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Molasses in Tank Cars in the 1950s
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bill_d_goat
--- In STMFC@..., "matthewjstrickland"
<matthewjstrickland@...> wrote: Matt I was wrong about the Richardson part. The name I was thinking about was the Harry L. Laws Molasses Co., also of New Orleans. Bill Williams
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al_brown03
Kaminski's tank car book, p147, shows a builder's photo of ILX 616, a
6000-gallon, ICC 103-W tank built in 1953. The car was uninsulated but had heater coils, is said to belong to the Thomas E. Snyder Sons Company, and advertises its lading as "SWEET PURE MOLASSES". The ILX reporting mark belonged, per the 1/53 ORER, to the Inland Molasses Company, with home points of Chicago, Ill.; East Chicago, Ind.; East St. Louis, Ill.; Goodhope, La.; Hubbard, O.; Kansas City, Mo.; Longview, Tex.; and Sharon, Pa. Inland Molasses had both 6000 and 8000 gallon cars, all ICC 103-W. Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. --- In STMFC@..., "bill_d_goat" <billdgoat@...> wrote: to get these decals when I saw them in the Champ catalog years ago.The one I have in front of me is lettered HTCX 630. This is a goodnumber for the Harbor Tank Line Company of Chicago listed in my 1943 ORER.his layout lettered with decals sent to him by Andy for another New
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bill_d_goat
--- In STMFC@..., "matthewjstrickland"
<matthewjstrickland@...> wrote: Dear Matt I have two tankcars decaled for the "Williams Molasses Co". of New Orleans. My name is Williams and I live in the N.O. area so I had to get these decals when I saw them in the Champ catalog years ago. The one I have in front of me is lettered HTCX 630. This is a good number for the Harbor Tank Line Company of Chicago listed in my 1943 ORER. (by the '50s, I don't know)I am "assuming" that Champ did their research properly! A mutual friend of mine and Andy Sperandeo has a model tankcar on his layout lettered with decals sent to him by Andy for another New Orleans molasses company. I think that the name was Richardson but couldn't swear to it. Andy, do you remember? I'll forward your message to my friend and ask him to check his car and contact you. Bill Williams
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Richard Townsend
Wayne Wesolowski had an article on scratchbuilding a truss-sided "sugar tank car" in the March 1982 RMC. It definitely would have been an industry-owned car rather than one owned by a railroad. The truss sides make it a very eye-catching car. Don't know if it was for molasses or liquid sugar as I am at work and don't have the article here.
Richard Townsend Lincoln City, Oregon ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
Matt, here is a link to a photo of a 1960 molasses car at the Illinois
Railroad Museum www.irm.org/railwire/rw185/rw185a6.html Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/830 - Release Date: 6/3/2007 12:47 PM
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Lee Gautreaux
Tony,
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I plan on modeling a cane sugar mill on my 1960's based Louisiana layout one day, so I've been digging to find any evidence of SP or T&NO lettered tank cars being used at any of those mills/refineries for liquid sugar or molasses service. I interviewed an SP/T&NO freight agent who started in the 1940's who has a good memory about many of the details of the Southdown Sugar refinery on the Houma branch. He says that he cannot recall ever having a railroad lettered tank car at the refinery, only lease fleet cars. I have seen numerous other older photos from various south Louisiana mills and have never seen any SP tank cars. I have seen numerous older, railroad owned gons and box cars, however. Lee A. Gautreaux - The Bayou Foamer http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/ PS - The bristles from a stiff broom make great cane loads. http://tinyurl.com/22ha2h
Hopefully someone will know
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
A.T. Kott wrote:
We saw a lot of the SP diamond "S" tank cars down in San Antonio - Houston area. However, I never did realize that they were associated with sugar production at Sugar Land. They may have been in water service in that configuration here too.I was TOLD that they worked at Sugar Land, don't have any photos showing that. I have seen altogether three photos of SP "restricted stencil" liquid sugar cars and ASRX cars at Arlington. Maybe it was just a yard, don't know what would be the reason for them there. Can anyone help? Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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proto48er
Tony -
We saw a lot of the SP diamond "S" tank cars down in San Antonio - Houston area. However, I never did realize that they were associated with sugar production at Sugar Land. They may have been in water service in that configuration here too. MoP subsidiary Sugar Land RR rostered some raised running board tank cars {SLD #100-#154} (not ACF Type 7's, however) with low domes and very small safety vent valves that were in sugar service there. A couple of them later became auxiliary water cars for steam locos. I know nothing about a facility at Arlington! Did not realize that Arlington, Tx was even near a T&NO line. A.T. Kott --- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote: also, and by an ASRX facility at Arlington (does anyone know about the
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Russ Strodtz wrote:
Ah, a fine point you have made. The CB&Q had hundreds of hoppers with crude stenciling "Beet Service Only". Does anyone think that if they were short on coal hoppers that they would not be used for coal?Quite right, and well put. But the point here is a bit more subtle. The SP put the large white diamond on the dome, with a letter "S" inside it, whenever cars had been modified to be CAPABLE of use in liquid sugar service. They ALSO stenciled under the car number if the car was for "liquid sugar loading only," and as you say, the latter restriction might not always be followed. My point was that the diamond-S emblem by itself was NOT a restriction in any case. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
Tony,
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Ah, a fine point you have made. The CB&Q had hundreds of hoppers with crude stenciling "Beet Service Only". Does anyone think that if they were short on coal hoppers that they would not be used for coal? The same would be true of drop bottom gons. At times I thought the only reason burlap bags were made is to plug holes in the sides of composite built cars. Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson To: STMFC@... Sent: Wednesday, 06 June, 2007 14:45 Subject: Re: [STMFC] Molasses in Tank Cars in the 1950s > Garth G. Groff wrote: >> SP "diamond-s" tanks were frequently seen at the C&H sugar refinery >> at Crockett, California. It is my understanding that they were >> restricted to liquid sugar service . . . I replied: > True, and they were so stenciled for a number of years. Let me clarify. This should not be taken to mean that ALL of the "diamond-S" cars were restricted, only that those stenciled with a restriction notice (such as "for liquid sugar loading only") were restricted. The diamond-S emblem on the dome by itself only meant that the car COULD be used for liquid sugar, and most assuredly did NOT mean that the car was necessarily IN sugar service. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Garth G. Groff wrote:I replied:SP "diamond-s" tanks were frequently seen at the C&H sugar refinery at Crockett, California. It is my understanding that they were restricted to liquid sugar service . . . True, and they were so stenciled for a number of years.Let me clarify. This should not be taken to mean that ALL of the "diamond-S" cars were restricted, only that those stenciled with a restriction notice (such as "for liquid sugar loading only") were restricted. The diamond-S emblem on the dome by itself only meant that the car COULD be used for liquid sugar, and most assuredly did NOT mean that the car was necessarily IN sugar service. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Garth G. Groff wrote:
SP "diamond-s" tanks were frequently seen at the C&H sugar refinery at Crockett, California. It is my understanding that they were restricted to liquid sugar service . . .True, and they were so stenciled for a number of years. Yes. I have photos at Spreckels (note spelling), and I understand they were used by Imperial Sugar at Sugar Land, Texas also, and by an ASRX facility at Arlington (does anyone know about the latter?). Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Richard Hendrickson
On Jun 6, 2007, at 10:26 AM, timboconnor@... wrote:
I think Sid Richardson produces carbon black.True in the '50s, and Sid Richardson also operated a sizable fleet of ICC-105 LPG cars leased (IIRC) from General American (I have photos somewhere but don't have time to look for them right now). No tank cars suitable for molasses service, however. Those famous SP tank cars with the big diamond S on the domeBut not, AFAIK, in Texas; Tony may have more information on this, but it's my understanding that they were essentially in captive service to the big C&H sugar refinery in Crockett, CA. Richard Hendrickson
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Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Tim and Tony:
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SP "diamond-s" tanks were frequently seen at the C&H sugar refinery at Crockett, California. It is my understanding that they were restricted to liquid sugar service (from memory here, based on what I remember from Richard Hendrickson's RMJ article on kitbashing one of these cars). Molasses I know nothing about. I wonder if they were used by other SP-served sugar refiners, say Spreckles or Holly? I used to work across the street from Holly Sugar in Santa Ana, but don't remember seeing any of these cars there. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff Anthony Thompson wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
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Tony
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No, I'm not sure. I just assumed so, since molasses is a precursor in the sugar refining process. But if you don't know, then no one does except perhaps the mysterious Bill Kelly :-)
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> Tim O'Connor wrote:Those famous SP tank cars with the big diamond S on the dome were inI didn't know about the molasses part, Tim. Are you sure?
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Those famous SP tank cars with the big diamond S on the dome were in liquid sugar/molasses service.I didn't know about the molasses part, Tim. Are you sure? Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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I think Sid Richardson produces carbon black.
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Those famous SP tank cars with the big diamond S on the dome were in liquid sugar/molasses service. Tim
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "matthewjstrickland" <matthewjstrickland@...> Hi Guys,
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Matt Strickland wrote:
Can anyone tell me which type of tank cars were used to transport molasses to and from refineries in Louisana in the 1950s?I'm sure it could be an ICC 103, though if molasses is an "unregulated commodity" it could be an AAR 203 also. Were any specific road names used eg UTLX , GATX, Sid Richardson?Richardson was an oil company AFAIK, so probably not that. In the 1950s UTLX was not yet much into leasing other than petroleum products, so much more likely GATX, maybe cars under lease to a company with its name on the car. And don't forget SHPX and NATX, also active at that time in finding lessees. Hopefully someone will know specifically about Louisiana. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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matt
Hi Guys,
Can anyone tell me which type of tank cars were used to transport molasses to and from refineries in Louisana in the 1950s? Were any specific road names used eg UTLX , GATX, Sid Richardson? Thanks in advance for your help MATT
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