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Preweathered Model Comment
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asychis@...
In a message dated 5/8/2007 6:52:05 AM Central Daylight Time,
STMFC@... writes: The big difference I see right now between the two hobbies is the production of "ready-to-run" armor in 1/72 scale that is pre-painted nicely, but also weathered, such as the Dragon Armor lines, which we do not have an equivalent to in HO, S, or O-scale model railroading. I wonder when someone is going to sit up and take notice of THAT currently vacant niche in the MR hobby! Can you imagine how nicely pre-weathered Kadee cars might sell? Athearn is advertising its Railbox cars available weathered. They also are trying out modern cars with painted over heralds (the grungies of today's railroading). Not to violate content rules, just to mention that there are these sorts of things happening. Perhaps someone offering steam-transition era model could do the same. Jerry Michels ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
Jerry;
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That's interesting, and may generate more sales. Much the way Kadee has done on some of their cars, painted out load limit and light weight data, re-weigh station, and re-pack data would be awfully cool on any variety of cars! It is recognizably a cost thing, but supplying that on a supplementary decal sheet would add curb appeal to any number of kits, even the RTR stuff. Might even make some of us buy kits we would otherwise pass on! Take care, Elden ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of asychis@... Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:01 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Preweathered Model Comment In a message dated 5/8/2007 6:52:05 AM Central Daylight Time,
STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> writes: The big difference I see right now between the two hobbies is the production of "ready-to-run" armor in 1/72 scale that is pre-painted nicely, but also weathered, such as the Dragon Armor lines, which we do not have an equivalent to in HO, S, or O-scale model railroading. I wonder when someone is going to sit up and take notice of THAT currently vacant niche in the MR hobby! Can you imagine how nicely pre-weathered Kadee cars might sell? Athearn is advertising its Railbox cars available weathered. They also are trying out modern cars with painted over heralds (the grungies of today's railroading). Not to violate content rules, just to mention that there are these sorts of things happening. Perhaps someone offering steam-transition era model could do the same. Jerry Michels ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. <http://www.aol.com.> |
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Rod Miller
Hi,
The big difference I see right now between the two hobbies is the productionIn O scale, Weaver offers pre-weathered versions of AFIK all of its product line (which for most volume manufacturers in O is available either in 2-rail or 3-rail). See: http://www.weavermodels.com/page20.html bottom of page. Rod |
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Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
H-mmm. Without needing any further elaboration, any "weathering" pattern is by definition alone a distinctly unique attribute. To "factory apply" such a feature is a contradiction in terms.
I would strongly urge quality manufacturers to avoid this temptation, a true dumbing-down of this hobby. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento |
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Charlie Vlk
While I agree with Denny in general, I think there might be instances where this would be a product some people would enjoy having.
The new Athearn efforts in this area seem to be, at least from what has been published about their pre-weathered line, done intelligently and with care. Not everybody wants to do every aspect of the Hobby themselves, and who knows, after they get the factory jobs on the layout they may be inspired to try it themselves since they have examples at hand to follow.... Charlie Vlk H-mmm. Without needing any further elaboration, any "weathering" pattern is by definition alone a distinctly unique attribute. To "factory apply" such a feature is a contradiction in terms. I would strongly urge quality manufacturers to avoid this temptation, a true dumbing-down of this hobby. Denny -- Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento . |
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I have factory weathering on an Sn3 SP locomotive from P-B-L,
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and it's quite lovely. I don't think I would have had the guts myself to weather a beautiful shiny piece of brass like that. So while it may not be possible to "mass produce" weathered models in China, I have to say Jimmy Booth's factory knows what it's doing. Tim O'Connor -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> I would strongly urge quality manufacturers to avoid this temptation, |
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Paul Lyons
Tim,
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" Jimmy Booth's factory" is one person---Him! Paul Lyons Laguna Niguel, CA -----Original Message-----
From: timboconnor@... To: STMFC@... Sent: Wed, 9 May 2007 10:16 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Preweathered Model Comment I have factory weathering on an Sn3 SP locomotive from P-B-L, and it's quite lovely. I don't think I would have had the guts myself to weather a beautiful shiny piece of brass like that. So while it may not be possible to "mass produce" weathered models in China, I have to say Jimmy Booth's factory knows what it's doing. Tim O'Connor -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> I would strongly urge quality manufacturers to avoid this temptation, ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. |
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Paul
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Yes, I know, but that's the problem with sweeping generalizations ain't it? Also, weathering is both an art and a skill, and it CAN be taught. I noticed that the weathering on Athearn's new pre-weathered cars is an order of magnitude better than the old Ertl stuff. And I see that on Ebay, outstanding weathering often commands a $100 premium. So somewhere between Athearn's price and that $100, I guess that there is a middle ground where a factory could "mass produce" very good weathering at $1 for an hour of labor. Whether such a trend is bad for the hobby, I don't know or care. But based on my own experience I would not expect even great factory weathering to ever become wildly popular with the mass market. We who weather are at best a majority of a small minority... Tim O'Connor -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: cobrapsl@... Tim, |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
Guys;
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I wouldn't buy a pre-weathered model to save my life. I view weathering as one of the fun things I get to do. However, what sells is another thing. I would never have guessed that RTR cars would have taken over, either, as I like to also build stuff. That is why I am not a business tycoon, but I can see trends coming, and those Dragon Armor models sell like hotcakes, regardless of what the "real" armor modelers might say. Several hobby shop owners I know have dumped their entire kit stocks to clear their shelves for them, and they sell >10 times as many. We can view anything as a lemon or lemonade. I hope that any new trend results in me getting something I want, namely another accurate freight car. Here's to new ways of selling the hobby! Elden Gatwood ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of timboconnor@... Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 4:02 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Preweathered Model Comment Paul Yes, I know, but that's the problem with sweeping generalizations ain't it? Also, weathering is both an art and a skill, and it CAN be taught. I noticed that the weathering on Athearn's new pre-weathered cars is an order of magnitude better than the old Ertl stuff. And I see that on Ebay, outstanding weathering often commands a $100 premium. So somewhere between Athearn's price and that $100, I guess that there is a middle ground where a factory could "mass produce" very good weathering at $1 for an hour of labor. Whether such a trend is bad for the hobby, I don't know or care. But based on my own experience I would not expect even great factory weathering to ever become wildly popular with the mass market. We who weather are at best a majority of a small minority... Tim O'Connor -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: cobrapsl@... <mailto:cobrapsl%40aol.com> Tim, |
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Ray Meyer
Selling what hobby? Collecting toy trains? If that's someone's bag, so be
it. But I guess I belong to a different hobby, one that prizes craftsmanship (as I suspect you do). I never understood how someone can take pride in something they bought. I would rather like to bring someone to my hobby who would like to learn how to create with his hands rather than with his wallet. I certainly can understand the retailer's position; he wants to make money. But anyone who buys RTR, puts it on the track straight from the box, and calls himself a modeler is only deceiving himself. On 5/10/07, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote:
-- Atty Raymond G. Meyer 110 E. Main St Port Washington, WI 53074 262-284-5566 rgmeyer2@... |
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Charlie Vlk
Ray-
One of the strengths of Model Railroading is that it has such a broad range of activities that you can become involved with.... Is it necessary to make "Toy Trains" and "RTR" derogatory terms? All those "out of the box" people help finance the specialty kits, parts, and scratchbuilding supplies because the sales to "your" end of the Hobby doesn't pay the rent and keep the lights on in any local hobby shop. Let's get back to our sharing our passion for Steam Era Freight Cars and stop worrying that someone else is in denial and really isn't a Modeler. Charlie Vlk |
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Ray Meyer
I am not trying to be derogatory; I am saying that I don't see the RTR
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collector and the craftsman as being in the same hobby. There is a common thread of trains but that is all. I guess I get irked when, as it has happened to me several times, I have put in a great effort to build an unusual piece of equipment or a building in great detail, and a few months later it is available RTR. My work suddenly is greatly diminished. I am also concerned that the RTR fad is taking the industry from supplying the basic materials and parts that I need to do something different. That is the reason I belong to this list - to get information that takes my efforts at craftsmanship to a higher level. And how do you build a "great model railroad" if all you are doing is rearranging the same building and rolling stock in a different pattern? I do not begrudge anyone their pleasure in how they use their free time, but my curmudgeonly self thinks the "hobby" is becoming little more than an exercise of the bourgeoisie wallet to create nothing of interest. And I will not post my carping again......... On 5/10/07, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:
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Atty Raymond G. Meyer 110 E. Main St Port Washington, WI 53074 262-284-5566 rgmeyer2@... |
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According to whom is your work diminished? Apply a little reductio
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ad adsurdum and you realize that ALL your creative work is inevitably diminished because the whole history of the postwar hobby involves the constant production of more and better models, parts, etc. If you mean only that the monetary value of your work is diminished, well, that may or may not be true. Depends on the item. And on those despicable collectors who bid up the value of the merchandise. Tim O'Connor -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ray Meyer" <rgmeyer2@...> I have put in a great effort to build an unusual piece of equipment or a |
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Frank Greene
"Ray Meyer" <rgmeyer2@...> wrote: Ray, don't be so hard on yourself! My personal satisfaction from doing the best I can to build a model will always override the knowledge that thousands of "clones" are running around or sitting on collectors' shelves. Besides, how accurate is that "clone"? Is the paint, lettering, fit and finish as good as yours? Wasn't yours first? I try not to get too wrapped up in who else has one like mine. Besides, how many models have I built based on someone else's article or clinic, and how many kits have I built following the enclosed instructions, decals, and paint suggestions? Didn't that also result in a "clone"? My point is, remember the satisfaction of completing the model and the pride of ownership, they should still be with you after you see the full color announcement of the "clone" in MR, price TBA, availability sometime in the future. Frank Greene Memphis, TN |
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Charlie Vlk
Aha, now we get to the bottom of the problem!!!!
Don't you know the only sure way to get a model produced is to finally finish a scratchbuilt or involved kitbash of your object of desire? Manufacturers have correspondents (spys) in every area of the country to report on what work is being finished so not only the item can be duplicated but also the exact paint job and roadnumber! Charlie Vlk Railroad Model Resources I guess I get irked when, as it has happened to me several times, I have put in a great effort to build an unusual piece of equipment or a building in great detail, and a few months later it is available RTR. My work suddenly is greatly diminished. . |
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destron@...
Aha, now we get to the bottom of the problem!!!!Really??? Cool! I can't wait to see the ads for the new SAL B6 from Atlas in TT scale! ;) Frank Valoczy |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Ray Meyer wrote:
But anyone who buys RTR, puts it on the track straight from the box, and calls himself a modeler is only deceiving himself.Oh, c'mon, Ray. Next you'll say that anyone who just glues on a Cal-Scale part instead of scratchbuilding it is not a modeler. Or someone who uses commercial trucks, or pre-cut basswood, or Woodland Scenics ground foam, or . . . Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Schuyler Larrabee
Ray Meyer wrote:I deleted most of this nonsensical thread, but we should all realize that there is moderation in allBut anyone who buys RTR, puts it on the track straight fromthe box,and calls himself a modeler is only deceiving himself.Oh, c'mon, Ray. Next you'll say that anyone who just glues on a things. Yep, I've bought a number of RTR equipment, and some of it HAS ended up on the track with little-to-no further work than opening the box. But those are cars which were built in somewhere between '53 and '55, as the Club railroad is set in '55. Older cars get a least a bit of weathering. But I'm still (however slowly) building some other somewhat more challenging projects, soldering on brass detail parts, making a few of them, and so on. You have to know when it makes sense to buy something already pretty much "done," and when something merits some Real Work. I'd never do the latter for the obligatory Northern Pacific box car, but to get an ERIE car, well, sure . . . . SGL |
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Ray Meyer
Thanks for all the morning laughs.
I will announce to the world that my next layout will be set in the 1890's, so all you 19th century modelers can start licking your lips about what Athearn/Kato/Bachmann et al will issue next.... ;-) -- Atty Raymond G. Meyer 110 E. Main St Port Washington, WI 53074 262-284-5566 rgmeyer2@... |
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jerryglow2
Yea, but I think that's outside of the charter topic of this list. :)
Jerry Glow --- In STMFC@..., "Ray Meyer" <rgmeyer2@...> wrote: 1890's, so all you 19th century modelers can start licking your lips aboutwhat Athearn/Kato/Bachmann et al will issue next.... ;-) |
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