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Hauling Grapes By Rail (redux)
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Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
At 09:56 3/19/2007, Bob Chaparro wrote:
[edited - RB] I found the image below on CalisphereIn the March discussion... the early steel-framed flat car on the left in the photo was not identified. My initial thoughts: - the Turlock "depot" is on the SP line down the Central Valley... the Santa Fe is a few miles east, and the Tidewater Southern to the West. - showing five digits: 78947 This would seem to be a complete number - circa-1905 most cars were max 5 digits... BUT - the number does not seem to fit SP or T&NO car numbering? - has a stenciled sign on the sides says: THIS CAR IS * * * GRAPE SERVICE MOVE ONLY ?? ??????? (perhaps "to somewhere" or "in evening"?) Given the commodity shipped, and the open car... IMHO this would imply a relatively local destination. Are there any ideas? -------------------- Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA -------------------- |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Richard Brennan wrote:
Richard, you need to study my volume on flat cars, Vol. 3 <g>. The car is a CS-35A design of SP, one of 500 built in 1903 by Pressed Steel Car, series 78900-79499. The other identifiable cars also look like SP/CP cars.I found the image below on CalisphereIn the March discussion... Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Jul 26, 2007, at 2:48 PM, Richard Brennan wrote:
the early steel-framed flat car on the left in the photo was notRichard, Tony Thompson can probably respond in more detail, but the two flat cars were definitely Harriman Standard cars, the nearest one an F-50-1 through F-50-3 with pressed steel shallow fishbelly side and center sills and the car beyond it an F-50-4 with Bettendorf underframe. Which means that the photo is incorrectly dated, as the first of the F-50-4s weren't delivered until 1910. I can't explain the car number, but it's close to a number series assigned to F-50-2s: 78410-78499. And its possible, of course, that the SP may have renumbered some cars when they were equipped with sideboards to function as gondolas, though in other cases that doesn't seem to have been SP practice. And certainly those grapes must have been going to a local destination, as a trip of any length would have reduced them to unusable mush. At that time, a lot of freight was shipped by rail only a short distance, since the only alternative in most cases was horses and wagons. Richard Hendrickson |
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Dave Owens
On 7/26/07, Richard Brennan <brennan8@...> wrote:
At 09:56 3/19/2007, Bob Chaparro wrote:Here in Connecticut grapes were a popular commodity and would arrive by rail. The historical society in Torrington, Connecticut has accounts of grape-laden rail cars arriving in town with the entire load being sold quickly. Grape car arrivals were especially popular during prohibition, when the grapes would be made into wine. Here's part of a story I wrote back in 1994 about the wine-making business in Northwest Connecticut. It includes the information about rail cars of grapes arriving in Torrington. FRUIT OF THE VINE THE WINEMAKING INDUSTRY IS BUBBLING UP ANEW IN THE NORTHWEST CORNER LITCHFIELD -- The Haight Vineyard is part of a relatively new business in Connecticut with some long-neglected roots -- winemaking. The state actually had a thriving wine industry in the early part of this century, but the adoption of the 18th Amendment in 1919 dried up the trade. Although Prohibition was repealed in 1933, the business remained dormant for many years. Not until 1978 was producing wine for retail sale again made legal in Connecticut. It wasn't until the 1970s that growing grapes suitable for wine, using European-style grapes, became possible in New England, about a decade or so after the industry took hold in New York state. Despite temperance efforts, and difficulties in climate and cultivation, a tradition of winemaking has continued in the Northwest Corner for decades. That tradition includes both legal and illegal production. Mark McEachern, the director of the Torrington Historical Society, said during the early part of the century dozens of railroad cars, loaded with grapes, were hauled to Torrington and placed on sidings. Locals would buy grapes right off the cars and then make them into juice, jelly and wine. The Jan. 17, 1920, Torrington Register reported that ``No jubilation or outward demonstration of sorrow attended the arrival of prohibition in Torrington last night.'' They may not have been happy, but ``they weren't sad either,'' McEachern said. ``Probably because they were stocked up.'' During Prohibition the number of grape cars hauled to Torrington increased significantly, he added. On Sept. 7, 1926, The Register reported that ``10 car loads of grapes arrived in the freight yard today.'' The freight yard was on the north side of Church Street, where the Timex warehouse now stands. There were 20 tons of grapes per car, and 30 carloads had already arrived in town by Sept. 7. Another 100 were expected by the end of the picking season, the Register reported. ``It looks as though there is going to be a lot of grape jelly consumed in Torrington during the coming winter -- maybe,'' the Register noted. On Sept. 9, 1926, one man heading away from the yard with four tons of grapes told a Register reporter: ``My family will eat them.'' By Sept. 13, 1926, demand had grown. ``It is now estimated that 125 car loads of grapes will come here,'' the Register reported. ``This will produce eight gallons of wine for every man, woman and child in Torrington. ``At $4 a gallon, it represents a value of $750,000. This wine is in addition to the normal production of hooch, hard cider and beer. So it does not look as though anybody in Torrington will go thirsty, in spite of Prohibition.'' These days, locals needn't crush grapes, ferment and bottle their own wine to get a taste of area viticulture. They can just go to local package stores or the Haight Vineyard off Chestnut Hill Road. Snip Dave Owens West Hartford, Connecticut |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Richard, Tony Thompson can probably respond in more detail, but the two flat cars were definitely Harriman Standard cars, the nearest one an F-50-1 through F-50-3 with pressed steel shallow fishbelly side and center sills and the car beyond it an F-50-4 with Bettendorf underframe. Which means that the photo is incorrectly dated, as the first of the F-50-4s weren't delivered until 1910. I can't explain the car number, but it's close to a number series assigned to F-50-2s: 78410-78499. And its possible, of course, that the SP may have renumbered some cars when they were equipped with sideboards to function as gondolas, though in other cases that doesn't seem to have been SP practice.I won't deal with the factual parts already posted (though I made a typo in giving class size; it was 600 cars). The farther flat might be a Class F-50-4, but might also be a later car, as there were succeeding classes very similar in appearance. Thus I would say the photo may be considerably later than 1905, though the combination car in the distance would likely make the date no more than 1920. And no, in the post-1905 or so era, SP did not renumber flat cars with side boards, though they (and CP) certainly did during the 1890s; when such cars were assigned to coal service, they got 53,000 series numbers (if 30 ton) or 54,000 series numbers (mostly 40 ton). Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
Tony... (and also Richard H)
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Thanks for the guidance. This is definitely SP... and I now know where to look! I have a special fondness for this photo... My father was born on what he called a "raisin vineyard" in the Central Valley (as differentiated from those growing table or wine grapes), and I spent a summer working at Del Monte Cannery #3 in San Jose, dumping white grapes from lugs into the fruit cocktail line. (NB: I -still- don't eat fruit cocktail...!). There are some good steam-era Sanborn clips of the CalPack #3 plant, including the SP trackage at: <http://www.historysanjose.org/cannerylife/through-the-years/1917-1966/cal-pak/plant-number-3.html> -------------------- Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA -------------------- At 17:59 7/26/2007, Anthony Thompson wrote:
Richard Brennan wrote:Richard, you need to study my volume on flat cars, Vol. 3 <g>.I found the image below on CalisphereIn the March discussion... |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
David Owens wrote:
Here in Connecticut grapes were a popular commodity and would arrive by rail. The historical society in Torrington, Connecticut has accounts of grape-laden rail cars arriving in town with the entire load being sold quickly. Grape car arrivals were especially popular during prohibition, when the grapes would be made into wine.This is certainly true about the rapid sale of lugs of wine grapes, right out of the reefers. There is some discussion of the Prohibition-era grape shipping in the PFE book. It's been said that the sale of grapes for wine-making (a family was allowed to make up to 250 gallons per year for their own use) was actually more profitable for California wineries than had been the making of wine--though that was before the premium wine business was of any magnitude in California. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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