Molasses in Tank Cars in the 1950s


matt
 

Hi Guys,

Can anyone tell me which type of tank cars were used to transport
molasses to and from refineries in Louisana in the 1950s?

Were any specific road names used eg UTLX , GATX, Sid Richardson?

Thanks in advance for your help

MATT


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Matt Strickland wrote:
Can anyone tell me which type of tank cars were used to transport molasses to and from refineries in Louisana in the 1950s?
I'm sure it could be an ICC 103, though if molasses is an "unregulated commodity" it could be an AAR 203 also.

Were any specific road names used eg UTLX , GATX, Sid Richardson?
Richardson was an oil company AFAIK, so probably not that. In the 1950s UTLX was not yet much into leasing other than petroleum products, so much more likely GATX, maybe cars under lease to a company with its name on the car. And don't forget SHPX and NATX, also active at that time in finding lessees. Hopefully someone will know specifically about Louisiana.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

I think Sid Richardson produces carbon black.

Those famous SP tank cars with the big diamond S on the dome
were in liquid sugar/molasses service.

Tim

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "matthewjstrickland" <matthewjstrickland@...>
Hi Guys,

Can anyone tell me which type of tank cars were used to transport
molasses to and from refineries in Louisana in the 1950s?

Were any specific road names used eg UTLX , GATX, Sid Richardson?

Thanks in advance for your help

MATT


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Those famous SP tank cars with the big diamond S on the dome were in liquid sugar/molasses service.
I didn't know about the molasses part, Tim. Are you sure?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

No, I'm not sure. I just assumed so, since molasses is a precursor
in the sugar refining process. But if you don't know, then no one does
except perhaps the mysterious Bill Kelly :-)

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Those famous SP tank cars with the big diamond S on the dome were in
liquid sugar/molasses service.
I didn't know about the molasses part, Tim. Are you sure?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tim and Tony:

SP "diamond-s" tanks were frequently seen at the C&H sugar refinery at Crockett, California. It is my understanding that they were restricted to liquid sugar service (from memory here, based on what I remember from Richard Hendrickson's RMJ article on kitbashing one of these cars). Molasses I know nothing about. I wonder if they were used by other SP-served sugar refiners, say Spreckles or Holly? I used to work across the street from Holly Sugar in Santa Ana, but don't remember seeing any of these cars there.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Those famous SP tank cars with the big diamond S on the dome were in liquid sugar/molasses service.
I didn't know about the molasses part, Tim. Are you sure?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 6, 2007, at 10:26 AM, timboconnor@... wrote:

I think Sid Richardson produces carbon black.
True in the '50s, and Sid Richardson also operated a sizable fleet of
ICC-105 LPG cars leased (IIRC) from General American (I have photos
somewhere but don't have time to look for them right now). No tank
cars suitable for molasses service, however.

Those famous SP tank cars with the big diamond S on the dome
were in liquid sugar/molasses service.
But not, AFAIK, in Texas; Tony may have more information on this, but
it's my understanding that they were essentially in captive service to
the big C&H sugar refinery in Crockett, CA.

Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Garth G. Groff wrote:
SP "diamond-s" tanks were frequently seen at the C&H sugar refinery at Crockett, California. It is my understanding that they were restricted to liquid sugar service . . .
True, and they were so stenciled for a number of years.

Molasses I know nothing about. I wonder if they were used by other SP-served sugar refiners, say Spreckles or Holly?
Yes. I have photos at Spreckels (note spelling), and I understand they were used by Imperial Sugar at Sugar Land, Texas also, and by an ASRX facility at Arlington (does anyone know about the latter?).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Garth G. Groff wrote:
SP "diamond-s" tanks were frequently seen at the C&H sugar refinery at Crockett, California. It is my understanding that they were restricted to liquid sugar service . . .
I replied:
True, and they were so stenciled for a number of years.
Let me clarify. This should not be taken to mean that ALL of the "diamond-S" cars were restricted, only that those stenciled with a restriction notice (such as "for liquid sugar loading only") were restricted. The diamond-S emblem on the dome by itself only meant that the car COULD be used for liquid sugar, and most assuredly did NOT mean that the car was necessarily IN sugar service.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Tony,

Ah, a fine point you have made. The CB&Q had hundreds of
hoppers with crude stenciling "Beet Service Only". Does
anyone think that if they were short on coal hoppers that
they would not be used for coal?

The same would be true of drop bottom gons.

At times I thought the only reason burlap bags were made is
to plug holes in the sides of composite built cars.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, 06 June, 2007 14:45
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Molasses in Tank Cars in the 1950s


> Garth G. Groff wrote:
>> SP "diamond-s" tanks were frequently seen at the C&H sugar
refinery
>> at Crockett, California. It is my understanding that they
were
>> restricted to liquid sugar service . . .

I replied:
> True, and they were so stenciled for a number of
years.

Let me clarify. This should not be taken to mean that ALL
of the
"diamond-S" cars were restricted, only that those stenciled with
a
restriction notice (such as "for liquid sugar loading only")
were
restricted. The diamond-S emblem on the dome by itself only
meant that
the car COULD be used for liquid sugar, and most assuredly did
NOT mean
that the car was necessarily IN sugar service.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Russ Strodtz wrote:
Ah, a fine point you have made. The CB&Q had hundreds of hoppers with crude stenciling "Beet Service Only". Does anyone think that if they were short on coal hoppers that they would not be used for coal?
Quite right, and well put. But the point here is a bit more subtle. The SP put the large white diamond on the dome, with a letter "S" inside it, whenever cars had been modified to be CAPABLE of use in liquid sugar service. They ALSO stenciled under the car number if the car was for "liquid sugar loading only," and as you say, the latter restriction might not always be followed. My point was that the diamond-S emblem by itself was NOT a restriction in any case.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


proto48er
 

Tony -

We saw a lot of the SP diamond "S" tank cars down in San Antonio -
Houston area. However, I never did realize that they were associated
with sugar production at Sugar Land. They may have been in water
service in that configuration here too.

MoP subsidiary Sugar Land RR rostered some raised running board tank
cars {SLD #100-#154} (not ACF Type 7's, however) with low domes and
very small safety vent valves that were in sugar service there. A
couple of them later became auxiliary water cars for steam locos.

I know nothing about a facility at Arlington! Did not realize that
Arlington, Tx was even near a T&NO line.

A.T. Kott


--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

.... Yes. I have photos at Spreckels (note spelling), and I
understand they were used by Imperial Sugar at Sugar Land, Texas
also,
and by an ASRX facility at Arlington (does anyone know about the
latter?).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

A.T. Kott wrote:
We saw a lot of the SP diamond "S" tank cars down in San Antonio - Houston area. However, I never did realize that they were associated with sugar production at Sugar Land. They may have been in water service in that configuration here too.
I was TOLD that they worked at Sugar Land, don't have any photos showing that. I have seen altogether three photos of SP "restricted stencil" liquid sugar cars and ASRX cars at Arlington. Maybe it was just a yard, don't know what would be the reason for them there. Can anyone help?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Lee Gautreaux
 

Tony,

I plan on modeling a cane sugar mill on my 1960's based Louisiana
layout one day, so I've been digging to find any evidence of SP or
T&NO lettered tank cars being used at any of those mills/refineries
for liquid sugar or molasses service. I interviewed an SP/T&NO
freight agent who started in the 1940's who has a good memory about
many of the details of the Southdown Sugar refinery on the Houma
branch. He says that he cannot recall ever having a railroad
lettered tank car at the refinery, only lease fleet cars. I have
seen numerous other older photos from various south Louisiana mills
and have never seen any SP tank cars. I have seen numerous older,
railroad owned gons and box cars, however.

Lee A. Gautreaux - The Bayou Foamer
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/

PS - The bristles from a stiff broom make great cane loads.
http://tinyurl.com/22ha2h

Hopefully someone will know
specifically about Louisiana.

Tony Thompson


Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Matt, here is a link to a photo of a 1960 molasses car at the Illinois
Railroad Museum www.irm.org/railwire/rw185/rw185a6.html

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

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Richard Townsend
 

Wayne Wesolowski had an article on scratchbuilding a truss-sided "sugar tank car" in the March 1982 RMC.  It definitely would have been an industry-owned car rather than one owned by a railroad.  The truss sides make it a very eye-catching car.  Don't know if it was for molasses or liquid sugar as I am at work and don't have the article here.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon



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bill_d_goat
 

--- In STMFC@..., "matthewjstrickland"
<matthewjstrickland@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

Can anyone tell me which type of tank cars were used to transport
molasses to and from refineries in Louisana in the 1950s?

Were any specific road names used eg UTLX , GATX, Sid Richardson?

Thanks in advance for your help

MATT
Dear Matt
I have two tankcars decaled for the "Williams Molasses Co". of New
Orleans. My name is Williams and I live in the N.O. area so I had to
get these decals when I saw them in the Champ catalog years ago. The
one I have in front of me is lettered HTCX 630. This is a good number
for the Harbor Tank Line Company of Chicago listed in my 1943 ORER.
(by the '50s, I don't know)I am "assuming" that Champ did their
research properly!
A mutual friend of mine and Andy Sperandeo has a model tankcar on his
layout lettered with decals sent to him by Andy for another New
Orleans molasses company. I think that the name was Richardson but
couldn't swear to it. Andy, do you remember? I'll forward your
message to my friend and ask him to check his car and contact you.
Bill Williams


al_brown03
 

Kaminski's tank car book, p147, shows a builder's photo of ILX 616, a
6000-gallon, ICC 103-W tank built in 1953. The car was uninsulated
but had heater coils, is said to belong to the Thomas E. Snyder Sons
Company, and advertises its lading as "SWEET PURE MOLASSES". The ILX
reporting mark belonged, per the 1/53 ORER, to the Inland Molasses
Company, with home points of Chicago, Ill.; East Chicago, Ind.; East
St. Louis, Ill.; Goodhope, La.; Hubbard, O.; Kansas City, Mo.;
Longview, Tex.; and Sharon, Pa. Inland Molasses had both 6000 and
8000 gallon cars, all ICC 103-W.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., "bill_d_goat" <billdgoat@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "matthewjstrickland"
<matthewjstrickland@> wrote:

Hi Guys,

Can anyone tell me which type of tank cars were used to transport
molasses to and from refineries in Louisana in the 1950s?

Were any specific road names used eg UTLX , GATX, Sid Richardson?

Thanks in advance for your help

MATT
Dear Matt
I have two tankcars decaled for the "Williams Molasses Co". of New
Orleans. My name is Williams and I live in the N.O. area so I had
to
get these decals when I saw them in the Champ catalog years ago.
The
one I have in front of me is lettered HTCX 630. This is a good
number
for the Harbor Tank Line Company of Chicago listed in my 1943 ORER.
(by the '50s, I don't know)I am "assuming" that Champ did their
research properly!
A mutual friend of mine and Andy Sperandeo has a model tankcar on
his
layout lettered with decals sent to him by Andy for another New
Orleans molasses company. I think that the name was Richardson but
couldn't swear to it. Andy, do you remember? I'll forward your
message to my friend and ask him to check his car and contact you.
Bill Williams


bill_d_goat
 

--- In STMFC@..., "matthewjstrickland"
<matthewjstrickland@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

Can anyone tell me which type of tank cars were used to transport
molasses to and from refineries in Louisana in the 1950s?

Were any specific road names used eg UTLX , GATX, Sid Richardson?

Thanks in advance for your help

MATT
Matt
I was wrong about the Richardson part.
The name I was thinking about was the Harry L. Laws Molasses Co., also
of New Orleans.
Bill Williams