accupaint primer


radius158
 

Has anyone had any experience with Accupaint primer..or other accupaint
colors?

ie does it need to be thinned?

Any other thinner rather than expensive accupaint thinner?

thanks Doug Gardner


jerryglow2
 

I have used several of their colors although not the primer and did use
their thinner. There dosen't appear to be an alternative but the
results were worth it.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "radius158" <gard158@...> wrote:

Has anyone had any experience with Accupaint primer..or other
accupaint
colors?

ie does it need to be thinned?

Any other thinner rather than expensive accupaint thinner?

thanks Doug Gardner


Schuyler Larrabee
 

While I don't get along with Accupaint, the few experiments I did with it on brass convinced me that
the primer is very much required on brass. And I think it's a very thick paint. But then, I'm not
working from a large base of experience. The times I've tried it (few) on brass w/o the primer, the
paint would just scrape right off with your fingernail, much less any sort of sharpish edge.


SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of radius158
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] accupaint primer

Has anyone had any experience with Accupaint primer..or other
accupaint
colors?

ie does it need to be thinned?

Any other thinner rather than expensive accupaint thinner?

thanks Doug Gardner





pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

I've used Accupaint some and have success using acetone as a thinner.
I've been told that it's more of an ink than a paint so it matches the
colours in the Accucal decal line. I've not used it on brass so can't
comment on it's durability in that regard but on styrene it worked fine.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "radius158" <gard158@...> wrote:

Has anyone had any experience with Accupaint primer..or other accupaint
colors?

ie does it need to be thinned?

Any other thinner rather than expensive accupaint thinner?

thanks Doug Gardner


Marcelo Lordeiro <mrcustom@...>
 

Hi Doug,

I use Accupaint colors , never used their primer.

I use ACRYLIC thinner for the Accupaint , works perfectly.

You have to test on the plastic you are going to paint first.

In the case of a box car , test inside.

Once you have a primer first , no problem.

My preffered primer for resin kits is the Floquil zinc chromate primer mixed with Crystal Cote , Retarder and Diosol.

Let me say that this mixture works fine here where we have a humidity of 80% and 100 ยบ F plus at summer time.
So I have to play with the ammount of each part during the year.

Marcelo Lordeiro

----- Original Message -----
From: radius158
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 12:05 AM
Subject: [STMFC] accupaint primer


Has anyone had any experience with Accupaint primer..or other accupaint
colors?

ie does it need to be thinned?

Any other thinner rather than expensive accupaint thinner?

thanks Doug Gardner






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jerryglow2
 

Some have reported that same problem on other than brass, esp resin
kits. I got into the habit of beadblasting styrene and resin models
prior to painting although I suspect priming would be highly
recommended on brass. As for "handeling" I have had much more
predictable and controlled results with it than the water based
paints. But as usual, your milage may vary....

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

While I don't get along with Accupaint, the few experiments I did
with it on brass convinced me that
the primer is very much required on brass. And I think it's a very
thick paint. But then, I'm not
working from a large base of experience. The times I've tried it
(few) on brass w/o the primer, the
paint would just scrape right off with your fingernail, much less
any sort of sharpish edge.


SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!


Greg Martin
 

Oh MY GOSH...



I would not use any synthetic thinner on ACCUPAINT least of all Acetone (dangerous stuff). From past conversations with Greg Conrad regarding his product it was a very pure form of Acrylic. Jim Six once boasted of using lacquer thinner with this paint and I had a conversation with Greg regarding Jim's statements and he stated that it SHOULD never have done anything but conjeal. We have had the discussion regarding using something other than manufacturers thinners wiuth paints and I have always believed, Why reinvent the wheel??

One recommendation he displayed at the 1994 NMRA convention in Portland was to paint the item and use a hairdrier to "shrink" the finish and it does shrink to fit. SAWEET paint if you could keep the shelf life (I converted mine from plastic bottles to glass) long enough to use it up.



I have had very good results in the past with this now not available paint using distilled water and a couple of drops of Ammonia (which slows the dry time), but that was before they made a specific thinner. I always used a double action Badger airbrush for Acrylics.



Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 4:10 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: accupaint primer







I've used Accupaint some and have success using acetone as a thinner.
I've been told that it's more of an ink than a paint so it matches the
colours in the Accucal decal line. I've not used it on brass so can't
comment on it's durability in that regard but on styrene it worked fine.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "radius158" <gard158@...> wrote:

Has anyone had any experience with Accupaint primer..or other accupaint
colors?

ie does it need to be thinned?

Any other thinner rather than expensive accupaint thinner?

thanks Doug Gardner




________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


radius158
 

Do you thin it?

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:


Oh MY GOSH...



I would not use any synthetic thinner on ACCUPAINT least of all
Acetone (dangerous stuff). From past conversations with Greg Conrad
regarding his product it was a very pure form of Acrylic. Jim Six
once boasted of using lacquer thinner with this paint and I had a
conversation with Greg regarding Jim's statements and he stated that
it SHOULD never have done anything but conjeal. We have had the
discussion regarding using something other than manufacturers
thinners wiuth paints and I have always believed, Why reinvent the
wheel??

One recommendation he displayed at the 1994 NMRA convention in
Portland was to paint the item and use a hairdrier to "shrink" the
finish and it does shrink to fit. SAWEET paint if you could keep the
shelf life (I converted mine from plastic bottles to glass) long
enough to use it up.



I have had very good results in the past with this now not
available paint using distilled water and a couple of drops of
Ammonia (which slows the dry time), but that was before they made a
specific thinner. I always used a double action Badger airbrush for
Acrylics.



Greg Martin


-----Original Message-----
From: pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 4:10 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: accupaint primer







I've used Accupaint some and have success using acetone as a
thinner.
I've been told that it's more of an ink than a paint so it matches
the
colours in the Accucal decal line. I've not used it on brass so
can't
comment on it's durability in that regard but on styrene it worked
fine.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "radius158" <gard158@> wrote:

Has anyone had any experience with Accupaint primer..or other
accupaint
colors?

ie does it need to be thinned?

Any other thinner rather than expensive accupaint thinner?

thanks Doug Gardner




______________________________________________________________________
__
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.




radius158
 

Since accu-paint ia apparently pre thinned, what need is there for
thinner except for cleaning the airbrush ? Doug Gardner

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:


Oh MY GOSH...



I would not use any synthetic thinner on ACCUPAINT least of all
Acetone (dangerous stuff). From past conversations with Greg Conrad
regarding his product it was a very pure form of Acrylic. Jim Six
once boasted of using lacquer thinner with this paint and I had a
conversation with Greg regarding Jim's statements and he stated that
it SHOULD never have done anything but conjeal. We have had the
discussion regarding using something other than manufacturers
thinners wiuth paints and I have always believed, Why reinvent the
wheel??

One recommendation he displayed at the 1994 NMRA convention in
Portland was to paint the item and use a hairdrier to "shrink" the
finish and it does shrink to fit. SAWEET paint if you could keep the
shelf life (I converted mine from plastic bottles to glass) long
enough to use it up.



I have had very good results in the past with this now not
available paint using distilled water and a couple of drops of
Ammonia (which slows the dry time), but that was before they made a
specific thinner. I always used a double action Badger airbrush for
Acrylics.



Greg Martin


-----Original Message-----
From: pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 4:10 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: accupaint primer







I've used Accupaint some and have success using acetone as a
thinner.
I've been told that it's more of an ink than a paint so it matches
the
colours in the Accucal decal line. I've not used it on brass so
can't
comment on it's durability in that regard but on styrene it worked
fine.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "radius158" <gard158@> wrote:

Has anyone had any experience with Accupaint primer..or other
accupaint
colors?

ie does it need to be thinned?

Any other thinner rather than expensive accupaint thinner?

thanks Doug Gardner




______________________________________________________________________
__
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Who is Greg Conrad? Accupaint is not an acrylic paint, it's a printing ink.
Greg Martin's advice sounds good for most acrylic paints, but not AP.

AP can be diluted with lacquer thinner, but why would you want to? I suppose
if you wanted to slow down the evaporation of the thinner, so it had more
time to attack the styrene model, then by all means use lacquer thinner.

Accupaint's own thinner is highly volatile and evaporates in a few minutes,
which is why the stuff dries so fast. Acetone is not terribly aggressive and
it's no worse than Accupaint's own formula of MEK, alcohols, and acetone,
but I think using Acetone alone the paint may not flow as well and may not
dry as fast. Accupaint and Star paints are highly water-absorbent -- so if
you spray in a humid climate or a dry climate, the results may differ quite
a bit. The MEK by the way helps Accupaint to adhere strongly to styrene,
which is why it is so wonderful for styrene. It can be sprayed directly on
brass, but it's not going to stay there if the model is handled. It's needs a
primer on brass, and I use a primer on resin too when using Accupaint.
(Otherwise I've had variable results with resin.)

And yes, Star and Accupaint are the same product, from different vendors.
I'm sure that's been mentioned one or two hundred times here...

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: tgregmrtn@...

Oh MY GOSH...



I would not use any synthetic thinner on ACCUPAINT least of all Acetone
(dangerous stuff). From past conversations with Greg Conrad regarding his
product it was a very pure form of Acrylic. Jim Six once boasted of using
lacquer thinner with this paint and I had a conversation with Greg regarding
Jim's statements and he stated that it SHOULD never have done anything but
conjeal. We have had the discussion regarding using something other than
manufacturers thinners wiuth paints and I have always believed, Why reinvent the
wheel??

One recommendation he displayed at the 1994 NMRA convention in Portland was to
paint the item and use a hairdrier to "shrink" the finish and it does shrink to
fit. SAWEET paint if you could keep the shelf life (I converted mine from
plastic bottles to glass) long enough to use it up.



I have had very good results in the past with this now not available paint using
distilled water and a couple of drops of Ammonia (which slows the dry time), but
that was before they made a specific thinner. I always used a double action
Badger airbrush for Acrylics.



Greg Martin


-----Original Message-----
From: pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 4:10 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: accupaint primer


I've used Accupaint some and have success using acetone as a thinner.
I've been told that it's more of an ink than a paint so it matches the
colours in the Accucal decal line. I've not used it on brass so can't
comment on it's durability in that regard but on styrene it worked fine.
Pierre Oliver


Tim O'Connor
 

The old bottles were not airtight. So over time (years) the thinner
in the bottle evaporates. Adding new thinner will revive the "paint".

Also, I have a large jar of Accupaint thinner for stripping. Many old
Front Range and McKean models were painted with this same stuff.
They can be incredibly hard to strip but when I drop them in this the
color just washes off.

In fact we owe Accupaint and Star to Fred Becker, who discovered it
in the first place, and shared the information with George Bishop,
whose Accucals and Accupaint were transformed. Previous to that
time, George used a different vendor -- Floquil -- for his paint.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "radius158" <gard158@...>
Since accu-paint ia apparently pre thinned, what need is there for
thinner except for cleaning the airbrush ? Doug Gardner


rgs0554
 

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:


Oh MY GOSH...



I would not use any synthetic thinner on ACCUPAINT least of all Acetone (dangerous stuff).
Greg Martin
Hi Greg, If you should happen to read the label on a pint of Accupaint thinner you would
learn it contains Acetone, Methylethyl Ketone, Propyl Alcohol, Diacetone Alcohol. It currently
costs $15.95 a pint at Walthers. That's $127.50/gallon! Thats kinda expensive air brush
cleaner. Acetone, a component of AP at $14/gal works fine as an air brush cleaner. Regards,
Don Smith


Ed Hawkins
 

On Jul 27, 2007, at 3:56 PM, timboconnor@... wrote:

Who is Greg Conrad? Accupaint is not an acrylic paint, it's a
printing ink.
Greg Martin's advice sounds good for most acrylic paints, but not AP.
Tim,
The late Greg Konrad was the person behind the original Badger
Accuflex, later Testors Accuflex.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Tim asked:
Who is Greg Conrad? Accupaint is not an acrylic paint, it's a
printing ink. Greg Martin's advice sounds good for most acrylic
paints, but not AP.
He probably means Greg Konrad, of AccuFLEX (not AccuPAINT) fame.
Different paint entirely.

Tom Madden


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 27, 2007, at 2:27 PM, Don Smith rgs0554 wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:
>
> Oh MY GOSH...
>
> I would not use any synthetic thinner on ACCUPAINT least of all
Acetone (dangerous stuff).
Hi Greg, If you should happen to read the label on a pint of
Accupaint thinner you would
learn it contains Acetone, Methylethyl Ketone, Propyl Alcohol,
Diacetone Alcohol. It currently
costs $15.95 a pint at Walthers. That's $127.50/gallon! Thats kinda
expensive air brush
cleaner. Acetone, a component of AP at $14/gal works fine as an air
brush cleaner.

Sure, Don, as an airbrush cleaner. I use acetone or lacquer thinner,
too, for that purpose; it works well on every paint I've ever run
through the airbrush and is readily available at a relatively
reasonable price. But that's a whole different matter from thinning
Accupaint with it (or any other kind of paint, for that matter). The
amount of thinner we use to reduce paint for airbrushing is small, and
using anything but the paint manufacturer's own thinner is just asking
for trouble.

Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Don Smith wrote:
Hi Greg, If you should happen to read the label on a pint of Accupaint thinner you would
learn it contains Acetone, Methylethyl Ketone, Propyl Alcohol, Diacetone Alcohol.
Gosh, did Greg miss another one? <g> And for those occasional non-chemists on the list who want to know, acetone is also known as dimethyl ketone.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Greg Martin
 

Sorry, all I was thinking ACCUFLEX not ACCUPAINT my mistake



Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: radius158 <gard158@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: accupaint primer







Do you thin it?

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:


Oh MY GOSH...



I would not use any synthetic thinner on ACCUPAINT least of all
Acetone (dangerous stuff). From past conversations with Greg Conrad
regarding his product it was a very pure form of Acrylic. Jim Six
once boasted of using lacquer thinner with this paint and I had a
conversation with Greg regarding Jim's statements and he stated that
it SHOULD never have done anything but conjeal. We have had the
discussion regarding using something other than manufacturers
thinners wiuth paints and I have always believed, Why reinvent the
wheel??

One recommendation he displayed at the 1994 NMRA convention in
Portland was to paint the item and use a hairdrier to "shrink" the
finish and it does shrink to fit. SAWEET paint if you could keep the
shelf life (I converted mine from plastic bottles to glass) long
enough to use it up.



I have had very good results in the past with this now not
available paint using distilled water and a couple of drops of
Ammonia (which slows the dry time), but that was before they made a
specific thinner. I always used a double action Badger airbrush for
Acrylics.



Greg Martin


-----Original Message-----
From: pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 4:10 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: accupaint primer







I've used Accupaint some and have success using acetone as a
thinner.
I've been told that it's more of an ink than a paint so it matches
the
colours in the Accucal decal line. I've not used it on brass so
can't
comment on it's durability in that regard but on styrene it worked
fine.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "radius158" <gard158@> wrote:

Has anyone had any experience with Accupaint primer..or other
accupaint
colors?

ie does it need to be thinned?

Any other thinner rather than expensive accupaint thinner?

thanks Doug Gardner




__________________________________________________________
__
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.







________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


rgs0554
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Jul 27, 2007, at 2:27 PM, Don Smith rgs0554 wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@ wrote:
>
> Oh MY GOSH...
>
> I would not use any synthetic thinner on ACCUPAINT least of all
Acetone (dangerous stuff).
Hi Greg, If you should happen to read the label on a pint of
Accupaint thinner you would
learn it contains Acetone, Methylethyl Ketone, Propyl Alcohol,
Diacetone Alcohol. It currently
costs $15.95 a pint at Walthers. That's $127.50/gallon! Thats kinda
expensive air brush
cleaner. Acetone, a component of AP at $14/gal works fine as an air
brush cleaner.

Sure, Don, as an airbrush cleaner. I use acetone or lacquer thinner,
too, for that purpose; it works well on every paint I've ever run
through the airbrush and is readily available at a relatively
reasonable price. But that's a whole different matter from thinning
Accupaint with it (or any other kind of paint, for that matter). The
amount of thinner we use to reduce paint for airbrushing is small, and
using anything but the paint manufacturer's own thinner is just asking
for trouble.

Richard Hendrickson
Hi Richard, I agree; I posted a bit about painting with Accupaint and with PBL Star Brand.
In it I stated that I used Dupont 3696S Acyrilic Lacquer Thinner to thin both Star and
Accupaint. I hope anybody who tries it does not use straight lacquer thinner but instead
uses ACYRILIC lacquer thinner. I too use acetone ONLY for clean up. Regards, Don Smith


Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Greg you are confusing Accupaint with Accuflex. Two different paints.
Accuflex was an acrylic paint created and/or promoted by Greg Konrad. It was
later taken over by Testors/Floquil who killed it when they brought out
their own acrylic line, PollyScale. ModelFlex by Badger is another acrylic
paint, very very similar to Accuflex, but according to Badger it is not
Accuflex. But I believe Badger bought the rights to Accuflex, made a minor
change in the formula to slow down the drying rate.

Last I saw of Greg Konrad, he was trying to bring out the original formula
of AccuFlex under his own name/lable. Didn't go anywhere if I recall.

AccuFlex/ModelFlex is a great paint, I use it almost exclusively. But then I
don't paint diesels, for which Accupaint is often used.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


al_brown03
 

Hi y'all --

Acetone (boiling point 56 Celsius) is lower boiling than MEK (bp 80
C) or alcohols (bp above 100 C mostly). So I'd think acetone alone
would dry *faster* than mixtures with those other things. I dunno
what would flow better: can't speak to that, nor to adherence.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.



--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:


Who is Greg Conrad? Accupaint is not an acrylic paint, it's a
printing ink.
Greg Martin's advice sounds good for most acrylic paints, but not
AP.

AP can be diluted with lacquer thinner, but why would you want to?
I suppose
if you wanted to slow down the evaporation of the thinner, so it
had more
time to attack the styrene model, then by all means use lacquer
thinner.

Accupaint's own thinner is highly volatile and evaporates in a few
minutes,
which is why the stuff dries so fast. Acetone is not terribly
aggressive and
it's no worse than Accupaint's own formula of MEK, alcohols, and
acetone,
but I think using Acetone alone the paint may not flow as well and
may not
dry as fast. Accupaint and Star paints are highly water-absorbent --
so if
you spray in a humid climate or a dry climate, the results may
differ quite
a bit. The MEK by the way helps Accupaint to adhere strongly to
styrene,
which is why it is so wonderful for styrene. It can be sprayed
directly on
brass, but it's not going to stay there if the model is handled.
It's needs a
primer on brass, and I use a primer on resin too when using
Accupaint.
(Otherwise I've had variable results with resin.)

And yes, Star and Accupaint are the same product, from different
vendors.
I'm sure that's been mentioned one or two hundred times here...

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: tgregmrtn@...

Oh MY GOSH...



I would not use any synthetic thinner on ACCUPAINT least of all
Acetone
(dangerous stuff). From past conversations with Greg Conrad
regarding his
product it was a very pure form of Acrylic. Jim Six once boasted
of using
lacquer thinner with this paint and I had a conversation with
Greg regarding
Jim's statements and he stated that it SHOULD never have done
anything but
conjeal. We have had the discussion regarding using something
other than
manufacturers thinners wiuth paints and I have always believed,
Why reinvent the
wheel??

One recommendation he displayed at the 1994 NMRA convention in
Portland was to
paint the item and use a hairdrier to "shrink" the finish and it
does shrink to
fit. SAWEET paint if you could keep the shelf life (I converted
mine from
plastic bottles to glass) long enough to use it up.



I have had very good results in the past with this now not
available paint using
distilled water and a couple of drops of Ammonia (which slows the
dry time), but
that was before they made a specific thinner. I always used a
double action
Badger airbrush for Acrylics.



Greg Martin


-----Original Message-----
From: pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 4:10 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: accupaint primer


I've used Accupaint some and have success using acetone as a
thinner.
I've been told that it's more of an ink than a paint so it
matches the
colours in the Accucal decal line. I've not used it on brass so
can't
comment on it's durability in that regard but on styrene it
worked fine.
Pierre Oliver