Prototype verification, or not


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Hi all

OK, so I bought some new cars, hoping for the best, but liking the cars anyway . . .

IM 1937 AAR 40' box, lettered for NP 29835
http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/45703.htm
This comes, of course, with a representation of a wood roof walk, which is the first question.
Should it be wood or, if not, which variety of steel walk should it have? And of course, is this
car actually something the NP had?

Tichy Single Sheathed Boxcar (sic)
http://www.imrcmodels.com/distrib/tichy/html/T452609.htm
Nicely assembled, and the paint isn't QUITE as dark as in this image. It seems to me that this is
one of the actual prototypes of these kits (and yes, I know we've discussed this on this list, but a
bit if time with the search engine didn't find it for me, sorry). What shortcomings/needed fixes
would apply to this car?

Thanks very much.

SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!


Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

SGL wrote:
OK, so I bought some new cars, hoping for the best, but liking the cars
anyway . . .

IM 1937 AAR 40' box, lettered for NP 29835
http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/45703.htm
This comes, of course, with a representation of a wood roof walk, which is
the first question.
Should it be wood or, if not, which variety of steel walk should it have?
And of course, is this
car actually something the NP had?
NP 29500-29999, blt Feb 1946, Gypsum or Morton running board, universal
brakewheel, 6' doors, earlier style wide riveted youngstown doors, (I
believe Dan Hall sells these doors) 8 rung ladders, 4/4 ends, rectangular
roof. Nice photo in the October 1989 RMJ article by Ed Hawkins. He may be
able to breakdown which numbers had Gypsum and Morton running boards. The
main issue is that you say IM 1937 AAR which would be 10' IH height cars,
this series of NP cars were 10'-6" cars.

Strangely IM has 26000, and 27000 series numbers on their 10'-6" modified
AAR boxcar, I'm confused?
http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/45801.htm

Branchline also offers this car.
http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/40boxcars/40%27aar6/bra_1425.jpg

Tichy Single Sheathed Boxcar (sic)
http://www.imrcmodels.com/distrib/tichy/html/T452609.htm
Nicely assembled, and the paint isn't QUITE as dark as in this image. It
seems to me that this is
one of the actual prototypes of these kits (and yes, I know we've
discussed this on this list, but a
bit if time with the search engine didn't find it for me, sorry). What
shortcomings/needed fixes
would apply to this car?
SP B-50-12, see messages 7270, and 7269 for further information. Message
7269 has further messages below. As an aside, I thought you were a later
50's modeler, the kit has K brakes and were out of service by 1953.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Tim O'Connor
 

IM 1937 AAR 40' box, lettered for NP 29835
http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/45703.htm
Schuyler

NP 29500-29999 were built in 1946. They had APEX steel running
boards, 4/4 ends, 8-rung ladders, ASF A-3 ride control trucks,
and AJAX hand brake. And the doors had a 5-7-6 pattern of the
corrugations (counting the raised corrugation) which does not
appear to match the one on the model.

In other words, it looks like IRC stuck it to you. BFS.

Tichy Single Sheathed Boxcar (sic)
http://www.imrcmodels.com/distrib/tichy/html/T452609.htm
In the late 1940's the SP rebuilt its B-50-12 class into steel
sheathed B-50-12A's. So an original B-50-12 with KC brakes may
not be appropriate for you, depending on your era. Otherwise the
model is ok, except for the trucks, which should be Andrews w/
short journal retainer bars (Accurail or Red Caboose I think).
And SP trucks were painted body color, although this late in
its life you probably couldn't tell.

Tim O'Connor


Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian J Carlson
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype verification, or not

SGL wrote:
OK, so I bought some new cars, hoping for the best, but
liking the cars
anyway . . .
And the Brian wrote a good deal, ending with:

As an aside, I thought you
were a later
50's modeler, the kit has K brakes and were out of service by 1953.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
Thanks, Brian, for a very informative post, I appreciate that a lot.

There's a split here. MY own interest is circa 1950; the model RR club is ca. 1955

SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!


Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Tim:
Where did you get your information? I was going by information in Ed Hawkins
article in RMJ. The handbrake in the photo of 29756 (October 1989 RMJ, or
Page 70 of Freight Car Models Vol II) is definitely a Universal Type 5700 XL
Hand brake with M1704 malleable iron hand wheel (Ref RPC 10 page 46.).
Actually, I can't be certain about the hand brake, but I am sure about the
wheel. The running board does not look like Apex either, and the trucks do
not appear to have the bulbous lower spring support typical of ASF A-3 ride
control truck, they look more like Barber S-2's (RPC 4) but I wasn't sure so
I didn't mention them in my first email

NP 29500-29999 were built in 1946. They had APEX steel running
boards, 4/4 ends, 8-rung ladders, ASF A-3 ride control trucks,
and AJAX hand brake. And the doors had a 5-7-6 pattern of the
corrugations (counting the raised corrugation) which does not
appear to match the one on the model.

In other words, it looks like IRC stuck it to you. BFS.
Brian Carlson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Brian J Carlson (replying to Schuyler) wrote:
SP B-50-12, see messages 7270, and 7269 for further information. Message 7269 has further messages below. As an aside, I thought you were a later 50's modeler, the kit has K brakes and were out of service by 1953.
Starting in the fall of 1949, SP rebuilt the best 675 or so of the surviving cars of Class B-50-12 into an entirely new appearance, new steel sides and roofs, etc. A moderate number, around 50 cars, then went into MW service with SPMW numbers. A very few escaped either fate and remained in revenue service with original sides (though with AB brakes)--the last went by 1953--but these were rare and certainly not representative of matters post-1950.
Anyone modeling after January, 1950 should, IMO, not have original USRA cars lettered for SP in operation, even on an SP layout. They were then pretty darn rare in original configuration.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Matt Herson
 

Schuyler and Group,

For a NP 1937 AAR box car the number series should be 15000-17999. Some cars were renumbered but that happened after the cut off date for this list. The paint scheme is a representation of an as built car (1940-1) and I have seen a photo taken in the early 1950s of a car still in this scheme. However the Monad on the right side of the car should be centered on the middle side panel between the door and car end. On the model the Monad is too close to the door. The cars had wood running boards until scrapping or removal. Can't tell from the photo but the car should have 8 rung ladders.

Hope this helps.

Matt Herson


Tim O'Connor
 

Tim:
Where did you get your information?
Brian,

Beats me! :-) No, seriously, from Ed Hawkins RMJ 10/1999 roster
but it's possible I took bad notes. Yes, I should have checked
that 10/89 photo since I knew about that too.

Looking at it now, my notes may pertain mostly to 25000-25499.

In any case if Schuyler is correct and the model is really IRC's
1937 AAR 10'0"IH body, then it's a moot point.

Tim

I was going by information in Ed Hawkins
article in RMJ. The handbrake in the photo of 29756 (October 1989 RMJ, or
Page 70 of Freight Car Models Vol II) is definitely a Universal Type 5700 XL
Hand brake with M1704 malleable iron hand wheel (Ref RPC 10 page 46.).
Actually, I can't be certain about the hand brake, but I am sure about the
wheel. The running board does not look like Apex either, and the trucks do
not appear to have the bulbous lower spring support typical of ASF A-3 ride
control truck, they look more like Barber S-2's (RPC 4) but I wasn't sure so
I didn't mention them in my first email


oliver
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

Strangely IM has 26000, and 27000 series numbers on their 10'-6"
modified AAR boxcar, I'm confused?
http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/45801.htm
Um, its IM! You know...it doesn't have to be prototypical!
cheers
Stefan


oliver
 

There was a nice article in MM on modelling/upgrading the IMWX 10'
1937 AAR cars by Dennis Hitt a while back. Also some good pics on
Fallen Flags of 15788 and 17497 in the as delivered scheme showing
Monad placement (as per Matt's post).
cheers
Stefan

If one actually wants to --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Herson"
<mherson@...> wrote:

Schuyler and Group,

For a NP 1937 AAR box car the number series should be 15000-17999.
Some cars were renumbered but that happened after the cut off date for
this list. The paint scheme is a representation of an as built car
(1940-1) and I have seen a photo taken in the early 1950s of a car
still in this scheme. However the Monad on the right side of the car
should be centered on the middle side panel between the door and car
end. On the model the Monad is too close to the door. The cars had
wood running boards until scrapping or removal. Can't tell from the
photo but the car should have 8 rung ladders.

Hope this helps.

Matt Herson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Matt,

Based on photographs of each series I agree. Wood running
boards up to the 17999. Monad is centered. Another change
starting with the 18000 series is now has "Main Street of
the Northwest" under the Monad.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Herson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 27 May, 2007 19:39
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype verification, or not


Schuyler and Group,

For a NP 1937 AAR box car the number series should be
15000-17999. Some cars were renumbered but that happened after
the cut off date for this list. The paint scheme is a
representation of an as built car (1940-1) and I have seen a photo
taken in the early 1950s of a car still in this scheme. However
the Monad on the right side of the car should be centered on the
middle side panel between the door and car end. On the model the
Monad is too close to the door. The cars had wood running boards
until scrapping or removal. Can't tell from the photo but the car
should have 8 rung ladders.

Hope this helps.

Matt Herson


toddsyr <toddsyr@...>
 

OK, I finally have to ask. What's a monad? Thanks in advance for educating me!

Todd K. Stearns

----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Strodtz
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype verification, or not


Matt,

Based on photographs of each series I agree. Wood running
boards up to the 17999. Monad is centered. Another change
starting with the 18000 series is now has "Main Street of
the Northwest" under the Monad.

Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Herson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 27 May, 2007 19:39
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype verification, or not

Schuyler and Group,

For a NP 1937 AAR box car the number series should be
15000-17999. Some cars were renumbered but that happened after
the cut off date for this list. The paint scheme is a
representation of an as built car (1940-1) and I have seen a photo
taken in the early 1950s of a car still in this scheme. However
the Monad on the right side of the car should be centered on the
middle side panel between the door and car end. On the model the
Monad is too close to the door. The cars had wood running boards
until scrapping or removal. Can't tell from the photo but the car
should have 8 rung ladders.

Hope this helps.

Matt Herson







__________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Todd K. Stearns wrote:
OK, I finally have to ask. What's a monad? Thanks in advance for educating me!
It's that squiggly yin-and-yang thing, like two commas, in the NP emblem <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

OK, I finally have to ask. What's a monad? Thanks in advance for educating me!
Todd K. Stearns


Matt Herson
 

Russ,

My research up till now indicates the "Main Street of the Northwest" was added around 1947. Would you be able to point me to photos showing the "Main Street of the Northwest" applied before 1947?

Thanks,

Matt Herson

----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Strodtz
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype verification, or not


Matt,

Based on photographs of each series I agree. Wood running
boards up to the 17999. Monad is centered. Another change
starting with the 18000 series is now has "Main Street of
the Northwest" under the Monad.

Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Herson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 27 May, 2007 19:39
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype verification, or not

Schuyler and Group,

For a NP 1937 AAR box car the number series should be
15000-17999. Some cars were renumbered but that happened after
the cut off date for this list. The paint scheme is a
representation of an as built car (1940-1) and I have seen a photo
taken in the early 1950s of a car still in this scheme. However
the Monad on the right side of the car should be centered on the
middle side panel between the door and car end. On the model the
Monad is too close to the door. The cars had wood running boards
until scrapping or removal. Can't tell from the photo but the car
should have 8 rung ladders.

Hope this helps.

Matt Herson


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Todd K. Stearns wrote:
OK, I finally have to ask. What's a monad? Thanks in advance for
educating me!
Tony Thompson Editor said:
It's that squiggly yin-and-yang thing, like two commas, in the NP
emblem <g>.
And "Monad" is a SO much nicer term that "squiggly yin-and-yang thing" . . .

SGL


toddsyr <toddsyr@...>
 

Gotcha, thanks guys. Anyone in the West end of Syracuse would have replied it's just like the Marble Farms emblem! Of course I didn't know that until now.

Todd K. Stearns

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype verification, or not


Todd K. Stearns wrote:
> OK, I finally have to ask. What's a monad? Thanks in advance for
> educating me!

It's that squiggly yin-and-yang thing, like two commas, in the NP
emblem <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history





__________ NOD32 2292 (20070525) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com


Tim O'Connor
 

Great photos, thanks Russ. The brakewheel is not only Universal,
but is clearly marked XL as well. Universal changed styles over
the years so one needs to know which one to use...

Tim O

At 5/28/2007 10:57 AM Monday, you wrote:
Matt,

Based on photographs of each series I agree. Wood running
boards up to the 17999. Monad is centered. Another change
starting with the 18000 series is now has "Main Street of
the Northwest" under the Monad.

Russ


Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 28, 2007, at 12:20 PM, Matt Herson wrote:

My research up till now indicates the "Main Street of the Northwest"
was added around 1947. Would you be able to point me to photos showing
the "Main Street of the Northwest" applied before 1947?
Matt, the first use of the "main Street" slogans was 9-47.
Photographic evidence shows that the lowest numbered 91000-91249 series
refrigerator cars were delivered by Pacific Car & Foundry without the
"Main Street" slogans but that the slogans were added on higher
numbered cars in the series that were delivered towards the end of
September in that year.

Richard Hendrickson


Matt Herson
 

Richard,

Thank you very much for pin pointing the date of the first use of "Main Street of the Northwest" slogan.

Actually I misread the comment Russ made and the comment was not inconsistent with the 1947 date. Sorry for the confusion.

Matt Herson

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype verification, or not


On May 28, 2007, at 12:20 PM, Matt Herson wrote:

> My research up till now indicates the "Main Street of the Northwest"
> was added around 1947. Would you be able to point me to photos showing
> the "Main Street of the Northwest" applied before 1947?

Matt, the first use of the "main Street" slogans was 9-47.
Photographic evidence shows that the lowest numbered 91000-91249 series
refrigerator cars were delivered by Pacific Car & Foundry without the
"Main Street" slogans but that the slogans were added on higher
numbered cars in the series that were delivered towards the end of
September in that year.

Richard Hendrickson