HOME HEATING COAL


joel norman <mec-bml@...>
 

ANYONE CLEAR THIS UP:
1940'S NEW ENGLAND....WHICH RAILROADS WOULD HAVE HAULED HOME HEATING
COAL TO DEALERS IN NEW ENGLAND?SEEN MANY A PHOTO WITH A B&O(LARGE B&O)
HOPPER IN A LOCAL ''POCKET''WHO ELSE WOULD HAVE THIS BUSINESS IN THE
LATE 30'S INTO EARLY 50'S???
IS THERE A PHOTO FILE SOMEWERE SHOWING THESE CARS VS.HO MODELS????
THANKS
JOEL NORMAN


Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Joel,

You may try the New haven list for help with this one. The NH had coal docks on the east coast to transfer to cars for delivery. One I recall was in New Bedford, MA. Also, there was a Mystic Coal facility in the back of Boston Harbor served by the B&M. As a youngin' I remember seeing the B&A hoppers spotted out in the Allston / Brighton area, as well as the Newton area.
There are several choices depending on your RR if interest; or you can use one or two from each. The only other hoppers I recall were PRR and an occasional B&O. Most, if not all were the twin hoppers. Only the power plants rec'd the larger 3 and 4 pocket cars. hope this helps in your search for accurate info.

Fred Freitas

joel norman <mec-bml@...> wrote:
ANYONE CLEAR THIS UP:
1940'S NEW ENGLAND....WHICH RAILROADS WOULD HAVE HAULED HOME HEATING
COAL TO DEALERS IN NEW ENGLAND?SEEN MANY A PHOTO WITH A B&O(LARGE B&O)
HOPPER IN A LOCAL ''POCKET''WHO ELSE WOULD HAVE THIS BUSINESS IN THE
LATE 30'S INTO EARLY 50'S???
IS THERE A PHOTO FILE SOMEWERE SHOWING THESE CARS VS.HO MODELS????
THANKS
JOEL NORMAN


Tim O'Connor
 

Joel

All of them DELIVERED home heating coal.

Coal ORIGINATED outside New England -- in Pennsylvania, Ohio,
West Virginia, Maryland, Virginia, Kentucky, etc. So most of the coal
would arrive in non-New England railroad hopper cars or gondolas
or even, yes, box cars. Only D&H and NYC served coal mines and
would have been in a position to deliver coal to directly New England
customers.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "joel norman" <mec-bml@...>
ANYONE CLEAR THIS UP:
1940'S NEW ENGLAND....WHICH RAILROADS WOULD HAVE HAULED HOME HEATING
COAL TO DEALERS IN NEW ENGLAND?SEEN MANY A PHOTO WITH A B&O(LARGE B&O)
HOPPER IN A LOCAL ''POCKET''WHO ELSE WOULD HAVE THIS BUSINESS IN THE
LATE 30'S INTO EARLY 50'S???
IS THERE A PHOTO FILE SOMEWERE SHOWING THESE CARS VS.HO MODELS????
THANKS
JOEL NORMAN


boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

This is more of a question than an answer.

Didn't a couple of New England roads have coal import port
facilities? (Example, BAR at Searsport) This would have allowed coal
originating on roads such as N&W and C&O to arrive by water and be
delivered in home road cars.

John King


--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:

Joel

All of them DELIVERED home heating coal.

Coal ORIGINATED outside New England -- in Pennsylvania, Ohio,
West Virginia, Maryland, Virginia, Kentucky, etc. So most of the
coal
would arrive in non-New England railroad hopper cars or gondolas
or even, yes, box cars. Only D&H and NYC served coal mines and
would have been in a position to deliver coal to directly New
England
customers.

Tim O'Connor


-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "joel norman" <mec-bml@...>
ANYONE CLEAR THIS UP:
1940'S NEW ENGLAND....WHICH RAILROADS WOULD HAVE HAULED HOME
HEATING
COAL TO DEALERS IN NEW ENGLAND?SEEN MANY A PHOTO WITH A B&O(LARGE
B&O)
HOPPER IN A LOCAL ''POCKET''WHO ELSE WOULD HAVE THIS BUSINESS IN
THE
LATE 30'S INTO EARLY 50'S???
IS THERE A PHOTO FILE SOMEWERE SHOWING THESE CARS VS.HO MODELS????
THANKS
JOEL NORMAN


Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tim,

Your statement doesn't account for so-called Tidewater coal (N&W, C&O or VGN), at least some of which went north from Hampton Roads by collier or barge to New York or Boston, then was reshipped by rail from there. We've discussed these movements before on this group. Nearly all of this would have been bituminous coal. I don't know how much was sold as steamer coal versus home heating coal. This traffic would partly account for hopper fleets owned by the CV, B&M and New Haven.

At least some of this traffic still goes on, or at least did until recently, now destined only for power plants. When I was in the Coast Guard at Portsmouth, Virginia, during 1982-83 I did the news releases for the infamous case of a collier called the Marine Electric which went down off Maryland. This was, of course, outside of our time frame.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

timboconnor@... wrote:

Joel

All of them DELIVERED home heating coal.

Coal ORIGINATED outside New England -- in Pennsylvania, Ohio,
West Virginia, Maryland, Virginia, Kentucky, etc. So most of the coal
would arrive in non-New England railroad hopper cars or gondolas
or even, yes, box cars. Only D&H and NYC served coal mines and
would have been in a position to deliver coal to directly New England
customers.

Tim O'Connor


-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "joel norman" <mec-bml@...>

ANYONE CLEAR THIS UP:
1940'S NEW ENGLAND....WHICH RAILROADS WOULD HAVE HAULED HOME HEATING COAL TO DEALERS IN NEW ENGLAND?SEEN MANY A PHOTO WITH A B&O(LARGE B&O)
HOPPER IN A LOCAL ''POCKET''WHO ELSE WOULD HAVE THIS BUSINESS IN THE LATE 30'S INTO EARLY 50'S???
IS THERE A PHOTO FILE SOMEWERE SHOWING THESE CARS VS.HO MODELS????
THANKS
JOEL NORMAN

Yahoo! Groups Links




Tim O'Connor
 

Actually, most of the barged coal was consumed along the coastlines. And I
did say "most" coal, not all.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...>
Tim,

Your statement doesn't account for so-called Tidewater coal (N&W, C&O or
VGN), at least some of which went north from Hampton Roads by collier or
barge to New York or Boston, then was reshipped by rail from there.


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Only D&H and NYC, and DL&W and O&W, and RDG, and B&O and PRR, and a few more, Tim. Your list of
coal originating roads is way too short . Delivery, yes, NYC and D&H could both make it into New
England, though the D&H was only a toehold. But all New England railroads delivered hoppers of
coal, for home heating and for industrial use, back when we had some industry in New England.

SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of timboconnor@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 1:36 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] HOME HEATING COAL

Joel

All of them DELIVERED home heating coal.

Coal ORIGINATED outside New England -- in Pennsylvania, Ohio,
West Virginia, Maryland, Virginia, Kentucky, etc. So most of the coal
would arrive in non-New England railroad hopper cars or gondolas
or even, yes, box cars. Only D&H and NYC served coal mines and
would have been in a position to deliver coal to directly New England
customers.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "joel norman" <mec-bml@...
<mailto:mec-bml%40sbcglobal.net> >
ANYONE CLEAR THIS UP:
1940'S NEW ENGLAND....WHICH RAILROADS WOULD HAVE HAULED
HOME HEATING
COAL TO DEALERS IN NEW ENGLAND?SEEN MANY A PHOTO WITH A
B&O(LARGE B&O)
HOPPER IN A LOCAL ''POCKET''WHO ELSE WOULD HAVE THIS
BUSINESS IN THE
LATE 30'S INTO EARLY 50'S???
IS THERE A PHOTO FILE SOMEWERE SHOWING THESE CARS VS.HO MODELS????
THANKS
JOEL NORMAN



Schuyler Larrabee
 

I know that the DL&W had sea-going tugs which were built for the purpose of taking barges of
Anthracite to New England ports. I know, further, that one port was Salem, MA. I suspect that
other ports were in Maine, and Portsmouth NH, New Bedford MA, and points in RI and CT. But I don't
have any proof of these last.

SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of Garth G. Groff
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 2:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] HOME HEATING COAL

Tim,

Your statement doesn't account for so-called Tidewater coal
(N&W, C&O or
VGN), at least some of which went north from Hampton Roads by
collier or
barge to New York or Boston, then was reshipped by rail from there.
We've discussed these movements before on this group. Nearly
all of this
would have been bituminous coal. I don't know how much was sold as
steamer coal versus home heating coal. This traffic would
partly account
for hopper fleets owned by the CV, B&M and New Haven.

At least some of this traffic still goes on, or at least did until
recently, now destined only for power plants. When I was in the Coast
Guard at Portsmouth, Virginia, during 1982-83 I did the news releases
for the infamous case of a collier called the Marine Electric
which went
down off Maryland. This was, of course, outside of our time frame.

Kind regards,

Garth G. Groff

timboconnor@... <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> wrote:
Joel

All of them DELIVERED home heating coal.

Coal ORIGINATED outside New England -- in Pennsylvania, Ohio,
West Virginia, Maryland, Virginia, Kentucky, etc. So most
of the coal
would arrive in non-New England railroad hopper cars or gondolas
or even, yes, box cars. Only D&H and NYC served coal mines and
would have been in a position to deliver coal to directly
New England
customers.

Tim O'Connor


-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "joel norman" <mec-bml@...
<mailto:mec-bml%40sbcglobal.net> >

ANYONE CLEAR THIS UP:
1940'S NEW ENGLAND....WHICH RAILROADS WOULD HAVE HAULED
HOME HEATING
COAL TO DEALERS IN NEW ENGLAND?SEEN MANY A PHOTO WITH A
B&O(LARGE B&O)
HOPPER IN A LOCAL ''POCKET''WHO ELSE WOULD HAVE THIS
BUSINESS IN THE
LATE 30'S INTO EARLY 50'S???
IS THERE A PHOTO FILE SOMEWERE SHOWING THESE CARS VS.HO MODELS????
THANKS
JOEL NORMAN


Yahoo! Groups Links







Tim O'Connor
 

Read the whole sentence Schuyler -- only < > served coal mines
AND (a logical conjunction, you're familiar with it?) [could]
deliver coal directly to NEW ENGLAND customers.

DL&W did not run in any of the New England states. Nor did B&O,
PRR, O&W, RDG, etc.

At 7/10/2007 09:53 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
Only D&H and NYC, and DL&W and O&W, and RDG, and B&O and PRR, and a few more, Tim. Your list of
coal originating roads is way too short . Delivery, yes, NYC and D&H could both make it into New
England, though the D&H was only a toehold. But all New England railroads delivered hoppers of
coal, for home heating and for industrial use, back when we had some industry in New England.

SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of timboconnor@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 1:36 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] HOME HEATING COAL

Joel

All of them DELIVERED home heating coal.

Coal ORIGINATED outside New England -- in Pennsylvania, Ohio,
West Virginia, Maryland, Virginia, Kentucky, etc. So most of the coal
would arrive in non-New England railroad hopper cars or gondolas
or even, yes, box cars. Only D&H and NYC served coal mines and
would have been in a position to deliver coal to directly New England
customers.

Tim O'Connor


Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

For what it is worth, during the years that I lived on a farmstead in northern Vermont, we heated the house primarily with anthracite from Pennsylvania (supplemented with gas [propane] and wood). Although this was in the years after rail transport, my understanding at the time was that anthracite had been the primary coal sold for home heating for some decades- thus implying coal at one time being shipped into Vermont in Reading or D&H cars.

I have had a LOT of experience shovelling, laying up, and burning anthracite coal- and it was an acquired skill and art. It lived up to its reputation as being a very hot clean fuel, however, and the daily transport of ashes out to coat the public dirt road in front of the house was in fact always very light duty.

Denny

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Rather than make responses to all of the posts on this, I'll just summarize my reactions to them.

I believe most of the home heating coal in New England was anthracite, which was preferred because it made less smoke. The closest coal mines to New England were the anthracite mines in the Scranton area. To get bituminous to New England would have been a much longer haul, the nearest being the Clearfield district.

As for marks, originating roads were Erie, DL&W, LV, CNJ, PRR, NYO&W, D&H and RDG, but not B&O. However, since B&O shared it's route to New York with RDG and CNJ, it would not be surprising that their cars would be coming into NE with anthracite. The other highly likely foreign mark from those mines would be NYC.

As for routes and destinations:

- The furthest east junctions of the anthracite roads were Rutland, VT, Mechanicville, NY and Maybrook, NY. That means that all of it had to move on NH, NYC, B&M or RUT, but destinations could be anywhere on CV, MEC, BAR, GT and the short lines.

- Every town in New england would have received anthracite loads as there was a coal dealer in every town of any size - like fuel oil dealers today.

As for that barge coal, it was mostly from bituminous areas, and I believe it went mainly to power plants. It's interesting to note that most of the large power plants in CT and RI and around NYC are on navigable waterways.

One notable exception. When I was a small boy, I would look out of my father's office on the 55th floor of 60 Wall and watch the cars rolling through the CNJ car dumper. Pretty strong evidence of barging of anthracite also.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


armprem
 

Gasification plants were still continued burning cheaper soft coal.RutlandTrain #10 brought much coal to Vermont via the NYCinterchange at Norwood,NY.TheD&H brought coal to Center Rutland and Rouses Point,NY.The Central Vermont may have picked up some coal at New London.Does anyone have evidence?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Laughlin" <mlaughlinnyc@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:22 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: HOME HEATING COAL


Rather than make responses to all of the posts on this, I'll just summarize my reactions to them.

I believe most of the home heating coal in New England was anthracite, which was preferred because it made less smoke. The closest coal mines to New England were the anthracite mines in the Scranton area. To get bituminous to New England would have been a much longer haul, the nearest being the Clearfield district.

As for marks, originating roads were Erie, DL&W, LV, CNJ, PRR, NYO&W, D&H and RDG, but not B&O. However, since B&O shared it's route to New York with RDG and CNJ, it would not be surprising that their cars would be coming into NE with anthracite. The other highly likely foreign mark from those mines would be NYC.

As for routes and destinations:

- The furthest east junctions of the anthracite roads were Rutland, VT, Mechanicville, NY and Maybrook, NY. That means that all of it had to move on NH, NYC, B&M or RUT, but destinations could be anywhere on CV, MEC, BAR, GT and the short lines.

- Every town in New england would have received anthracite loads as there was a coal dealer in every town of any size - like fuel oil dealers today.

As for that barge coal, it was mostly from bituminous areas, and I believe it went mainly to power plants. It's interesting to note that most of the large power plants in CT and RI and around NYC are on navigable waterways.

One notable exception. When I was a small boy, I would look out of my father's office on the 55th floor of 60 Wall and watch the cars rolling through the CNJ car dumper. Pretty strong evidence of barging of anthracite also.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478





Yahoo! Groups Links



William Bryk <wmbryk@...>
 

This seems to explain the surprisingly large Rutland hopper car fleet,
doesn't it? It always seemed a bit unusual for a Vermont carrier to have so
many hoppers.

Regards,
William Bryk

On 7/11/07, Armand Premo <armprem@...> wrote:

Gasification plants were still continued burning cheaper soft
coal.RutlandTrain #10 brought much coal to Vermont via the NYCinterchange
at
Norwood,NY.TheD&H brought coal to Center Rutland and Rouses Point,NY.The
Central Vermont may have picked up some coal at New London.Does anyone
have
evidence?Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Laughlin" <mlaughlinnyc@...<mlaughlinnyc%40yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@... <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:22 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: HOME HEATING COAL

Rather than make responses to all of the posts on this, I'll just
summarize my reactions to them.

I believe most of the home heating coal in New England was anthracite,
which was preferred because it made less smoke. The closest coal mines
to
New England were the anthracite mines in the Scranton area. To get
bituminous to New England would have been a much longer haul, the
nearest
being the Clearfield district.

As for marks, originating roads were Erie, DL&W, LV, CNJ, PRR, NYO&W,
D&H
and RDG, but not B&O. However, since B&O shared it's route to New York
with RDG and CNJ, it would not be surprising that their cars would be
coming into NE with anthracite. The other highly likely foreign mark
from
those mines would be NYC.

As for routes and destinations:

- The furthest east junctions of the anthracite roads were Rutland, VT,
Mechanicville, NY and Maybrook, NY. That means that all of it had to
move
on NH, NYC, B&M or RUT, but destinations could be anywhere on CV, MEC,
BAR, GT and the short lines.

- Every town in New england would have received anthracite loads as
there
was a coal dealer in every town of any size - like fuel oil dealers
today.

As for that barge coal, it was mostly from bituminous areas, and I
believe it went mainly to power plants. It's interesting to note that
most of the large power plants in CT and RI and around NYC are on
navigable waterways.

One notable exception. When I was a small boy, I would look out of my
father's office on the 55th floor of 60 Wall and watch the cars rolling
through the CNJ car dumper. Pretty strong evidence of barging of
anthracite also.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478






Yahoo! Groups Links




Tim O'Connor
 

Don't forget the Rutland served a port on Lake Ontario. A lot
of coal travelled on the Great Lakes.

At 7/11/2007 09:29 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
This seems to explain the surprisingly large Rutland hopper car fleet,
doesn't it? It always seemed a bit unusual for a Vermont carrier to have so
many hoppers.

Regards,
William Bryk


MDelvec952
 

In a message dated 7/12/2007 9:35:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
r111369@... writes:

In Ogdensburg Rutland hoppers used in coal service for the state
hospital in Ogdensburg, NY.


------------------

I, for one, learned a bit from this thread. Back in the 1980s when I felt
like Jersey's only freight car buff (preservationists' attentions seemed
strictly locomotive back then), I was involved with several museums and historical
societies around the country and trying to get surviving steam era cars into
collections. There were a short string of two-pocket DL&W hoppers, including
a two with offset sides, stranded at that hospital in Ogdensburg at that
time. As sometimes happened, disturbing the owner of a car in the effort to
save it can cause its demise. In this case, one out of the five got preserved,
the offset side car, which is currently at the fairgrounds in Syracuse and
owned by the Central New York Chapter NRHS. I always thought it odd that these
things got stranded up there, since even the Erie-Lackawanna didn't want
them back.

Mike Del Vecchio





************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


armprem
 

You are absolutely correct Tim.The Rutland had a terminal in Ogdensburgh ,NY.I think this operation was largely for domestic use.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:45 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: HOME HEATING COAL



Don't forget the Rutland served a port on Lake Ontario. A lot
of coal travelled on the Great Lakes.


At 7/11/2007 09:29 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
This seems to explain the surprisingly large Rutland hopper car fleet,
doesn't it? It always seemed a bit unusual for a Vermont carrier to have so
many hoppers.

Regards,
William Bryk



Yahoo! Groups Links



B.T. Charles
 

--- In STMFC@..., "William Bryk" <wmbryk@...> wrote:

This seems to explain the surprisingly large Rutland hopper car fleet,
doesn't it? It always seemed a bit unusual for a Vermont carrier to
have so
many hoppers.

Regards,
William Bryk
Without digging too deep into my records and books, and open to
correction… The Rutland's large fleet of hopper cars can be
deceiving, given the territory and eras covered. The original USRA 55
ton hoppers (10000-10099 series, 100 in class) were used primarily to
move soft coal from stores at Ogdensburg, NY and Alburgh, VT for
company service and on line customers. In bound coal drags came off
the NYC at Chatham, and were sent directly to the customers, or taken
to the Alburgh coal trestle, transferred into the 10000 class hoppers,
or stored for later demand to eliminate demurrage charges. Even when
down graded to home road only status, there are reported sightings of
the 10000 series hoppers in New York City, stenciled for such service.
The later 700 series hoppers (750-764, 15 total) were purchased used.
In Ogdensburg Rutland hoppers used in coal service for the state
hospital in Ogdensburg, NY. Rutland hoppers were also used in sand
service for "Seaway Building Supply in Ogdensburg. Cars regularly
assigned towards the end to Ogdensburg coal and sand service were;
"763, 10039, 761, 762, 10095, 753, 756, 750, 10031, 10026". (Nimke
Vol. VI Part 1 p186)

Hope this helps…

Rome Romano


armprem
 

The Rutland 10000 series hoppers WERE NOT USRA hoppers.They were built earlier and were very similar to the Pennsy GLAs.If you check the dimensions you will see the differences>Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rome" <r111369@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:33 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: HOME HEATING COAL


--- In STMFC@..., "William Bryk" <wmbryk@...> wrote:

This seems to explain the surprisingly large Rutland hopper car fleet,
doesn't it? It always seemed a bit unusual for a Vermont carrier to
have so
many hoppers.

Regards,
William Bryk
Without digging too deep into my records and books, and open to
correction. The Rutland's large fleet of hopper cars can be
deceiving, given the territory and eras covered. The original USRA 55
ton hoppers (10000-10099 series, 100 in class) were used primarily to
move soft coal from stores at Ogdensburg, NY and Alburgh, VT for
company service and on line customers. In bound coal drags came off
the NYC at Chatham, and were sent directly to the customers, or taken
to the Alburgh coal trestle, transferred into the 10000 class hoppers,
or stored for later demand to eliminate demurrage charges. Even when
down graded to home road only status, there are reported sightings of
the 10000 series hoppers in New York City, stenciled for such service.
The later 700 series hoppers (750-764, 15 total) were purchased used.
In Ogdensburg Rutland hoppers used in coal service for the state
hospital in Ogdensburg, NY. Rutland hoppers were also used in sand
service for "Seaway Building Supply in Ogdensburg. Cars regularly
assigned towards the end to Ogdensburg coal and sand service were;
"763, 10039, 761, 762, 10095, 753, 756, 750, 10031, 10026". (Nimke
Vol. VI Part 1 p186)

Hope this helps.

Rome Romano




Yahoo! Groups Links


armprem
 

As mentioned in a previous post the Rutland stopped sending their hoppers off-line to mines in 1923.Notewothy was the relatively large number of hopper bottom gons on the roster numbering some105 in 1930.Foreign hoppers were emptied and the coal was stored in a large coaling facility at Alburgh , in company hoppers,gons,and at times , on the ground.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Bryk" <wmbryk@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: HOME HEATING COAL


This seems to explain the surprisingly large Rutland hopper car fleet,
doesn't it? It always seemed a bit unusual for a Vermont carrier to have so
many hoppers.

Regards,
William Bryk

On 7/11/07, Armand Premo <armprem@...> wrote:

Gasification plants were still continued burning cheaper soft
coal.RutlandTrain #10 brought much coal to Vermont via the NYCinterchange
at
Norwood,NY.TheD&H brought coal to Center Rutland and Rouses Point,NY.The
Central Vermont may have picked up some coal at New London.Does anyone
have
evidence?Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Laughlin" <mlaughlinnyc@...<mlaughlinnyc%40yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@... <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:22 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: HOME HEATING COAL

Rather than make responses to all of the posts on this, I'll just
summarize my reactions to them.

I believe most of the home heating coal in New England was anthracite,
which was preferred because it made less smoke. The closest coal mines
to
New England were the anthracite mines in the Scranton area. To get
bituminous to New England would have been a much longer haul, the
nearest
being the Clearfield district.

As for marks, originating roads were Erie, DL&W, LV, CNJ, PRR, NYO&W,
D&H
and RDG, but not B&O. However, since B&O shared it's route to New York
with RDG and CNJ, it would not be surprising that their cars would be
coming into NE with anthracite. The other highly likely foreign mark
from
those mines would be NYC.

As for routes and destinations:

- The furthest east junctions of the anthracite roads were Rutland, VT,
Mechanicville, NY and Maybrook, NY. That means that all of it had to
move
on NH, NYC, B&M or RUT, but destinations could be anywhere on CV, MEC,
BAR, GT and the short lines.

- Every town in New england would have received anthracite loads as
there
was a coal dealer in every town of any size - like fuel oil dealers
today.

As for that barge coal, it was mostly from bituminous areas, and I
believe it went mainly to power plants. It's interesting to note that
most of the large power plants in CT and RI and around NYC are on
navigable waterways.

One notable exception. When I was a small boy, I would look out of my
father's office on the 55th floor of 60 Wall and watch the cars rolling
through the CNJ car dumper. Pretty strong evidence of barging of
anthracite also.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478





Yahoo! Groups Links








Yahoo! Groups Links



B.T. Charles
 

"Armand Premo" <armprem@...> wrote:

The Rutland 10000 series hoppers WERE NOT USRA hoppers.
They were built earlier and were very similar to the
Pennsy GLAs.If you check the dimensions
you will see the differences>Armand Premo
Armand,

thank you for the correction. While I am not a rivet counter, when
posting I should be more accurate. The builders date I have readily
at hand is 1915, the measurements are in a safe place... buried in my
archives. I remember Jeff English telling me that to build a correct
Rutland 10000 I had to start with a Westerfield 3 bay and cut it down,
as a two bay was not available at the time. This was shortly after
the Tichy "USRA" was produced with the wide middle panel.

Rome