"Longitudinal" hopper


David Smith
 

This car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CON-COR-LONGITUDINAL-HOPPER-ATSF-N-Scale-TRAIN_W0QQitemZ160106214900QQihZ006QQcategoryZ19123QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

has come up for discussion on n-scale. I've never seen one before,
which doesn't mean anything, but I'm curious. Is this even a
steam-era car? One poster thought it was a GA-122, which I found on a
list of ATSF diagrams as built in 1961, but the GA-123 is not
identified as a longitudinal hopper. I searched the STMFC archive and
couldn't find any mention of longitudinal hoppers. If it's out of
era, then say no more. If it is in era, is it a ballast car only or
would it have had other uses?

Thanks,
Dave
--
David L. Smith
Allentown, PA
dlsio4@gmail.com


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 18, 2007, at 7:49 AM, David Smith wrote:

This car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CON-COR-LONGITUDINAL-HOPPER-ATSF-N-Scale-
TRAIN_W0QQitemZ160106214900QQihZ006QQcategoryZ19123QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

has come up for discussion on n-scale. I've never seen one before,
which doesn't mean anything, but I'm curious. Is this even a
steam-era car? One poster thought it was a GA-122, which I found on a
list of ATSF diagrams as built in 1961, but the GA-123 is not
identified as a longitudinal hopper. I searched the STMFC archive and
couldn't find any mention of longitudinal hoppers. If it's out of
era, then say no more. If it is in era, is it a ballast car only or
would it have had other uses?
It does model a Santa Fe Ga-123 class car, of which 60 were built in
the Topeka shops in 1963 for bulk mineral (not ballast) service. So it
is out of era for the STMFC list.

Richard Hendrickson


Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

David,

While it is not a normal GA-122 it could be a conversion.
AT&SF liked to kit bash configurations. I have no
information on a GA-123 class. It appears to me that if
the body of a GA-122 was mounted on a flat car this is
what you would have.

The only longitudinal hoppers I can find at this moment
are AT&SF 77995-77999 which were built by Baldwin-Lima-
Hamilton in 1963. They are ore cars set rather high above
end frames with long lengthwise doors. Show as being used
at Hillside AZ. My first guess would be some kind of copper
ore concentrate. I'm sure the door configuration matched
what the customer had for an unloading area. That car series
was classed as GA-132.

These were not ballast cars. I do not think the doors had
any available adjustment, they were either open or closed.

Russ Strodtz

----- Original Message -----
From: David Smith
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 18 April, 2007 09:49
Subject: [STMFC] "Longitudinal" hopper


This car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CON-COR-LONGITUDINAL-HOPPER-ATSF-N-Scale-TRAIN_W0QQitemZ160106214900QQihZ006QQcategoryZ19123QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

has come up for discussion on n-scale. I've never seen one
before,
which doesn't mean anything, but I'm curious. Is this even a
steam-era car? One poster thought it was a GA-122, which I
found on a
list of ATSF diagrams as built in 1961, but the GA-123 is not
identified as a longitudinal hopper. I searched the STMFC
archive and
couldn't find any mention of longitudinal hoppers. If it's out
of
era, then say no more. If it is in era, is it a ballast car
only or
would it have had other uses?

Thanks,
Dave
--
David L. Smith
Allentown, PA
dlsio4@gmail.com


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

David Smith wrote:
I searched the STMFC archive and couldn't find any mention of longitudinal hoppers . . . is it a ballast car only or would it have had other uses?
To mention just one railroad, SP bought nearly all longitudinal hoppers until the 1960s, and they were equipped with either "Hart Selective" or "Enterprise" ballast-distributing outlets. They could also, of course, be used for other mineral cargoes as needed.
The name comes from the rotation axis of the dump doors--it was longitudinal rather than across the car, as with "conventional" hoppers. You will find the term used in Cycs.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

Russ I think you are right that the prototype car was built for
copper concentrates. SP had some really weird looking cars
built around the same time period for that commodity. That
model of a hopper car on a flat car body just looks silly IMO!

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Russ Strodtz" <sheridan@rrwebhost.com>
David,

While it is not a normal GA-122 it could be a conversion.
AT&SF liked to kit bash configurations. I have no
information on a GA-123 class. It appears to me that if
the body of a GA-122 was mounted on a flat car this is
what you would have.

The only longitudinal hoppers I can find at this moment
are AT&SF 77995-77999 which were built by Baldwin-Lima-
Hamilton in 1963. They are ore cars set rather high above
end frames with long lengthwise doors. Show as being used
at Hillside AZ. My first guess would be some kind of copper
ore concentrate. I'm sure the door configuration matched
what the customer had for an unloading area. That car series
was classed as GA-132.

These were not ballast cars. I do not think the doors had
any available adjustment, they were either open or closed.

Russ Strodtz


Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Tim,

Yes it does but the AT&SF seemed to be full of
these oddball ideas. If you take a three bay
GA-122, remove the hoppers and replace with
lengthwise doors and build up or borrow flat car
ends, that model on e-bay is what you are going
to end up with.

Somewhere I have photos of their attempt to reduce
the wind resistance of modern coal hoppers by
putting bonnets over the open end areas. The test
process even included a locomotive with a boom
sticking out about 30' forwards to put wind
measurement instruments.

The purpose built 1963 B-L-H cars are odd enough
in themselves. I don't know what their center of
gravity was but it must have been rather high.

Russ Strodtz

----- Original Message -----
From: timboconnor@comcast.net
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 18 April, 2007 12:36
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Longitudinal" hopper



Russ I think you are right that the prototype car was built for
copper concentrates. SP had some really weird looking cars
built around the same time period for that commodity. That
model of a hopper car on a flat car body just looks silly IMO!

Tim O'Connor


Tim O'Connor
 

Could these be the prototype in question?

# Ga-168 Hopper Cars Series 76700-76999 built 1969 longitudinal hoppers
# Ga-170 Hopper Cars Series 64025-64038 built 1969 copper concentrate service

Milwaukee also tried the wind resistance idea -- they built hoppers designed
with a top that was mechanically closed as the train slowly rolled. The cars had
these big 'arms' sticking up IIRC.

Tim

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Russ Strodtz" <sheridan@rrwebhost.com>
Tim,

Yes it does but the AT&SF seemed to be full of
these oddball ideas. If you take a three bay
GA-122, remove the hoppers and replace with
lengthwise doors and build up or borrow flat car
ends, that model on e-bay is what you are going
to end up with.

Somewhere I have photos of their attempt to reduce
the wind resistance of modern coal hoppers by
putting bonnets over the open end areas. The test
process even included a locomotive with a boom
sticking out about 30' forwards to put wind
measurement instruments.

The purpose built 1963 B-L-H cars are odd enough
in themselves. I don't know what their center of
gravity was but it must have been rather high.

Russ Strodtz
----- Original Message -----
From: timboconnor@comcast.net
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 18 April, 2007 12:36
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Longitudinal" hopper



Russ I think you are right that the prototype car was built for
copper concentrates. SP had some really weird looking cars
built around the same time period for that commodity. That
model of a hopper car on a flat car body just looks silly IMO!

Tim O'Connor


david zuhn
 

Milwaukee also tried the wind resistance idea -- they built hoppers designed
with a top that was mechanically closed as the train slowly rolled. The cars had
these big 'arms' sticking up IIRC.
This wasn't so much for wind resistance as for the fact that the S.D.
coal being hauled in these cars is little more than burnable dirt, and
that a significant fraction would be lost to the wind in transit if
they weren't capped. However, I don't believe much of this coal was
hauled out during the Steam Era.

--
david d zuhn, St Paul Bridge & Terminal Ry., St. Paul, Minn.
http://stpaulterminal.org/


Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Tim,

We are getting way out of scope here. Roofed coal gons, not
hoppers belonged to Big Stone Power. Those covers have been
removed. Motivation was different. The Montana Sub-Bituminous
is very fine and they were trying to prevent losing coal to
the wind going across the prairie. The arms on the roofs were
designed to work with a modified dumper. They limited the
roof's travel. Cars are still in service today without the
roofs.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: timboconnor@comcast.net
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 18 April, 2007 13:59
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Longitudinal" hopper



Could these be the prototype in question?

# Ga-168 Hopper Cars Series 76700-76999 built 1969 longitudinal
hoppers
# Ga-170 Hopper Cars Series 64025-64038 built 1969 copper
concentrate service

Milwaukee also tried the wind resistance idea -- they built
hoppers designed
with a top that was mechanically closed as the train slowly
rolled. The cars had
these big 'arms' sticking up IIRC.

Tim

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Russ Strodtz" <sheridan@rrwebhost.com>
> Tim,
>
> Yes it does but the AT&SF seemed to be full of
> these oddball ideas. If you take a three bay
> GA-122, remove the hoppers and replace with
> lengthwise doors and build up or borrow flat car
> ends, that model on e-bay is what you are going
> to end up with.
>
> Somewhere I have photos of their attempt to reduce
> the wind resistance of modern coal hoppers by
> putting bonnets over the open end areas. The test
> process even included a locomotive with a boom
> sticking out about 30' forwards to put wind
> measurement instruments.
>
> The purpose built 1963 B-L-H cars are odd enough
> in themselves. I don't know what their center of
> gravity was but it must have been rather high.
>
> Russ Strodtz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: timboconnor@comcast.net
> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 18 April, 2007 12:36
> Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Longitudinal" hopper
>
>
>
> Russ I think you are right that the prototype car was built
for
> copper concentrates. SP had some really weird looking cars
> built around the same time period for that commodity. That
> model of a hopper car on a flat car body just looks silly
IMO!
>
> Tim O'Connor



Yahoo! Groups Links


Richard Hendrickson
 

Uh, guys, not to be a grouch about it, but all these e-mails about cars
built in the 1960s are way out of era for this list.

Richard Hendrickson


Tim O'Connor
 

Richard, that is what I was trying to figure out -- if they were built
before 1961 or not. I agree since I think that they are, I haven't said
anything more about them.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Uh, guys, not to be a grouch about it, but all these e-mails about cars
built in the 1960s are way out of era for this list.

Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

The purpose built 1963 B-L-H cars are odd enough in themselves. I don't know what their center of gravity was but it must have been rather high.
It is certainly odd looking. It was evidently a B-L-H idea; I showed the demonstrator car in my volume on SP gondolas. The cars SP bought differ only slightly from the demo. I think part of the reason for the high underbody was because there were half-width longitudinal doors.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

# Ga-168 Hopper Cars Series 76700-76999 built 1969 longitudinal hoppers
# Ga-170 Hopper Cars Series 64025-64038 built 1969 copper concentrate service
Might these be just a TAD out of era for this list, Tim?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


David Smith
 

I DID say that if it was out of era, that was all I needed to know. <grin>

Dave Smith

On 4/18/07, Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> wrote:

> # Ga-168 Hopper Cars Series 76700-76999 built 1969 longitudinal
hoppers
# Ga-170 Hopper Cars Series 64025-64038 built 1969 copper concentrate
service
Might these be just a TAD out of era for this list, Tim?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com<thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history


--
David L. Smith
Allentown, PA
dlsio4@gmail.com