--- In STMFC@..., Brian Ehni wrote:
Two other questions are: How much of the operating expenses of the
library are being funded thru these fees, and are the fees in line with
similar fees charged by, say, local libraries?

And how much is being funded by the government?

A bright spot - I visited Steamtown in Scranton a few years after it
opened and the staff I met had more than a few pompous,arrogant wind
bags (I almost wrote something else but I know we have some ministers
in the group).

Then I had some contact with Pat McKnight, a librarian there. He's
exactly the opposite. He's very helpful and anxious to learn. He has my
vote any day.

Ed

I've heard it said that at places like the Huntington Library in San
Marino, California and the DeGolyer Library in Dallas, Texas you
almost need divine intervention to gain access to materials, never
mind the fees.

In contrast, the library at the California State Railroad Museum in
Sacramento has insanely low copy fees, an easy-to-use online
catalog, and the most helpful librarians in the universe. So much
so that they receive a check from me on almost a monthly basis
in exchange for large copies of track diagrams and industry maps.

I guess it all depends on where you go and who you know...

Shawn Beckert

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

Uh, well, I'll stick up for the DeGolyer.

Schuyler is right. The previous director at the DeGolyer was something of a d--head but he's retired, and there is an entire new regime, very helpful and access-oriented.
This does raise the important point that personalities of archives ARE their personnel. A retirement or other departure can greatly alter what you thought you knew about a place--for better or worse. They may claim it's "just policy" but IMO it's really personality driven in most cases, and again, for better or worse.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

What irks me most is when collections are /donated/ to a museum or
whathaveyou, and then they either charge massive fees, or don't allow
access to the materials at all. I'm told this is the case with most of the
files of the former Morrissey, Fernie & Michel railway in eastern British
Columbia - all the company documents are under lock and key in Alberta...

Frank Valoczy

Tony,

Youse guys keep talking about archival fees is giving
me different ideas about sharing.

Russ

Tony,

With it being so close I decided the DeGolyer would
get a chance on anything they wanted when I'm gone.

Also have a tentative plan on my slide collection.

Hope those that are older are weighing their options
as to disposition. My wife and daughters would not
have a clue. They would even have to get an outsider
just to try and sell the stuff on ebay.

Russ

I've already decided that all of my YV stuff should go to Sacramento along
with a large enough donation to get it properly indexed into their system.
My reason for choosing Sacramento is the great job they do making their
stuff available. Although I have cut back some recently, until a couple of
years ago I was visiting the library once or twice a year at the most.
Still, Ellen recognized me when I walked in and remembered by "limited"
interest and would even mentioned new acquisitions that I might want to
check out.

Well....after writing that, I realize that maybe she remembered me only
because my interest was so limited.....<g>

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

Tony sure is right about this!

It took me 9 years and a change of employees at the Athenaeum
(Philadelphia) to get a photocopy of the "The 2-6-0 Mogul on the
Southern Pacific".

After getting it, I found it wasn't worth the time and energy I put in
to get it. (Not the library's fault, it is really miss titled! - half a
page of text, 1 picture of an SP mogul, and 1 of a PE mogul, out of 41
pictures!!!)

Peter J. McClosky
==


Anthony Thompson wrote:

--
--
Peter J. McClosky
http://home.earthlink.net/~pmcclosky
pmcclosky@...

Russ Strodtz wrote:

Tony,
With it being so close I decided the DeGolyer would get a chance on anything they wanted when I'm gone.
Also have a tentative plan on my slide collection.

It's great that you have a plan, Russ. Too many don't (or won't).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

There is no way I could put together any well illustrated railroad
book depending on institutions and paying their archival fees.

Where would we be on this STMFC list without people like Richard
Burg, the late Charles Winters, Mont Switzer, John LaRue, Ken
Retterer, and Bob's Photos? Decent darkroom work of images for $1.50
to $10 per print? Many of us have photo libraries in the hundreds to
study and discuss, of freight cars alone.

I just paid the Barriger $55 for a single photo scan. While I got
what I paid for, they have forgotten all the other pages I wanted
copied, so I have to go back and do a lot of the research over.

I've looked high and low for a worthy institution for my library and
all have crippling limitations, mostly organic and professional.
Particularly sevice, access, and cost. I'd rather give it all to a
younger person with similar interests and depth, trusting they will
add to it and provide access to fellow railfans at a reasonable cost
as I try to do.










--- In STMFC@..., destron@... wrote:

What irks me most is when collections are /donated/ to a museum or
whathaveyou, and then they either charge massive fees, or don't

allow

access to the materials at all. I'm told this is the case with most

of the

files of the former Morrissey, Fernie & Michel railway in eastern

British

Columbia - all the company documents are under lock and key in

Alberta...

Frank Valoczy

-----Original Message-----
From Shawn Beckert,

I've heard it said that at places like the Huntington Library in

San

Marino, California and the DeGolyer Library in Dallas, Texas you
almost need divine intervention to gain access to materials,

never

mind the fees.

Uh, well, I'll stick up for the DeGolyer. Several years ago when

I was

collecting drawings for the
ERIE 0-6-0 drawings I did (published in the ELHS magazine, The

Diamond) I

had collected a large
number of drawings of parts and bits, much of it from CSRRM. But

I was

missing the tender tank. One
night, the email address to the curator of the drawings there

appeared in

clickable form in an
email. "What the hell?" I thought, and sent in a request, a very

specific

request, giving number
series, railroad, etc., etc.

No email reply. I thought, "Well, THAT didn't work." But about

a week

later, a snail mail reply
showed up, and they indeed had what I wanted. Price was

reasonable, and

quick enough, the check was
written and sent.

I did think it a tad odd that the reply came by USPS, when I'd

sent in an

email, but I'm not here to
judge.

I do second the recommendation that California State RR Museum is

a great

institution.

SGL




Yahoo! Groups Links





!DSPAM:1291,46394d67236862507511042!

That is good news from DeGolyer.

Back when I was there, all copies had to be on something laughingly
called "copyright paper", stationary where the words "DeGolyer"and
all the copyright verbage were already printed in every square inch,
upon which a xerox is made. Hardly readable. Not copyable or
scannable (their objective). A complete waste of time and paper.







--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

Uh, well, I'll stick up for the DeGolyer.

Schuyler is right. The previous director at the DeGolyer was
something of a d--head but he's retired, and there is an entire new
regime, very helpful and access-oriented.
This does raise the important point that personalities of
archives ARE their personnel. A retirement or other departure can
greatly alter what you thought you knew about a place--for better

or

worse. They may claim it's "just policy" but IMO it's really
personality driven in most cases, and again, for better or worse.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Jim Mischke wrote:

There is no way I could put together any well illustrated railroad book depending on institutions and paying their archival fees.
Where would we be on this STMFC list without people like Richard Burg, the late Charles Winters, Mont Switzer, John LaRue, Ken Retterer, and Bob's Photos? Decent darkroom work of images for $1.50 to $10 per print? Many of us have photo libraries in the hundreds to study and discuss, of freight cars alone.

Let's see, that would be Keith Retterer--but I completely agree, the amateurs are a great resource in financial terms. Personally, I've never minded paying substantial fees for darkroom work IF it's good. Use fees are another matter.

I just paid the Barriger $55 for a single photo scan. While I got what I paid for, they have forgotten all the other pages I wanted copied, so I have to go back and do a lot of the research over.

That is approaching confiscatory pricing. Only a few institutions which are in the archival business charge more. But it may be worth mentioning that some newspapers charge a use fee of, yes, $125 for EACH image from their morgue. That sure does cut down on use. <no g at all>

I've looked high and low for a worthy institution for my library and all have crippling limitations, mostly organic and professional. Particularly sevice, access, and cost.

You might look into the California State Railroad Museum. I think they do quite a good job, on balance.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

James,

Don't know how this thread got started up again but I'm
still thinking thru the first time around.

Don't really see how I can justify all this ISP, Server,
and Software expense without at least making an attempt
to break even. If I can't have the cash flow to buy the
things that interest me then what's the point of the
hobby?

Maybe I'll just call them "Archival Fees". That seems to
be an acceptable wording for getting paid for your time
and expense.

Russ

The really disappointing thing about the images that you receive from some of these non-profits is that they are digital reproductions, not real photos. Furthermore, they are often scanned at minimum publication standards, which greatly limits your ability to work with them. So, in other words, despite their higher price, their images aren't as high a quality as the real photos you get from a Richard Burg or Keith Retterer or Bob's Photo.

Having said that, I am a volunteer at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. On Thursdays, I answer incoming requests for information to our archives, which has an extensive photographic collection. I think it is within the scope of my duties to see if we have any photos in our collection in which the members of the STMFC have an interest.

Assuming that it doesn't get out of hand, if you would like me to check for anything in particular, contact me off-list. If the archives has what you're interested in, then you'd simply have to submit the formal request to archivist. The museum does both scans and (ouch) digital prints.

Bob Karig
karig@...