Guys -

I need the help of a REAL Frisco historian here!

We are researching ACF Type 7 (MCB Class II) tank cars. Frisco
purchased 500 of these cars from ACF in two lots back in 1909. Each
lot consisted of 250 cars of 10,000 gallon capacity.

The first group were numbered #19075-#190324, and the second group
were numbered #190325-#190574. All were Frisco cars.

As of March of 1915, the first group contained 246 cars, and the
second contained 246 cars also. By September of 1919, the same
number series contained only 15 and 60 cars respectively! (69 of
these 75 cars were still on the roster in April of 1948).

Actual car numbers diminished as follows, for the first and second
number series respectively, as follows: 3/1915 - 246 and 246;
7/1916 - 238 and 236; 8/1917 - 137 and 141; and 1/1918 - 51 and 54.
By 9/1919, there were only 75 cars total left!

What happened to them? Wherever they went, they left the SL-SF in
substantial numbers between 7/1916 and 9/1919. Did they get
repossessed by the builder? Did they go to some on-line oil refinery?

I am NO expert on the breakup of the Frisco, but by examining ORER's,
they apparently did not go to the CRI&P, C&EI or GCL. I have all
four of Allhand's (he was the contractor who built the GCL and other
Frisco lines) books, but there were no clues in them as to what
happened to these cars.

I appreciate any help you can give on this matter. A manufacturer's
website will have some of this history, along with photos, soon!

A.T. Kott

Guys -

Check out Rich Yoder's website for a few nice photos of these Type 7
tank cars. In particular, the first photo of the Texaco tank car is
illustrative of the "ACF Type 7" tank car. The second photo
(courtesy Arnold Menke) of the unlettered tank car is illustrative of
the "ACF Type 4" tank car. Note the differences in the underframe at
the side sills and body bolsters. Also note the big honkin' cradles
common only to the Type 4 cars, and the wood end blocks on the end
platforms, complete with steel bracing. A picture is worth a
thousand words!

The web address is as follows:

www.Richyodermodels.com/rym_fc_tank.htm

Rich is only importing "O" scale models of the Type 7 cars; the Type
4 is just there for comparison.

We are still working on a roster, but Texaco had cars of 10K (single
dome), 8K (single, double and triple dome) and 6K (single and double
dome) gallons capacity.

A.T. Kott



--- In STMFC@..., "proto48er" <atkott@...> wrote:

Guys -

I need the help of a REAL Frisco historian here!

We are researching ACF Type 7 (MCB Class II) tank cars. Frisco
purchased 500 of these cars from ACF in two lots back in 1909.

Each

lot consisted of 250 cars of 10,000 gallon capacity.

The first group were numbered #19075-#190324, and the second group
were numbered #190325-#190574. All were Frisco cars.

As of March of 1915, the first group contained 246 cars, and the
second contained 246 cars also. By September of 1919, the same
number series contained only 15 and 60 cars respectively! (69 of
these 75 cars were still on the roster in April of 1948).

Actual car numbers diminished as follows, for the first and second
number series respectively, as follows: 3/1915 - 246 and 246;
7/1916 - 238 and 236; 8/1917 - 137 and 141; and 1/1918 - 51 and

54.

By 9/1919, there were only 75 cars total left!

What happened to them? Wherever they went, they left the SL-SF in
substantial numbers between 7/1916 and 9/1919. Did they get
repossessed by the builder? Did they go to some on-line oil

refinery?

I am NO expert on the breakup of the Frisco, but by examining

ORER's,

they apparently did not go to the CRI&P, C&EI or GCL. I have all
four of Allhand's (he was the contractor who built the GCL and

other

Frisco lines) books, but there were no clues in them as to what
happened to these cars.

I appreciate any help you can give on this matter. A

manufacturer's

website will have some of this history, along with photos, soon!

A.T. Kott

The complete web address is as follows:

http://www.richyodermodels.com/rym_fc_tank.htm

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., "proto48er" <atkott@...> wrote:

The complete web address is as follows:

http://www.richyodermodels.com/rym_fc_tank.htm

A.T. Kott

For future reference, there is an easy way to determine the rough
gallonage for these Type 7 tank cars, using even a poor quality
photo. Look at the ladder rungs.

12,000 gallon cars have 4 ladder rungs, with the outer edge of the
ladders overhanging the side sills about 4". 12K gal. cars are rare -
NdeM may have had the only ones (Tex-Mex had some from them).

10,000 gallon cars also have 4 ladder rungs, but the outer edge of
the ladders is even with the top of the side sill. (It is difficult
to distinguish these from 12K gallon cars, but the 10K gallon cars
were much more common).

8,000 gallon cars have only 3 ladder rungs.

6,000 gallon cars have only 2 ladder rungs, more or less equally
spaced.

4,500 gallon cars (very few) have only 2 ladder rungs, but the
spacing between the end platform and the first rung is equal to the
spacing between the first and second rungs; however, the second rung
is spaced much closer to the upper wood walkway.

A.T. Kott

A.T. Kott wrote:

For future reference, there is an easy way to determine the rough
gallonage for these Type 7 tank cars, using even a poor quality
photo. Look at the ladder rungs.

12,000 gallon cars have 4 ladder rungs, with the outer edge of the
ladders overhanging the side sills about 4". 12K gal. cars are rare -
NdeM may have had the only ones (Tex-Mex had some from them).

Riverside Portland Cement bought four in 1908; they were bought by PE in 1914 and lasted for years in company fuel service.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history