Caboose truck help needed


Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Tooling for the "Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck" is finished.
This will be the next offering from Tahoe Model Works.

I need help coming up with a list of cabooses equipped with these
trucks. What I have found is listed below. Does anybody know of
others? An image of the prototype truck can be seen at:
http://gelwood.railfan.net/co/co-c804ads.jpg

ATSF #1500-2000 blt. 1924-1931
CB&Q 13500-13524 1930
CRI&P 17850-17899 1930
ERIE 04926-04975 1929, 1930
MILW 01600-01615 1929
MKT 796-820 1930
MKT 1-4 1959
MP 815-909 1929, 1930
MP 1100-1119 1930
NKP 1194-1208 1924
PM A800-A824

I also know of Georgia RR #2861 and Western Ry. of Alabama #161, both
almost identical cabooses. Anybody know the complete number series?
How about their sister road, Atlanta & West Point?

Santa Fe sold off some cabooses, some with these trucks. I know of
one going to C&S. And Rock Island put some of these trucks under
some of their wide vision cabooses. How many? Since these are both
post 1960 questions, please respond off-list at
b.leppert@...

Any help will be GREATLY appreciated.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

Brian,

The Wabash and Ann Arbor's steel cabooses rode on them.

WAB 2700-2859 160 cars built between 1939 and 1955.
AA 2830-2846 17 cars built in 1952.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


--- In STMFC@..., "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@...> wrote:

Tooling for the "Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck" is
finished.
This will be the next offering from Tahoe Model Works.

I need help coming up with a list of cabooses equipped with these
trucks. What I have found is listed below. Does anybody know of
others? An image of the prototype truck can be seen at:
http://gelwood.railfan.net/co/co-c804ads.jpg

ATSF #1500-2000 blt. 1924-1931
CB&Q 13500-13524 1930
CRI&P 17850-17899 1930
ERIE 04926-04975 1929, 1930
MILW 01600-01615 1929
MKT 796-820 1930
MKT 1-4 1959
MP 815-909 1929, 1930
MP 1100-1119 1930
NKP 1194-1208 1924
PM A800-A824

I also know of Georgia RR #2861 and Western Ry. of Alabama #161,
both
almost identical cabooses. Anybody know the complete number
series?
How about their sister road, Atlanta & West Point?

Santa Fe sold off some cabooses, some with these trucks. I know of
one going to C&S. And Rock Island put some of these trucks under
some of their wide vision cabooses. How many? Since these are
both
post 1960 questions, please respond off-list at
b.leppert@...

Any help will be GREATLY appreciated.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Brian,

The Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck was used on all of the Monon Railroad's steel caboose fleet except transfer cabooses as follows:

C-350 renumbered 81515, blt.9-52 by Thrall Car Co. Riveted end cupola car.

C-360-368 renumbered 81501-81509, blt 12-52 by International Car Co., Kenton, OH. Rivited center cupola car.

81525-81531 blt 11-56 at the Monon's Lafayette, IN Shops. Proprietary design welded car, center cupola with extended vision.

Renumbering from the C-series was accomplished during 1956.

Hope this helps. Your new truck will be a welcome addition.

Mont Switzer



Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...> wrote:
Tooling for the "Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck" is finished.
This will be the next offering from Tahoe Model Works.

I need help coming up with a list of cabooses equipped with these
trucks. What I have found is listed below. Does anybody know of
others? An image of the prototype truck can be seen at:
http://gelwood.railfan.net/co/co-c804ads.jpg

ATSF #1500-2000 blt. 1924-1931
CB&Q 13500-13524 1930
CRI&P 17850-17899 1930
ERIE 04926-04975 1929, 1930
MILW 01600-01615 1929
MKT 796-820 1930
MKT 1-4 1959
MP 815-909 1929, 1930
MP 1100-1119 1930
NKP 1194-1208 1924
PM A800-A824

I also know of Georgia RR #2861 and Western Ry. of Alabama #161, both
almost identical cabooses. Anybody know the complete number series?
How about their sister road, Atlanta & West Point?

Santa Fe sold off some cabooses, some with these trucks. I know of
one going to C&S. And Rock Island put some of these trucks under
some of their wide vision cabooses. How many? Since these are both
post 1960 questions, please respond off-list at
b.leppert@...

Any help will be GREATLY appreciated.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV






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Give spam the boot. Take control with tough spam protection
in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.


Jim Betz
 

Most, if not all, International all-steel cabooses had Bettendorf
swing-motion trucks. This includes the standard cupola, extended
vision, and wide-vision models such as those used on the GN, NP, etc.
Once the swing-motion truck came out (year?) it was a clear winner
and a lot of cabooses ordered after that date were ordered with
those trucks. I do not have info that indicates that a lot of
cabooses were converted to more modern trucks - in fact my research
indicates that a way car often/usually went thru its entire service
life with the same trucks under it. Makes sense if you think about
it - the dead weight load on the trucks is both constant and in
general lighter than the variety of loads seen by a freight car.
I've never actually researched it but it wouldn't surprise me to
find out that a caboose was, in general, lighter than even most of
the empty freight cars in the train.
A large percentage of the Athearn 'modern' caboose models would be
candidates for your new truck (depending upon RR) - although most/all
of those already come with the Athearn swing-motion Bettendorf truck
so you would have to 'differentiate' your truck from theirs.

Please provide info about stuff like wheelsets (what you are
providing with them), what other wheelsets would be easy drop ins
(such as Proto 88 wheelsets), what they are made of (cast brass,
delrin, other) and a link to pics of the actual model as soon as
they are available.
- Jim in San Jose

*****************************************************************
***** Too Many Trains, Not Enough Brains!!!
*****************************************************************


Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 19, 2007, at 7:58 AM, Jim Betz wrote:

Most, if not all, International all-steel cabooses had Bettendorf
swing-motion trucks. This includes the standard cupola, extended
vision, and wide-vision models such as those used on the GN, NP, etc.
Once the swing-motion truck came out (year?) it was a clear winner
and a lot of cabooses ordered after that date were ordered with
those trucks.....
A large percentage of the Athearn 'modern' caboose models would be
candidates for your new truck (depending upon RR) - although most/all
of those already come with the Athearn swing-motion Bettendorf truck
so you would have to 'differentiate' your truck from theirs.
Careful, Jim. The truck Dennis has tooled is the caboose truck
introduced by Bettendorf in the 1920s. After Bettendorf got out of the
truck business ca. 1942 the swing motion patents were taken over by the
Standard Car Truck Co., which produced what they called the
Barber-Bettendorf caboose truck. That truck, which was applied to many
cabooses in the 1940s and '50s, had a considerably different side frame
configuration than the original Bettendorf design.

Richard Hendrickson


Tim O'Connor
 

This truck looks a lot like the old Cape Line model. Unfortunately
for me I don't think it works for any SP caboose.

Tim O'Connor

At 5/18/2007 12:16 PM Friday, you wrote:
Tooling for the "Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck" is finished.
This will be the next offering from Tahoe Model Works.

I need help coming up with a list of cabooses equipped with these
trucks. What I have found is listed below. Does anybody know of
others? An image of the prototype truck can be seen at:
http://gelwood.railfan.net/co/co-c804ads.jpg


Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 19, 2007, at 10:57 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


This truck looks a lot like the old Cape Line model. Unfortunately
for me I don't think it works for any SP caboose.
Right on both counts, Tim.

Richard Hendrickson


Tim O'Connor
 

Chet, I have to disagree about the Ann Arbor cabooses. They
rode on a later version (although similar) than the one shown
in Brian's link to the C&O caboose. I think Richard's caution
applies in this case.

Tim O'Connor

Brian,

The Wabash and Ann Arbor's steel cabooses rode on them.

WAB 2700-2859 160 cars built between 1939 and 1955.
AA 2830-2846 17 cars built in 1952.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:
snip>
Careful, Jim. The truck Dennis has tooled is the caboose truck
introduced by Bettendorf in the 1920s. After Bettendorf got out of
the
truck business ca. 1942 the swing motion patents were taken over by
the
Standard Car Truck Co., which produced what they called the
Barber-Bettendorf caboose truck. That truck, which was applied to
many
cabooses in the 1940s and '50s, had a considerably different side
frame
configuration than the original Bettendorf design.

Richard and Tim and List

After looking at photos of Wabash and Ann Arbor steel cabooses built
in various years, they all appear to have the same side frames, which
is different than the one shown on the C&O cab. The first two groups
of Wabash cabs totaled 50 cars built in 1939 and 1941 by the company
shop at Decatur. The other 110 cars were built in various years
between 1944 and 1955. To my untrained eyes they all appear to have
the same trucks. It appears that the Ann Arbor's 17 cars built by
Decatur in 1952 do also. I also compared them with several photos of
the IC 9600-9649 series cars built in 1957-58, and the trucks are
very close, if not the same, as those on the Wabash and Annie cars.
The IC diagram book list them as Barber Swing Motion.

Did the Bettendorf Company perhaps change the side frame design of
the swing motion trucks sometime prior to the sale of the patents to
the Standard Car Truck Co.? The reason I ask is that the side frames
used on the 1939 and 1941 built cars is the same as those used on the
later cars. Perhaps Standard just continued on with these side
frames marketed as Barber-Bettendorf trucks. At any rate, if Tahoe's
swing motion truck is an early design, it could eliminate their use
on many cabooses built from the late 1930's on.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Chet,

You are correct about Bettendorf changing the side frame design for their "Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Car Trucks". Drawings for the newer version first appeared in the 1931 CBC and continued up to and including the 1970 edition. The first production of trucks with this style, that I know of, was for Magor-built steel cabooses for Missouri Pacific in 1937 (#910-934).

Using not-so-elegant terms, if the earlier sideframe could be described as looking "wide butt", then this sideframe looks "pinched butt". Features of the "pinched" truck, besides the obvious transom instead of visable bolster and spring plank, include a 5'-6" wheelbase, 30 ton journals (4 1/4 X 8") and no beading on the side frame face. The years these trucks were produced seem to be 1937 to at least 1951.

At some point in time, at least as early as 1951, a 40 ton version was introduced. The distinguishing feature of this truck is the prominent beading on the side frame. Also, the wheelbase is longer--5'-8" instead of 5'-6"--and the journals are bigger, 5"X9". Apparently, the wheelbase was stretched to offer a smoother ride, and the journal size was increased, not because cabooses got heavier, but rather an ample supply of 5"X9" journal bearings versus the hard to come by smaller 30 ton bearings.

Eastern Car Works offers the 40 ton caboose truck in HO.
The 30 ton version will be my next tooling project.

As for proper names for these trucks, I'd like to quote the Standard Car Truck Company ad in the 1943 CBC:

"In 1942 the Standard Car Truck Company acquired all pattern equipment together with manufacturing and sales rights for the Bettendorf Caboose Car Truck, which will hereafter be known as the Barber-Bettendorf Caboose Car Truck and sold exclusively by Standard Car Truck Company."

Barber was the trade name owned by SCTCo.

I find it ironic that Bettendorf Co.'s illustration for the wide-butt "Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Car Truck", first appearing in their ad in the 1928 CBC, was also used in SCTCo.'s advertising all the up to the 1970 CBC, almost 40 years after becoming obsolete.

Brian (NOT Dennis) Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@...> wrote:
...30 ton journals (4 1/4 X 8")
and no beading on the side frame face. The years these trucks were
produced
seem to be 1937 to at least 1951.

At some point in time, at least as early as 1951, a 40 ton version was
introduced. The distinguishing feature of this truck is the prominent
beading on the side frame. Also, the wheelbase is longer--5'-8"
instead of
5'-6"--and the journals are bigger, 5"X9". Apparently, the
wheelbase was
stretched to offer a smoother ride, and the journal size was
increased, not
because cabooses got heavier, but rather an ample supply of 5"X9"
journal
bearings versus the hard to come by smaller 30 ton bearings.
Just a point of correction, 4 1/4 X 8 was the size of the bearings on
the ARA/AAR "B" axle, which had a capacity of 22,000 lbs. and was
normally the axle for "40 ton" cars. The bearings for 30 ton cars were
3 3/4 X 7, which were pretty common on arch bar caboose trucks.

The 5 X 9 bearings were on AAR "C" axles, designed with a capacity of
31,000 lbs, and were normally associated with 50 or 55 ton cars. Note
that in each case the total of the capacity of four axles is well in
excess of the nominal capacity of the car; that's because the bearings
also had to support the tare weight of the car.

And yes, I agree that the later trucks went to 5 X 9 bearings simply
to cut down on parts inventory at RIP tracks, not only journal
brasses, but also wheel and axle sets. Using 5 X 9 bearings on the
cabooses allowed them to draw from the supply of common freightcar parts.

Dennis (the real Dennis) Storzek


Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

Just a point of correction, 4 1/4 X 8 was the size of the bearings on
the ARA/AAR "B" axle, which had a capacity of 22,000 lbs. and was
normally the axle for "40 ton" cars. The bearings for 30 ton cars were
3 3/4 X 7, which were pretty common on arch bar caboose trucks.

The 5 X 9 bearings were on AAR "C" axles, designed with a capacity of
31,000 lbs, and were normally associated with 50 or 55 ton cars. Note
that in each case the total of the capacity of four axles is well in
excess of the nominal capacity of the car; that's because the bearings
also had to support the tare weight of the car...
Did I just write all this? Shows I need that second (or third, fourth
or fifth) cup of coffee before I post on Monday morning.

The "A" axle with 3 3/4 X 7 journals has a capacity of 15,000 lbs. and
so four of them have combined capacity of 60,000 lbs. or thirty tons
TOTAL, not a 30 ton capacity car. With cabooses weighing in around
17-22 tons and not expected to carry any additional load, these were
more than adequate, and were common on archbar caboose trucks.

But, Brian is correct that the "B" axle with 4 1/4 X 8 bearings is
only adequate for 30 ton CAPACITY cars., and the "C" axle with 5 X 9
bearings is the axle for 40 ton capacity cars.

Dennis (where did I leave my head?) Storzek


golden1014
 

Brian,

SAL 5600-series cabooses had them. These were the all-steel
International cabooses, delivered 1949. Most lasted into the SCL era.

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL




--- In STMFC@..., "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@...> wrote:

Tooling for the "Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck" is
finished.
This will be the next offering from Tahoe Model Works.

I need help coming up with a list of cabooses equipped with these
trucks. What I have found is listed below. Does anybody know of
others? An image of the prototype truck can be seen at:
http://gelwood.railfan.net/co/co-c804ads.jpg

ATSF #1500-2000 blt. 1924-1931
CB&Q 13500-13524 1930
CRI&P 17850-17899 1930
ERIE 04926-04975 1929, 1930
MILW 01600-01615 1929
MKT 796-820 1930
MKT 1-4 1959
MP 815-909 1929, 1930
MP 1100-1119 1930
NKP 1194-1208 1924
PM A800-A824

I also know of Georgia RR #2861 and Western Ry. of Alabama #161,
both
almost identical cabooses. Anybody know the complete number
series?
How about their sister road, Atlanta & West Point?

Santa Fe sold off some cabooses, some with these trucks. I know
of
one going to C&S. And Rock Island put some of these trucks under
some of their wide vision cabooses. How many? Since these are
both
post 1960 questions, please respond off-list at
b.leppert@...

Any help will be GREATLY appreciated.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Mark Mathu
 

Jim Betz wrote:

Most, if not all, International all-steel cabooses had Bettendorf
swing-motion trucks. This includes the standard cupola, extended
vision, and wide-vision models such as those used on the GN, NP,
etc.
Once the swing-motion truck came out (year?) it was a clear winner
and a lot of cabooses ordered after that date were ordered with
those trucks.

Hi, maybe you can help me (and potentially help the caboose truck list
in the process, too)...

As I understand it, GBW's modest fleet of three ICC cabooses
(#615-617, built 1965-66) had swing motion trucks -- but specifically
Dahlman swing motion trucks, not Bettendorf. I'm no expert on truck
types... can someone confirm that the trucks are Dahlman? If not,
what type are they?

Here is an image of a truck under GBW #615 in 1980:
http://www.greenbayroute.com/gbw615truck.jpg
(that's the generator attached to the right axle)

__________
Mark Mathu
Whitefish Bay, Wis.
The Green Bay Route: http://www.greenbayroute.com/


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hello Mark,

I don't claim to be a truck expert either, but the truck in your photo at
least resembles the Barber-Bettendorf swing motion caboose truck. In HO,
Athearn and Atlas both have roller-bearing versions of the Barber-Bettendorf
truck, and Atlas also makes a solid-bearing version. I'm using the Atlas
solid-bearing trucks (no. 191000) under Athearn cabooses modified to
represent the railroad-built (in 1942) AT&SF 2001-series way cars. It's a
nice truck, especially with the addition of Reboxx narrow-tread wheelsets
and Kadee no. 441 brake beams. These are the trucks under the caboose in the
attached photo; unfortunately, I don't have a closeup view of the truck.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

I should have realized I couldn't attach a photo to a posting. I've added an
album to the "Photos" section of the group's Yahoo page. Look for "ATSF way
car (caboose)" if you're interested, but allow some time for the photos to
be vetted. -- Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

The truck in the image http://www.greenbayroute.com/gbw615truck.jpg is the 40 ton version of the Barber-Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Car Truck. This differs from the 30 ton version by the beading on the side frame face, tighter radius on the far corners of the side frame windows and a 2 inch longer wheelbase. I think the 40 ton truck was first introduced in the early 1950s. ECW offers this truck.

For many years our hobby has been calling ANY caboose truck with side frames having integrally cast journal boxes and leaf springs as "Bettendorf" or "Barber-Bettendorf". This is incorrect.

Bettendorf and Barber-Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Trucks are easily indentified by the visable end of the transom casting. This is the six sided object that the leaf spring sticks out of. The transom solidly connects the two side frames. The spring plank hangs below the transom by four links. The leaf (elliptical) springs sit on the spring plank and support the truck bolster that floats within the transom casting. This was developed and patended by the Bettendorf Co. back in the teens and was originally offered with T-section side frames (NYC liked this caboose truck). By 1924 the U-section side frame became available. This "wide bottom" side frame was manufactured until circa 1931. By 1935 Bettendorf changed the contour of the side frame to a "pinched bottom" look This 30 ton truck remained in production until at least 1958, that I know of.

In 1942 the Bettendorf Co. sold the manufacturing and sales rights for this design to the Standard Car Truck Company. This is when they added their trade name "Barber" to the truck's name.

An HO version of the "wide bottom", circa 1924-1931, Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck has recently become available from Tahoe Model Works. I'm currently working on the tooling for the 30 ton, "pinched bottom" Barber-Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV