for painting EPA will not allow the use of the Aluminum Oxide any more. The Statue
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On Apr 10, 2007, at 7:22 AM, ljack70117@... wrote:
EPA will not allow the use of the Aluminum Oxide any more. The StatueLarry, BS! (that stands of course for baking soda, not the other one) <VBG> I can go to Harbor Freight and buy Aluminum Oxide by the 25 pound tub! Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield." __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
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Marcelo Lordeiro <mrcustom@...>
Doug,
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I sandblast all styrene models before painting . I use 40 lbs pressure and the finest grain available. The primer is used not to make the model gray ( you can find primers in other colours ) but to prepare the surface to receive the paint. Different material need specific primers. I use to paint all plastic models gray to check if the surface is perfect. Marcelo Lordeiro
----- Original Message -----
From: radius158 To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 8:23 PM Subject: [STMFC] preparation of styrene kits for painting Is there a reason to 1)sandblast a styrene kit before painting or 2) prime a styrene kit if it is already grey ???? such as an intermountain kit thanks Doug Gardner ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/754 - Release Date: 9/4/2007 22:59
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James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
I have a one horsepower compressor with storage tank; for general cleaning, I usually spray the grit at 20 psi, or a little less; if I'm just trying to remove some lettering (i.e. change the car number), I usually set the gauge at about 8 psi.
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The compressor I am using is a little undersized for the blast booth; when doing a car or some trucks, it usually is not a problem; however, if I want to blast several models at once, or have a particularly large project (recently blasted a friend's B&O EM1 brass loco) it does tax the compressor. I'll eventually upgrade the compressor. Jim Brewer Glenwood MD
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul & Bernice Hillman To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 8:18 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: preparation of styrene kits for painting --- In STMFC@..., "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@...> wrote: > > I currently use Aluminum Oxide; I've purchased a bag of Baking Soda, per the suggestion of another list member, and intend to try it out eventually. > > Jim Brewer > Glenwood MD *********************************************************************** I have a Paasche "Air Eraser"/Sandblaster, but haven't used it for quite some time. I'm getting all my "stuff" set up again and even need to get another air-compressor. But what PSI have you been using for sandblasting? I tried using Aluminum Oxide only before, but I recall not getting good results. The compressor I had was a very small one for spray-painting, and I think it may not have produced enough PSI or Volume. Thanks, Paul Hillman
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ljack70117@...
The EPA made the company doing the Statue of Liberty use Baking soda. Of course you can buy Aluminum Oxide because it is used for things other than blasting but they do not come into your home and stop you from hurting yourself. I talk to the company that did our condo ( because I am a director on the board) It can not be used by them. The directives are out there from the EPA.
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Thank you Larry Jackman Boca Raton FL ljack70117@... I was born with nothing and I have most of it left
On Apr 10, 2007, at 8:28 AM, Don Burn wrote:
Larry,
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On Apr 10, 2007, at 7:54 AM, ljack70117@... wrote:
The EPA made the company doing the Statue of Liberty use Baking soda.Larry, I think that you may be confusing large scale, exterior, uncontained abrasive blasting with smaller applications. It has nothing to do with private vs commercial use. Aluminum oxide is both sold to and used by many businesses for "grit blasting" applications. Your original statement was: EPA will not allow the use of the Aluminum Oxide any more.This is patently false. It may well be that Aluminum Oxide has been banned for some applications, but it is most certainly available and LEGAL to sell and use for the application we are discussing, abrasive blasting of models. Baking soda is definitely a viable alternative, better for the environment if use in an open system and somewhat safer if accidentally inhaled, but frankly, I wouldn't use EITHER for grit blasting a model in an "open system" without serious respiratory protection (hence I use a completely enclosed booth). Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield." __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
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Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
My current understanding is that virtually all, if not all of the "primer" paints available to us as modelers are nothing more than just another color or formulation of ordinary paint. However, I note that some, most, or all (??) listers are still reporting that they are still applying a "primer" coat prior to any "finishing" coats of paint. Now, I can understand why on occasion I might like to apply a nice gray coat of primer- 1) to better enable a transition to a lighter color finish coat without paint buildup; or 2) to make it easier to physically handle a model prior to any finish coating, but-- what else?
Although I have not looked lately, Scalecoat has specifically noted that with the use of their paints, no primer is necessary- and I have followed their advice in this regard successfully for some time. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento
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Richard Hendrickson
On Apr 10, 2007, at 8:37 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:
My current understanding is that virtually all, if not all of the I'll second Denny's observations here. The best primer is a base coat of the color the model is to be painted. That's been my experience with solvent-based paints like Scale Coat and Testor's Modelmaster. YMMV, of course, particularly if you're using water-based paints, with which I have little experience (all of it negative). Richard Hendrickson
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SUVCWORR@...
Larry,
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I have no doubt what you are saying is correct. The EPA would prohibit the use of Aluminium oxide for an outdoor cleaning where the object and the surface beneath the object are not enclosed by scaffolding covered with an impervious material. The grit being collected and recycled without any offsite migration of the grit or the paint. It was impractical to enclose the Statute of Liberty or a concrete walkway, thus the use of Aluminum Oxide would be prohibited. Your error is in taking this very well defined restriction and extrapolating it to all uses of aluminum oxide. It just isn't so. Using AO in a booth or other enclosure is not restricted in any manner and with proper preparation, it can be used outdoors. Just need to meet all the regulations and jump through all the hoops. Standing in your garage blasting rust off an old lawn mower blade is acceptable as long as the doors and windows are closed. The garage is containment and the only person you are potentially harming is yourself. Just make sure you claen up all the grit. Preferably with a vacuum. While I do not work for the EPA, the government agency for which I do work is responsible for enforcing the Air Quality regulations locally. Rich Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: ljack70117@... To: STMFC@... Sent: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: preparation of styrene kits for painting The EPA made the company doing the Statue of Liberty use Baking soda. Of course you can buy Aluminum Oxide because it is used for things other than blasting but they do not come into your home and stop you from hurting yourself. I talk to the company that did our condo ( because I am a director on the board) It can not be used by them. The directives are out there from the EPA. Thank you Larry Jackman Boca Raton FL ljack70117@... I was born with nothing and I have most of it left On Apr 10, 2007, at 8:28 AM, Don Burn wrote: Larry, Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
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Accupaint Primer is a different formulation than their regular paint,
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which is necessary to adhere to brass and helps with resin too. I have used Accupaint over other paints used as primers too, but one has to be careful about compatibility. The AP Primer is only available in light gray. AP sticks to styrene likes nobody's business, however. (Probably because the thinner contains MEK.) Also the AP Primer does not bleed through the overcoat, unlike regular AP colors which will blend when one is laid over another. (Sometimes this is good, sometimes not.) I also bought a small bottle of black nail polish someone recommended. It is supposed to stick like crazy to delrin and other slippery plastics. In some cases these are the only things that need to be 'primed'. Failing that, I grit blast the delrin parts. Tim O'Connor
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On Apr 10, 2007, at 8:37 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:My current understanding is that virtually all, if not all of the
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Charlie Vlk
The world is getting really stupid.
Using Baking Soda as an enviromentally sensitive abrasive on concrete???? Well, according to the news last night we won't even have that much longer.... a State Senator in Missouri is proposing restrictions on the sale of baking soda because (as he thinks everybody should know) baking soda is a key component in the creation of crack-cocaine. I don't recall voting for the repeal of Darwin's Law..... better get over to Harbor Freight and buy up aluminium oxide while you can get it.... maybe let your wife go over to the grocery store while your doing that so you can get enough baking soda to keep your refrig smelling sweet too..... Charlie Vlk
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dang! i put the used-up baking soda and alum oxide in the garden
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to keep the slugs off the marijuana plants! now what am I gonna do? next thing you know i'll have to take down the meth lab... Tim "crack modeler" O'Connor
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From: "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> The world is getting really stupid.
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ljack70117@...
I do not think I would joke about having a Meth lab. Some nut on here will take you at your word, turn you in and they will locate where you live and raid you. I would hate to see them smash open all you RR models looking for your stash.
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Thank you Larry Jackman Boca Raton FL ljack70117@... I was born with nothing and I have most of it left
On Apr 10, 2007, at 2:11 PM, timboconnor@... wrote:
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