Freight Conductor's Train Book


Larry Fink
 

I acquired a U. P. Conductor's Train Book from Eastern Oregon with
entries near the 1948 era I'm modeling. Does anyone know what the
three-number sequence in the Remarks space represents? I suspect it
has something to do with train tonnage. Examples are 30-20-2688 or 55-
30-4818. One train has 48-0-2635 = 47-0-2599.

Thanks,
Larry Fink
Renton, Washington


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Larry Fink writes:

"I acquired a U. P. Conductor's Train Book from Eastern Oregon with
entries near the 1948 era I'm modeling. Does anyone know what the
three-number sequence in the Remarks space represents? I suspect it
has something to do with train tonnage. Examples are 30-20-2688 or 55-
30-4818."

My UP frt conductor's book shows "51 lds 30 mty 3980" which matches the loads & empties in the train. 3980 would be tonnage. In some cases, only the numbers are listed as in 70-28-4720. The conductor used X to indicate an empty followed by a letter to indicate the car type...such as "XR" for an empty reefer.

Mike Brock


Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Almost certainly Loads-Empties-Tons. The last train set
out 1 car. CB&Q usage would have usually also included
stock, as in 20-55-4-3850. No hard and fast rule, just
common usage. Now it has changed to: 75-25-11500-8005.
Length is usually more important than tonnage. It
determines where you can fit. With current locomotives
tonnage is not that big of an issue.

Russ Strodtz

----- Original Message -----
From: finkfam98055
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, 28 April, 2007 15:35
Subject: [STMFC] Freight Conductor's Train Book


I acquired a U. P. Conductor's Train Book from Eastern Oregon
with
entries near the 1948 era I'm modeling. Does anyone know what
the
three-number sequence in the Remarks space represents? I
suspect it
has something to do with train tonnage. Examples are 30-20-2688
or 55-
30-4818. One train has 48-0-2635 = 47-0-2599.

Thanks,
Larry Fink
Renton, Washington


Bill Vaughn
 

Larry when I hired out for the Santa Fe late 1970 it was loads-emties-tonnage, forth figure would be length. But in 1948 with mostly 40 footers it was not hard to figure out length.

Bill Vaughn

finkfam98055 <finkfam2@...> wrote:
I acquired a U. P. Conductor's Train Book from Eastern Oregon with
entries near the 1948 era I'm modeling. Does anyone know what the
three-number sequence in the Remarks space represents? I suspect it
has something to do with train tonnage. Examples are 30-20-2688 or 55-
30-4818. One train has 48-0-2635 = 47-0-2599.

Thanks,
Larry Fink
Renton, Washington






---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.


Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

finkfam98055 wrote:

I acquired a U. P. Conductor's Train Book from Eastern Oregon with
entries near the 1948 era I'm modeling. Does anyone know what the
three-number sequence in the Remarks space represents? I suspect it
has something to do with train tonnage. Examples are 30-20-2688 or 55-
30-4818. One train has 48-0-2635 = 47-0-2599.
Larry,

Loads/Empties/Gross Tonnage.

In what months of 1948 did your freight conductor record? Was the conductor's name JR Nelson? Between what stations on the UP was the report for?

Having parsed Summer/Fall 1941-1942 UP Wheels Reports between Green River WY and Montpelier ID, Fall 1947 and 1949 Wheel Reports between Laramie & Rawlins, and a Spring 1956 one between Grand Island & Council Bluffs, I have a lot of experience of how to organize an Excel spreadsheet for analysis of a UP Wheel Report. The result of a comparison of the Laramie-Rawlins Fall 1947 & Spring 1949 Reports is STMFC posting #51085 of February 3rd, 2006.

Tim Gilbert


Larry Fink
 

Thanks to those who responded with the answer "loads-empties-
tonnage" to my question. I uploaded an Excel spreadsheet of the
entries in the Union Pacific Conductor's Train Book to the Files
section (DeBoieConductorBook.xls). Twelve trains are listed for 1947-
1951 between Huntington - LaGrande - Reith, but complete wheel
reports are only listed for three (1947-1949). One other train has a
partial list.
Of the three complete reports, X3596 (2-8-8-0) is an eastbound
with mostly fruit reefers. X3522 (2-8-8-0) is a westbound with
mostly coal, and X1451 (F3A phase III)is eastbound with about 50%
empties and 30% loaded reefers. Only 10 cars are listed for one of
the trains X1550 (F3A phase IV), which I found on a switchlist and a
train order rather than the Conductor's book.
Tim Gilbert suggested that this book may have been a copy the
Conductor made for his personal use. That might explain why the
record is incomplete and there are so few trains over the time span.
Still, I'll take what I can get.
Those STMFC members interested in consists, or interested in
modeling the UP in the late 1940's will especially value the data.
Don't hesitate to contact me off-line if you find questionable
entries that may be due to my typographical error or the Conductor's
penmanship. I'd also be interested in your impressions and insight
about the consist - either to the group or off-line. One thing I
noticed is steam helping diesels, diesels helping diesels, and
diesels helping steam.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/DeBoieConductorBook.xls>

Larry Fink
Renton, Washington

--- In STMFC@..., Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:

finkfam98055 wrote:

I acquired a U. P. Conductor's Train Book from Eastern Oregon with
entries near the 1948 era I'm modeling. Does anyone know what the
three-number sequence in the Remarks space represents? I suspect
it
has something to do with train tonnage. Examples are 30-20-2688
or 55-
30-4818. One train has 48-0-2635 = 47-0-2599.


Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 5, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Larry Fink finkfam98055 wrote:

Thanks to those who responded with the answer "loads-empties-
tonnage" to my question. I uploaded an Excel spreadsheet of the
entries in the Union Pacific Conductor's Train Book to the Files
section (DeBoieConductorBook.xls). Twelve trains are listed for 1947-
1951 between Huntington - LaGrande - Reith, but complete wheel
reports are only listed for three (1947-1949). One other train has a
partial list.
Of the three complete reports, X3596 (2-8-8-0) is an eastbound
with mostly fruit reefers. X3522 (2-8-8-0) is a westbound with
mostly coal, and X1451 (F3A phase III)is eastbound with about 50%
empties and 30% loaded reefers. Only 10 cars are listed for one of
the trains X1550 (F3A phase IV), which I found on a switchlist and a
train order rather than the Conductor's book.
I find this to be really interesting stuff, Larry, especially since I
model the fall of 1947. So far, I've only had time to look at the
first consist on the list, X3569E, and there I note a number of details
which are questionable - no surprise, since every conductor's train
record I've ever seen consisted of barely legible chicken-scratches.
ATSF 21211 is wrong, as there were no Santa Fe box cars with that
number in the '40s. There's almost certainly a missing digit, with the
car actually being a Bx-12 rebuilt in the early '40s with an extended
height roof and renumbered in the 212xxx series. WFFX 65822 should be
WFEX 65822, and it wasn't an R30/40-21, as shown in your notes, but a
Western Fruit Express steel framed wood sheathed 40' reefer rebuilt by
FGEX in the 1940s and numbered in the 65000-66349 series. The GARTX
reporting marks are obviously wrong, since private owner reporting
marks could be no more than four characters; it's doubtless GARX. Under
URTX 4634, the correct spelling for the cargo is "rutabagas."

I can identify the SFRD reefers by class as follows:
SFRD 32586, Class Rr-23, rebuilt as a steel reefer in 1937 from an
Rr-W class USRA-design wood reefer originally built in 1920.
SFRD 33573, Class Rr-25, rebuilt as a steel reefer in 1937 from a
USRA-design wood reefer.
SFRD 33608, Class Rr-25, rebuilt as a steel reefer in 1937 from a
USRA-design wood reefer.
SFRD 7727, Class Rr-36, rebuilt as a steel reefer in 1945 from a
USRA-design wood reefer.
SFRD 8391, Class Rr-40, rebuilt as a steel reefer in 1946 from a
USRA-design wood reefer.

The SP auto car with Evans racks, SP 69687, was a class A-50-12 50'
steel double door automobile box car built in 1936.

More late when I've had time to examine the other trains in detail.

Richard Hendrickson


laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "finkfam98055" <finkfam2@...> wrote:

Thanks to those who responded with the answer "loads-empties-
tonnage" to my question. I uploaded an Excel spreadsheet of the
entries in the Union Pacific Conductor's Train Book to the Files
section (DeBoieConductorBook.xls).
This is wonderful, Larry. Thanks for transcribing it and sharing it
with us!

Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Larry Fink
 

Thanks very much for the corrections and comments, Richard. The sheet
for that train has been updated with the corrections. Note that car
#20 is SFRD 8381, not 8391 as you noted. I also just noticed that the
Conductor had a note about another 2-8-8-0 helper on the second page,
which I added. I think you'll find X3522 reinforces your earlier
comments about western coal trains.

For some reason the conductor had one car as Garx (written in cursive
with upper and lower case letters as shown) and the other clearly as
GARTX (all upper case with a script G followed by printed letters), but
like you wrote, the second must be his error. Perhaps he combined in
mind GATX and GARX, which were divisions of the same company, General
American Transportation Corp.? They certainly didn't ship pears in a
tank car!

I was surprised there were 9 different reefer companies represented on
that train where I expected to see almost all-PFE, but Tim Gilbert
wrote to me that the war-time reefer loading rule in effect up to mid-
1948 was responsible for that.

Larry
--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:
I find this to be really interesting stuff, Larry, especially since I
model the fall of 1947. So far, I've only had time to look at the
first consist on the list, X3569E, and there I note a number of
details
which are questionable - no surprise, since every conductor's train
record I've ever seen consisted of barely legible chicken-scratches.
. . .


Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Larry,

Thanks for the info. On CB&Q wheel reports were from the
rear end but setout lists were supposed to be from the
head end. Conductors had to do a lot of writing.

My observations:

X3569: Line 18 BREX 24782 is a bad number. Might be ART
or SFRD but not BREX. Think the WFEX behind is has been
mentioned by someone else. MDT 41825 would certainly be
a relic. FGEX 108999? Either wrong initials or an extra
number, probably a PFE car.

X1451: Line 28 "URTS" should be "URTX". Line 36 GN 31317,
think those cars have been discussed enough! Lines 60 thru
70 are questionable. Must be mostly PFE's.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: finkfam98055
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, 05 May, 2007 20:11
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Conductor's Train Book


Thanks to those who responded with the answer
"loads-empties-
tonnage" to my question. I uploaded an Excel spreadsheet of
the
entries in the Union Pacific Conductor's Train Book to the Files
section (DeBoieConductorBook.xls). Twelve trains are listed for
1947-
1951 between Huntington - LaGrande - Reith, but complete wheel
reports are only listed for three (1947-1949). One other train
has a
partial list.
Of the three complete reports, X3596 (2-8-8-0) is an
eastbound
with mostly fruit reefers. X3522 (2-8-8-0) is a westbound with
mostly coal, and X1451 (F3A phase III)is eastbound with about
50%
empties and 30% loaded reefers. Only 10 cars are listed for one
of
the trains X1550 (F3A phase IV), which I found on a switchlist
and a
train order rather than the Conductor's book.
Tim Gilbert suggested that this book may have been a copy
the
Conductor made for his personal use. That might explain why the
record is incomplete and there are so few trains over the time
span.
Still, I'll take what I can get.
Those STMFC members interested in consists, or interested
in
modeling the UP in the late 1940's will especially value the
data.
Don't hesitate to contact me off-line if you find questionable
entries that may be due to my typographical error or the
Conductor's
penmanship. I'd also be interested in your impressions and
insight
about the consist - either to the group or off-line. One thing
I
noticed is steam helping diesels, diesels helping diesels, and
diesels helping steam.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/DeBoieConductorBook.xls>

Larry Fink
Renton, Washington


Larry Fink
 

Russ-
You're right about the BREX. Closer inspection of the entry
indicates that the car number is 74782.

FGEX 108999 had too many 9's (10899).

Your suggestion for URTX instead of URTS is correct.

The conductor wrote UP as the reporting mark on X1451 car 60, and the
remaining 10 cars were completely blank in the reporting mark
column. I agree that they are very likely PFE, and since the car
numbers appear to be valid PFE numbers, I'll change them.

I'll update the file tonight (Sunday).

You make a good point that the uninformed should recognize that the
car order of the list is from rear, forward.

Remind me, what was the issue with GN 31317 class?

Larry

--- In STMFC@..., "Russ Strodtz" <sheridan@...> wrote:

Larry,

Thanks for the info. On CB&Q wheel reports were from the
rear end but setout lists were supposed to be from the
head end. Conductors had to do a lot of writing.

My observations:

X3569: Line 18 BREX 24782 is a bad number. Might be ART
or SFRD but not BREX. Think the WFEX behind is has been
mentioned by someone else. MDT 41825 would certainly be
a relic. FGEX 108999? Either wrong initials or an extra
number, probably a PFE car.

X1451: Line 28 "URTS" should be "URTX". Line 36 GN 31317,
think those cars have been discussed enough! Lines 60 thru
70 are questionable. Must be mostly PFE's.

Russ


Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Larry,

The issue about the 31317? Look over the messages from
the last week. The GN 31000-31300 series thread. It would
have been a little plainer if it had been 31000-31499 which
is the full 500 car series.

Thought it was a strange coincidence that you should come
up with a UP list that included one of these 500 cars when
you consider the size of the U.S. 40ft box car inventory
at that time. In 1945 there were 494 cars in that series
in service.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: finkfam98055
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, 06 May, 2007 17:05
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Conductor's Train Book


Russ-
You're right about the BREX. Closer inspection of the entry
indicates that the car number is 74782.

FGEX 108999 had too many 9's (10899).

Your suggestion for URTX instead of URTS is correct.

The conductor wrote UP as the reporting mark on X1451 car 60,
and the
remaining 10 cars were completely blank in the reporting mark
column. I agree that they are very likely PFE, and since the
car
numbers appear to be valid PFE numbers, I'll change them.

I'll update the file tonight (Sunday).

You make a good point that the uninformed should recognize that
the
car order of the list is from rear, forward.

Remind me, what was the issue with GN 31317 class?

Larry

--- In STMFC@..., "Russ Strodtz" <sheridan@...>
wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> Thanks for the info. On CB&Q wheel reports were from the
> rear end but setout lists were supposed to be from the
> head end. Conductors had to do a lot of writing.
>
> My observations:
>
> X3569: Line 18 BREX 24782 is a bad number. Might be ART
> or SFRD but not BREX. Think the WFEX behind is has been
> mentioned by someone else. MDT 41825 would certainly be
> a relic. FGEX 108999? Either wrong initials or an extra
> number, probably a PFE car.
>
> X1451: Line 28 "URTS" should be "URTX". Line 36 GN 31317,
> think those cars have been discussed enough! Lines 60 thru
> 70 are questionable. Must be mostly PFE's.
>
> Russ




Yahoo! Groups Links


Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

MDT 41825 was built as MDT 17825 in Sep 1923 and would ride the rails
until scrapped in 1953 after a 30 year career. Not exactly
a relic in Sep of 1947.


Roger Hinman

On May 6, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Russ Strodtz wrote:

MDT 41825 would certainly be
a relic.