1952 Magor hoppers or covered hoppers


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I have photos of some Magor cars SP acquired second-hand, though I don't know from whom. In the SP photos, they are 3050-cubic foot covered hoppers with conventional covered hopper outlets, but the sides look like ordinary riveted outside-stake hoppers. Their inside length was 41 feet even, which doesn't match any cars built in 1952 which are in the builder list in the Magor book. SP only got 13 of them. Does anyone have an idea of whose covered hoppers (or perhaps regular hoppers, rebuilt as covered hoppers) these might have been?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

car numbers?

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
I have photos of some Magor cars SP acquired second-hand, though I
don't know from whom. In the SP photos, they are 3050-cubic foot
covered hoppers with conventional covered hopper outlets, but the sides
look like ordinary riveted outside-stake hoppers. Their inside length
was 41 feet even, which doesn't match any cars built in 1952 which are
in the builder list in the Magor book. SP only got 13 of them. Does
anyone have an idea of whose covered hoppers (or perhaps regular
hoppers, rebuilt as covered hoppers) these might have been?

Tony Thompson


Tony Thompson
 

car numbers?
Good point. SP 402300-402312. What i really WANT to know is the original numbers and reporting marks <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Lee Gautreaux
 

Tony,

I've been wondering about these cars for a long time as well. I
hope you can unravel the mystery before the SP Hopper/Tank book goes
to press. What color are they and did they feature similar
lettering as SP cov'd hoppers of the time? Do they have the
sampling spigots as carbon black cars do? Could they have been
rebuilt from carbon black cars? Magor built some in the early days
of carbon black transportation.

Lee A. Gautreaux - Guitar Hero in Training
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/




I have photos of some Magor cars SP acquired second-hand,
though I
don't know from whom. In the SP photos, they are 3050-cubic foot
covered hoppers with conventional covered hopper outlets, but the
sides
look like ordinary riveted outside-stake hoppers. Their inside
length
was 41 feet even, which doesn't match any cars built in 1952 which
are
in the builder list in the Magor book. SP only got 13 of them.
Does
anyone have an idea of whose covered hoppers (or perhaps regular
hoppers, rebuilt as covered hoppers) these might have been?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Ed Hawkins
 

On Jul 16, 2007, at 7:48 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:

car numbers?
Good point. SP 402300-402312. What i really WANT to know is the
original numbers and reporting marks <g>.

Tony,
When did SP get these cars? I checked the 1/59 ORER (my closest to
1960) and they're not listed. They also aren't in the 7/62 ORER. The
numbers jump from 402297 to 403000. All of the covered hopper cars
built by Magor in 1952 were carbon black cars. Could it be one of
these?
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Lee Gautreaux wrote:
I've been wondering about these cars for a long time as well. I hope you can unravel the mystery before the SP Hopper/Tank book goes to press.
This is, of course, the goal <g>.

What color are they and did they feature similar lettering as SP cov'd hoppers of the time?
They are black, and have the usual SP covered hopper lettering in white.

Do they have the sampling spigots as carbon black cars do? Could they have been rebuilt from carbon black cars? Magor built some in the early days of carbon black transportation.
I had this thought too, as that was practically all the covered hoppers in Magor's output in those days. But all those carbon black cars are 45 feet or 46 feet long inside. It sure would seem odd to cut five feet out of a carbon black car (and almost a foot out of the height), just to make a 3050-cubic foot car. And no, no sample spigots. They have what look like conventional covered hopper round roof hatches, five on each side of the car.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Lee Gautreaux
 

Ed,

No cars by those numbers are listed in my 7/63 ORER, but all 13 cars
are listed in my 1/65 ORER, so they were apparently acquired between
those dates. BTW, ex T&NO cov'd hoppers were renumbered to SP 401550-
402297 starting in the early 1960's, so they were numbered on top of
this number group. These numbers were later re-used for cars rebuilt
in the 1970's.

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/


Tony,
When did SP get these cars? I checked the 1/59 ORER (my closest to
1960) and they're not listed. They also aren't in the 7/62 ORER. The
numbers jump from 402297 to 403000. All of the covered hopper cars
built by Magor in 1952 were carbon black cars. Could it be one of
these?
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

Strangely, I have notes on these cars, 402298-402322, including
that they have 10 hatches. But I have no idea why I have that note
and I can't recall seeing a picture of one. I have all emails since
1996 indexed and I still can't figure out where I got this data...

Tim O'Connor

At 7/16/2007 09:36 PM Monday, you wrote:
Lee Gautreaux wrote:
I've been wondering about these cars for a long time as well. I hope
you can unravel the mystery before the SP Hopper/Tank book goes to
press.
This is, of course, the goal <g>.

What color are they and did they feature similar lettering as SP cov'd
hoppers of the time?
They are black, and have the usual SP covered hopper lettering
in white.

Do they have the sampling spigots as carbon black cars do? Could they
have been rebuilt from carbon black cars? Magor built some in the
early days of carbon black transportation.
I had this thought too, as that was practically all the covered
hoppers in Magor's output in those days. But all those carbon black
cars are 45 feet or 46 feet long inside. It sure would seem odd to cut
five feet out of a carbon black car (and almost a foot out of the
height), just to make a 3050-cubic foot car. And no, no sample spigots.
They have what look like conventional covered hopper round roof
hatches, five on each side of the car.

Tony Thompson


Tony Thompson
 

Ed Hawkins wrote:
When did SP get these cars? I checked the 1/59 ORER (my closest to 1960) and they're not listed. They also aren't in the 7/62 ORER. The numbers jump from 402297 to 403000. All of the covered hopper cars built by Magor in 1952 were carbon black cars. Could it be one of these?
Good questions, Ed. The cars were built in 1952, thus within the range of this list, but were acquired by SP in the summer of 1963, after this list. No, all the covered hoppers built by Magor in 1952 were NOT carbon black cars; they built 25 cars for GACX (leased to Phillips), Lot W-2408, but those are somewhat different dimensionally, and weren't identified by Magor as carbon black cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

All I can think is that a 10-hatch, 40 foot covered hopper
built in 1952 would look a lot like a clone of a PS-2 2893cft.
But 1952 is a bit early for a PS-2 I think...

I have an ACF builder photo of SSW 76053, built 12-51, and it
has 10 square hatches... but it has less than 3000cft (looks like
2745, kinda blurry). I have photos of nearly identical ACF cars
built for T&P, and Anhauser Busch. And M-I in 1948 too (2828 cft).

Tim O

At 7/16/2007 10:01 PM Monday, you wrote:
Ed Hawkins wrote:
When did SP get these cars? I checked the 1/59 ORER (my closest to
1960) and they're not listed. They also aren't in the 7/62 ORER. The
numbers jump from 402297 to 403000. All of the covered hopper cars
built by Magor in 1952 were carbon black cars. Could it be one of
these?
Good questions, Ed. The cars were built in 1952, thus within the
range of this list, but were acquired by SP in the summer of 1963,
after this list. No, all the covered hoppers built by Magor in 1952
were NOT carbon black cars; they built 25 cars for GACX (leased to
Phillips), Lot W-2408, but those are somewhat different dimensionally,
and weren't identified by Magor as carbon black cars.

Tony Thompson


Lee Gautreaux
 

Tim,

These were the numbers re-used for rebuilt 70 ton, two bay cov'd
hoppers in the 1970's. The cars Tony is interrested in (SP 402300-
402312) were off the roster by then.

Lee G.


Tony

Strangely, I have notes on these cars, 402298-402322, including
that they have 10 hatches. But I have no idea why I have that note
and I can't recall seeing a picture of one. I have all emails since
1996 indexed and I still can't figure out where I got this data...

Tim O'Connor


Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

Aha!! Check out page 1109 of the 1953 Car Builder's Cyclopedia.
I thought it might be an export car -- for Mexico! (The one in
the photo is 3100cft, with 1 extra rib, but it's basically the
same car.)

Tim O'Connor


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
All I can think is that a 10-hatch, 40 foot covered hopper built in 1952 would look a lot like a clone of a PS-2 2893cft. But 1952 is a bit early for a PS-2 I think...
Plus this car is all riveted. I still think the car MIGHT have been a regular hopper originally, though that would mean completely new outlets.

I have an ACF builder photo of SSW 76053, built 12-51, and it has 10 square hatches... but it has less than 3000cft (looks like 2745, kinda blurry). I have photos of nearly identical ACF cars
built for T&P, and Anhauser Busch. And M-I in 1948 too (2828 cft).
I have a nice, sharp company view of SSW 76035, built 12-51, and it has welded square-section ribs except for the bolster ribs, which are T-sections. It has 10 square hatches, all right, and 12 side ribs; capacity is 2765 cubic feet. The SP Class H-50-10 we are discussing has 10 ribs, eight along the body which are angles, with channel ribs at the bolsters, and as I said, all riveted, and has an outside hatch locking rod and 3050 cubic feet. Not a lot like the Cotton Belt car.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Aha!! Check out page 1109 of the 1953 Car Builder's Cyclopedia. I thought it might be an export car -- for Mexico! (The one in the photo is 3100cft, with 1 extra rib, but it's basically the same car.)
Excellent catch, Tim. The Cyc photo is fairly small, but the car sure looks identical in all regards, including dimensions. Wonder how SP got ahold of these Mexican grain cars--could have been a broker in the middle--and we know SP was short of covered hoppers in that period. And the company shown as buying the cars fits exactly with the Magor builder list.
Now to trace the Compania Exportadora e Importadora Mexicana, SA, in the Registers <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history