Loaded SFRD's in a UP train


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

In Union Pacific Steam in Color by Lloyd Stagner, pg 118, there is a photo showing Big Boy 4015 entering Cheyenne from the west on "...Oct 18, 1958, with RV-954, a "Roseville Block" perishable off the SP at Ogden that consisted of 90 reefers, many of which were SFRD's loaded with grapes." Photo by Stagner. That's two such photos that I'm aware of which indicate large blocks of loaded SFRD cars in a UP train. Interesting. For those not aware, the generally accepted belief [ and I don't question it ] is that UP did not see many loaded SFRD reefers and that the ATSF did not see many loaded PFE reefers. At least in cross country travel. There are exceptions to every rule I guess.

Mike Brock


Tim O'Connor
 

surely a derailment can cause very interesting re-routes, especially
with high priority perishables.

At 6/19/2007 11:56 AM Tuesday, you wrote:
In Union Pacific Steam in Color by Lloyd Stagner, pg 118, there is a photo
showing Big Boy 4015 entering Cheyenne from the west on "...Oct 18, 1958,
with RV-954, a "Roseville Block" perishable off the SP at Ogden that
consisted of 90 reefers, many of which were SFRD's loaded with grapes."
Photo by Stagner. That's two such photos that I'm aware of which indicate
large blocks of loaded SFRD cars in a UP train. Interesting. For those not
aware, the generally accepted belief [ and I don't question it ] is that UP
did not see many loaded SFRD reefers and that the ATSF did not see many
loaded PFE reefers. At least in cross country travel. There are exceptions
to every rule I guess.

Mike Brock


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

There were many shippers served by both the SP and SF. Also consider those on the shortlines like M&ET, etc. Once the cars were placed, there was nothing to keep the shipper from sending a load via ATSF in the PFE car and a car via the UP in the SFRD car.



Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Greg Martin
 

No Tim, Just routed ATSF-STKTN-WP-OGDN-UP-OMH-CNW-CHGO_FF as I have said, just a bridge to Chicago... No direct routing... 3^) a shippers routing I would suppose... I guess the Santa FE Field agents "glad hands" were just no FULL enough... 3^)


Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 9:03 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Loaded SFRD's in a UP train







surely a derailment can cause very interesting re-routes, especially
with high priority perishables.

At 6/19/2007 11:56 AM Tuesday, you wrote:
In Union Pacific Steam in Color by Lloyd Stagner, pg 118, there is a photo
showing Big Boy 4015 entering Cheyenne from the west on "...Oct 18, 1958,
with RV-954, a "Roseville Block" perishable off the SP at Ogden that
consisted of 90 reefers, many of which were SFRD's loaded with grapes."
Photo by Stagner. That's two such photos that I'm aware of which indicate
large blocks of loaded SFRD cars in a UP train. Interesting. For those not
aware, the generally accepted belief [ and I don't question it ] is that UP
did not see many loaded SFRD reefers and that the ATSF did not see many
loaded PFE reefers. At least in cross country travel. There are exceptions
to every rule I guess.

Mike Brock




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Russ Strodtz <sheridan@...>
 

Mike,

Why is that a "Generally accepted belief"?

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, 19 June, 2007 10:56
Subject: [STMFC] Loaded SFRD's in a UP train


In Union Pacific Steam in Color by Lloyd Stagner, pg 118, there
is a photo
showing Big Boy 4015 entering Cheyenne from the west on "...Oct
18, 1958,
with RV-954, a "Roseville Block" perishable off the SP at Ogden
that
consisted of 90 reefers, many of which were SFRD's loaded with
grapes."
Photo by Stagner. That's two such photos that I'm aware of which
indicate
large blocks of loaded SFRD cars in a UP train. Interesting. For
those not
aware, the generally accepted belief [ and I don't question it ]
is that UP
did not see many loaded SFRD reefers and that the ATSF did not
see many
loaded PFE reefers. At least in cross country travel. There are
exceptions
to every rule I guess.

Mike Brock


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Russ Strodtz writes about the lack of loaded SFRD reefers on UP trains:

"Why is that a "Generally accepted belief"?"

It is a theory put forth [ I believe ] by Tony Thompson and supported [ I think ] by Richard Hendrickson. My frt conductor book for 34 UP frt train consists between Laramie and Rawlins, WY, in the spring of 1949 confirms this by showing no loaded and VERY few if any SFRD reefers amid hundreds of PFE reefers. Scanning all of my library I had been unable to find a single SFRD reefer heading east on UP tracks. I did find a few heading west [ presumably MT ]. Recently I uncovered two photos with the caption indicating loaded SFRD reefers in two UP frt trains.

Mike Brock


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Posted by: "tgregmrtn@..." No Tim, Just routed ATSF-STKTN-WP- OGDN-UP-OMH- CNW-CHGO_ FF as I have said, just a bridge to Chicago... No direct routing... 3^) a shippers routing I would suppose... I guess the Santa FE Field agents "glad hands" were just no FULL enough... 3^)

Greg Martin
==============

That brings to mind something else in the service equation. There six possible carriers in that OMH-.....-CHGO. Each of them had different connection patterns at Chicago. I do know that the connections from C&NW and MILW to NYC were excellent. I don't know which had the best connections to the Erie or PRR, but I'm sure there were differences.



Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Mike,
Why is that a "Generally accepted belief"?
Russ.

Interesting. For those not aware, the generally accepted belief [ and I don't question it ]
is that UP did not see many loaded SFRD reefers and that the ATSF did not
see many loaded PFE reefers.
=================

I don't think we have to get into beliefs for this. There's a very simple logic. SP furnished its customers with PFE reefers. ATSF furnished SFRD cars. So it was natural that SFRD cars were a small percentage of UP traffic and v.v. But there were interline routes via junctions in CA. SP and SF of course discourage their use and using such routes probably added a day or two to the transit time, but they were used. And then there is the customer receiving cars from both roads and not billing each car via the road that furnished the car.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


cliffprather
 

There is much evidence (photos, documents, observations)that support
the belief that rather few loaded SFRD reefers were seen in UP or SP
trains and few loaded PFE reefers were seen on the Santa Fe. The
usual exception was for car destine to points served only by the
other carrier or that would require unexceptable long routings.

Another factor could be that during heavy harvest times both PFE and
SFRD were hard pressed to supply enough cars to the railroads that
they normally supplied, so there were not any car available for use
by any other railroad. Perhaps PFE and SFRD would rather not help
out each other any case.

Cliff Prather

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Russ Strodtz writes about the lack of loaded SFRD reefers on UP
trains:

"Why is that a "Generally accepted belief"?"

It is a theory put forth [ I believe ] by Tony Thompson and
supported [ I
think ] by Richard Hendrickson. My frt conductor book for 34 UP
frt train
consists between Laramie and Rawlins, WY, in the spring of 1949
confirms
this by showing no loaded and VERY few if any SFRD reefers amid
hundreds of
PFE reefers. Scanning all of my library I had been unable to find
a single
SFRD reefer heading east on UP tracks. I did find a few heading
west [
presumably MT ]. Recently I uncovered two photos with the caption
indicating
loaded SFRD reefers in two UP frt trains.

Mike Brock


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Cliff Prather wrote:
Another factor could be that during heavy harvest times both PFE and SFRD were hard pressed to supply enough cars to the railroads that they normally supplied, so there were not any car available for use by any other railroad. Perhaps PFE and SFRD would rather not help
out each other any case.
I asked that question of the PFE people I interviewed for the book. They admitted it might be possible for a PFE car to have been loaded on the Santa Fe, or an SFRD on SP or UP, but they all stated they did not personally know of instances in their ENTIRE career of it happening. When I pressed the question to ask, "What if you were really desperate and out of cars?" the answer was, with a smile, "We were never that desperate."
Occasionally in busy times the two organizations might trade supplies of ice, as did happen several times, but evidently not cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Steve SANDIFER
 

For what it's worth, last week I saw a photo of a PFE reefer (double logo) at a mercantile in Emporia, KS, on ATSF tracks (circa 1950). It had to come from either Topeka, Kansas City, or Wichita on ATSF.
______________
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mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Loaded SFRD's in a UP train


Russ Strodtz writes about the lack of loaded SFRD reefers on UP trains:

"Why is that a "Generally accepted belief"?"

It is a theory put forth [ I believe ] by Tony Thompson and supported [ I
think ] by Richard Hendrickson. My frt conductor book for 34 UP frt train
consists between Laramie and Rawlins, WY, in the spring of 1949 confirms
this by showing no loaded and VERY few if any SFRD reefers amid hundreds of
PFE reefers. Scanning all of my library I had been unable to find a single
SFRD reefer heading east on UP tracks. I did find a few heading west [
presumably MT ]. Recently I uncovered two photos with the caption indicating
loaded SFRD reefers in two UP frt trains.

Mike Brock