Freight Car Parts


Paul Hillman
 

Is there a book which has attempted to contain all of the various
freight car component descriptions, such as Murphy roofs, Duryea
underframes, Youngstown doors, etc., etc., all the myriad types of
ends, doors, etc. which are talked about/used in the various car
constructions?

I mean a book which describes these various components without
necessarily going into specific cars themselves?

I know that this info can be gleaned "piece-meal" from the multitude of
construction articles and books, but I think it would be an excellent
quick-reference to these components.

Thanks, Paul Hillman


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 20, 2007, at 1:39 PM, Paul & Bernice Hillman wrote:

Is there a book which has attempted to contain all of the various
freight car component descriptions, such as Murphy roofs, Duryea
underframes, Youngstown doors, etc., etc., all the myriad types of
ends, doors, etc. which are talked about/used in the various car
constructions?

I mean a book which describes these various components without
necessarily going into specific cars themselves?

I know that this info can be gleaned "piece-meal" from the multitude
of
construction articles and books, but I think it would be an excellent
quick-reference to these components.
There is no such book, Paul, though there should be. I've sometimes
considered producing one myself, but I already have a number of other
publishing commitments.

Richard Hendrickson


jerryglow2
 

As Richard already commented, there isn't but Carbuilders Cyclopedias
contain builders plugs on their own equipment plus a section on parts
details. Not all inclusive nor that readily available.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Paul & Bernice Hillman"
<chris_hillman@...> wrote:

Is there a book which has attempted to contain all of the various
freight car component descriptions, such as Murphy roofs, Duryea
underframes, Youngstown doors, etc., etc., all the myriad types of
ends, doors, etc. which are talked about/used in the various car
constructions?

I mean a book which describes these various components without
necessarily going into specific cars themselves?

I know that this info can be gleaned "piece-meal" from the multitude
of
construction articles and books, but I think it would be an excellent
quick-reference to these components.

Thanks, Paul Hillman


James Eckman
 

Posted by: "jerryglow2" As Richard already commented, there isn't but Carbuilders Cyclopedias
contain builders plugs on their own equipment plus a section on parts
details. Not all inclusive nor that readily available.
Jerry Glow
Certainly true for post 1906, I wonder if we can get the current publisher to allow Google to put it up on the web like the earlier editions?

Jim


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul Hillman wrote:

Is there a book which has attempted to contain all of the various freight car component descriptions, such as Murphy roofs, Duryea underframes, Youngstown doors, etc., etc., all the myriad types of ends, doors, etc. which are talked about/used in the various car constructions?
Not in the sense you mean; but the "bible" on this topic is the Cyclopedia series. They contain a great deal of what you want.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Didn't MR have an article about a year ago in which they showed photos
of the more common freight car ends, roofs, etc.?

regards,
Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
jerryglow2
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 7:07 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Parts

As Richard already commented, there isn't but Carbuilders Cyclopedias
contain builders plugs on their own equipment plus a section on parts
details. Not all inclusive nor that readily available.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Paul & Bernice Hillman"
<chris_hillman@...> wrote:

Is there a book which has attempted to contain all of the various
freight car component descriptions, such as Murphy roofs, Duryea
underframes, Youngstown doors, etc., etc., all the myriad types of
ends, doors, etc. which are talked about/used in the various car
constructions?

I mean a book which describes these various components without
necessarily going into specific cars themselves?

I know that this info can be gleaned "piece-meal" from the multitude
of
construction articles and books, but I think it would be an excellent
quick-reference to these components.

Thanks, Paul Hillman




Yahoo! Groups Links


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Andy Miller asked:
"Didn't MR have an article about a year ago in which they showed
photos of the more common freight car ends, roofs, etc.?"

Tony Koester, "Modeler's guide to steel boxcars", Model Railroader,
May 2006, page 58.
http://index.mrmag.com


Ben Hom


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Miller asked:
Didn't MR have an article about a year ago in which they showed photos of the more common freight car ends, roofs, etc.?
Yes, and it was a good article, but really quite brief compared to what I believe the original questioner envisions.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

Paul Hillman wrote:

Is there a book which has attempted to contain all of the various
freight car component descriptions, such as Murphy roofs, Duryea
underframes, Youngstown doors, etc., etc., all the myriad types of
ends, doors, etc. which are talked about/used in the various car
constructions?
Sounds like a great "project" for a future issue of either RP Cyclopedia or Prototype Railroad Modeling Journal!
I think this would become an indispensable reference. Publishers... are you listening?


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


Ed Hawkins
 

On Jul 23, 2007, at 12:24 PM, Richard Brennan wrote:

Sounds like a great "project" for a future issue of either RP
Cyclopedia or Prototype Railroad Modeling Journal!
I think this would become an indispensable reference. Publishers...
are you listening?
Richard,
Yes, the publishers are listening. However, I will volunteer some
information about Volume 10 of RP CYC that unquestionably contained the
very best source of hand brake information ever assembled in one place
(59 pages of comprehensive material authored by Pat Wider). Yet this
book has been our poorest seller out of 15 books published to date.
EVERY freight car placed in interchange service had a hand brake and
it's an item that applies across the board, but a lot of people that
normally buy RP CYC didn't purchase this book. The "hard-core" freight
car enthusiasts liked it (i.e., probably many from the STMFC), but it's
apparent that the 59 pages of hand brakes didn't justify the purchase
of the book by others who are less interested in this level of detail.
Would the same hold true for other comprehensive articles on freight
car components such as running boards, ends, and box car doors?

These questions always stick in our minds when we make decisions on the
content of future books. Researching and publishing the information is
one thing. Selling books with subject matter that's of interest to
enough people that will yield a decent monetary reward for the effort
involved is yet another.

It's important to keep in perspective that people in the STMFC are
relatively few in number when considering the audience that may
purchase a book having subject matter of this type. It's sorta like a
TV show that received great honor from constituents within the TV
broadcast community for its technical merits and important message to
society, but was canceled due to lousy ratings from viewers.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Paul Hillman
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:
********************************************************************
Richard,

Yes,the publishers are listening. However,I will volunteer some
information about Volume 10 of RP CYC that unquestionably contained the
very best source of hand brake information ever assembled in one place
(59 pages of comprehensive material authored by Pat Wider). Yet this
book has been our poorest seller out of 15 books published to date.
*********************************************************************

Hi Ed,

I originally asked this question to the group about such a book, and I
would have hoped that such a comprehensive book WOULD contain a section
on handbrakes.

I think that, however, the subject of handbrakes alone yields much less
interest than the more major car-parts such as roofs, ends, doors,
underframes, trucks, etc. Yet handbrakes are also a major-proto detail.

It could be suggested that "booklets" be produced that cover each car-
part; IE) one for doors, one for roofs, etc., etc. But an all
encompassing publication should attract more buyers who would find the
perhaps "lesser details" an added bonus to a more extensive publication.

In fact, this was my original realization, that all/many of these
detail-facts can be procured through the accumulation by one's self, of
multiple articles and publications, but not in one book.

If there were however, "booklets" for each component, I myself might
abstain from purchasing some of them until I thought I might need them.
Yet I WOULD purchase such a "complete" book and get the "bonus" of all
the other details as well. (Perhaps some of which I hadn't even thought
about.)

I think that there would be a good market for such a complete book as
per this suggestion. In the case that one is in the making, someone put
me down on the list of buyers.

Thanks, Paul Hillman


Schuyler Larrabee
 

I was thinking about the comments regarding copyrights on the Cyc pages, and how we'd need to get
permissions to use those pages. Why do we need those? Certainly there are sufficient photographs
among the collections of photographs available to this group to provide illustrations (with a credit
line if desired) to very amply illustrate a Wiki page as Tim O'Connor suggested. In fact, there was
a remark that the same old illustrations appeared for decades in the Cycs, which did not refliect
the evolution of the product(s). Carefully selected photos could provide exactly that documentation
of the evolving product. To assist those who need the Original Source, the year and page can be
cited as a source of the base information, but nothing from that page need be copied.


Ummm, no, I'm not volunteering to do this . . .

SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!


Didn't MR have an article about a year ago in which they showed photos
of the more common freight car ends, roofs, etc.?

regards,
Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: jerryglow2

As Richard already commented, there isn't but Carbuilders Cyclopedias
contain builders plugs on their own equipment plus a section on parts
details. Not all inclusive nor that readily available.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
, "Paul & Bernice Hillman"
<chris_hillman@...> wrote:

Is there a book which has attempted to contain all of the various
freight car component descriptions, such as Murphy roofs, Duryea
underframes, Youngstown doors, etc., etc., all the myriad types of
ends, doors, etc. which are talked about/used in the various car
constructions?

I mean a book which describes these various components without
necessarily going into specific cars themselves?

I know that this info can be gleaned "piece-meal" from the
multitude
of
construction articles and books, but I think it would be an
excellent

quick-reference to these components.

Thanks, Paul Hillman


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

I was thinking about the comments regarding copyrights on the Cyc
pages, and how we'd need to get
permissions to use those pages. Why do we need those? Certainly
there are sufficient photographs
among the collections of photographs available to this group to
provide illustrations (with a credit
line if desired) to very amply illustrate a Wiki page as Tim
O'Connor suggested.

SGL,

Because most of the illustrations in the old CBC's are technical
illustrations, or drawings, some even with (gasp) dimensions. Photos
are OK if you are just trying to identify a part on an existing model,
but people can pretty much do that by just asking here. Now, if one
were to actually build something, drawings are nice to have...

A lot of what people are asking for was available for years in the
Train Shed Cyclopedia series published in the seventies by Newton K.
Gregg (I know, the early efforts were mostly the picture pages, but
the five part reprints of material from the 1925 and 1943 CBCs had a
lot of good material). The last of the Train Shed stuff languished in
the Walthers catalog for years before they finally liquidated it out.

One of the problems that this discussion points out is that there are
several different markets for this material. There are some who just
want a broad overview, and there have been various truck, door, and
end articles in the model press over the years that should suffice,
although they are not all in the same place. Some people would find
all that they need in a personal library of CBCs, but don't like
spending the cost of a couple Chinese steamers to obtain it. The
material in the Pat Wider article that Ed published in the RPC goes
far beyond what is found in the CBC, delving into period
manufacturer's literature, I'm sure (and no, I haven't purchased a
copy, either :-( But many in the other markets seem to object to
paying for 59 pages of obscure material, as Ed has noted. Lessee,
that's 59 pages of hand brakes, and another ten of retainer valves,
another forty of ladder and hand hold products... at least a hundred
for roofs in all their variations... we're quickly heading for a
thousand page volume like the CBCs, and the page count far exceeds the
potential market.

A much better plan might be to obtain the reproduction rights to some
of the manufacturer's catalogs that reside in museum archives and
libraries around the country, and just issue limited run reprints, as
has been done for years with steam builder and logging equipment catalogs.

No, it wouldn't be "one stop shopping" for the answer to every
question, but it would add immensely to the general knowledge level of
prototype modelers, while still keeping the excitement in the research.

Dennis


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
I was thinking about the comments regarding copyrights on the Cyc pages, and how we'd need to get permissions to use those pages. Why do we need those? Certainly there are sufficient photographs among the collections of photographs available to this group to provide illustrations (with a credit line if desired) to very amply illustrate a Wiki page as Tim O'Connor suggested.
First, under the old law the entire publication WAS copyrighted by the publisher (anything later than 1922). And of course many images are elsewhere, such as the National Archives of Canada, but those require permission too, Schuyler. A "credit line" is not a substitute for permission, and that someone has something "in their collection" does not imply ownership of copyright.
That said, I have found the folks at Simmons-Boardman, the Cyc's publisher, to be most accommodating, provided it is "old material," which for them means early than 1980. Why not ask for permission from them?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
A much better plan might be to obtain the reproduction rights to some of the manufacturer's catalogs that reside in museum archives and libraries around the country, and just issue limited run reprints, as has been done for years with steam builder and logging equipment catalogs.
This is an excellent suggestion, Dennis, and would be beneficial to those of us who are willing to wade through minutiae and discover the patterns of history. But I would bet that for most people, so nearly primary a source would be more frustrating than illuminating. That's why people write books which collect, organize and structure the information.
That of course doesn't solve the danger of the multi-thousand page "complete" book, but there MUST be a compromise in here somewhere. (Like the story of the kid looking through the pile of manure, saying "there must be a pony in here somewhere.") Again, that's the job of the author of such a book: make the compromises to be reasonably complete, yet reasonably brief. Actually, there's a word which means that exactly: succinct.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Charlie Vlk
 

As valuable as they are for source material, the Train Shed Cyclopedias were pretty much straight reprints of
the original material.... with a lot of duplication. As I understand it some drawings have appeared in the trade
press that were preliminary or of designs that were not built, so some expert editing would be helpful before
endorsing the material to the modeling public (and especially to manufacturers who have lifted such drawings
and converted them to production models).
An example I have just been working with is (sorry for the off-subject venture but it illustrates my point) is
Mr. Hawkin's RPC coverage of EMD F2-F3 units. Much of the information therein is covered elsewhere (online
EMD order/serial number listings, EMD "Locomotive Reference Data" publications, railroad rosters, etc..) but
the organization, presentation and explanitory text make it accessible and useful for modeling.
For freight cars this has been started in the RPC for Trucks and Brake Wheels. Maybe the full range of component
parts is too esoteric for a commercial book (a whole chapter on Clevis Pins???), but perhaps an online Cyclopedia is the answer.
Charlie Vlk


Charlie Vlk
 

Ed-
Might there be some other factors that made Vol 10 sales poor?? Timing, promotion, distribution???
Seems to me that the balance of the issue was pretty good.... and I guess I don't understand how
"hard-core" people would pass it up. The Tank Car, Phosphate Covered Hopper and LCL Container articles were all worthy subjects.
The RPCs issues are part of a series.... to not buy one issue and have a hole in the bookshelf??? No way!!!
As previously discussed, there may be a limit to how much data could be presented on some components.... especially internal draft gear parts and other
items that are not likely to be modeled.... but the Hand Brakes article is a valuable reference that anybody modeling freight cars needs...maybe not today,
but someday it will answer a question or solve a problem and will be worth the space devoted to it in that volume.
By the way, when will the EMD F Unit series be continued, and how about EMD E units and other series??? Maybe a locomotive and a passenger car
article is a key to attracting sales for each issue???
Charlie Vlk



but a lot of people that
normally buy RP CYC didn't purchase this book. The "hard-core" freight
car enthusiasts liked it (i.e., probably many from the STMFC), but it's
apparent that the 59 pages of hand brakes didn't justify the purchase
of the book by others who are less interested in this level of detail.

.


Frank Pearsall
 

Good afternoon:

Some of the old Train Shed Cyclopedias are still available from;

www.railroadtreasures.com

A number of years back the lady at Railroad Treasures (Tennessee) bought up the remaining inventory from Newton Gregg's brother, Charles. Her prices are a little high on some of them.

I have a complete set of them that I bought at Bobe's Hobby House, Pensacola, Fla., in the early 1970s. I still find them to be useful references, even in narrow gauge modeling.

Frank A. Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.

On Jul 24, 2007, at 12:12 AM, Dennis Storzek wrote:

A lot of what people are asking for was available for years in the Train Shed Cyclopedia series published in the seventies by Newton K. Gregg (I know, the early efforts were mostly the picture pages, but the five part reprints of material from the 1925 and 1943 CBCs had a lot of good material). The last of the Train Shed stuff languished in the Walthers catalog for years before they finally liquidated it out.


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
I was thinking about the comments regarding copyrights on the Cyc
pages, and how we'd need to get permissions to use those pages. Why
do we need those? Certainly there are sufficient photographs among
the collections of photographs available to this group to provide
illustrations (with a credit line if desired) to very amply
illustrate
a Wiki page as Tim O'Connor suggested.
First, under the old law the entire publication WAS copyrighted
by the publisher (anything later than 1922). And of course
many images
are elsewhere, such as the National Archives of Canada, but those
require permission too, Schuyler. A "credit line" is not a substitute
for permission, and that someone has something "in their collection"
does not imply ownership of copyright.
That said, I have found the folks at Simmons-Boardman, the
Cyc's publisher, to be most accommodating, provided it is "old
material," which for them means early than 1980. Why not ask for
permission from them?

Tony Thompson
OK, I've not read all the replies yet, but you and to a degree Dennis have misinterpreted what I
suggested. What I was getting at is illustrating a Wiki with Original Material created by members
of this group, and NOT using anything from the Cycs. Dennis has a point about the drawings, but for
many people, we just want to know what the thing looked like. For me (and others, I'm sure) a
valuable addition would be what manufacturer(s) make a part "just like this."

There is NO doubt that having the original illustrations would be very useful. But even then, I'd
suggest that in-use photos would be helpful, and as I said before, could illustrate the evolutionary
versions of the products that did NOT get illustrated in the Cycs.

Clearly, a graphic which came from a Cyc, and someone has in their collection, could not be just
slid by with a "From the Collection of Anthony Thompson" if its original gestation was in a Cyc.
But if, say, Tim O'Connor supplied a photo, it could have "Tim O'Connor Photograph" presuming that
it's a photo that Tim himself took. Or I could supply the photos of the PRR X31 that were published
in the last issue of RPC, with a "Collection of Schuyler Larrabee" credit line. Those photos
probably were taken after 1922, but I do not fear the wrath of the photographer.

Simmons-Boardman is indeed cooperative, having issued the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society blanket
permission to reproduce anything at all that we wish to use to tell the ERIE/DL&W/EL story. It took
a phone call followed up with a confirmatory letter.

SGL


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Or I could supply the photos of the PRR X31 that were published in the last issue of RPC, with a "Collection of Schuyler Larrabee" credit line. Those photos probably were taken after 1922, but I do not fear the wrath of the photographer.
Instead of worrying about "wrath," Schuyler, how about worrying about fairness? how about intellectual honesty? I still remember a John Nehrich article with photos from many well-known photographers (Will Whittaker and others), all listed as "John Nehrich collection." Sorry, for my dollar that's just fat-headed.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history