Hi guys,
When I was At University in the early nineties I had to write a paper on longevity of different media. My findings from other folks research were:- Unused Micro fiche stored carefully in a dry temperate place was expected to last about 1000 years, the best quality CDs that were truly burnt, not printed (I.e. physically stored, not printed.) were guaranteed by IBM for 20 years but they rather thought they should last 100 years and if you kept 10 copies unused in good conditions at least one should still work perfectly after a 1000 years. Vellum was also very good but the inks used could let things down badly. Why not print the pictures with high quality ink onto high quality paper? I have copies of books that are over 30 years old and the pictures and print haven't deteriorated noticeably. I suspect my machinery for reading these will wear out before the books become unusable despite the fact the books are stored on acid loaded wooden shelves, get touched with bare unwashed hands, breathed on and subjected to normal atmospheres!
Regards Philip Dove

Jim Eckman wrote:

You should take care of prints or CDs or DVDs but as long as you do they will last a long time. Less than 5 years is scary nonsense, I have readable CDs I have burned from 10 years ago.

"Scary nonsense" is BS, Jim. I have some Imation and Fuji disks LESS than five years old which have died: dark blotches of corrosion/oxidation reaching in from the edges. DO NOT fool yourself on the longevity of these things.
I too have disks up to 13 years old which are fine; but I have much younger ones which have failed. It ain't just age, my man.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

You should take care of prints or CDs or DVDs but as long as you do they will last a long time. Less than 5 years is scary nonsense, I have readable CDs I have burned from 10 years ago. See:

http://digitalfaq.com/media/longevity.htm

For more than you probably want to know. If you do backups and do everything on this web page you are unlikely to ever lose any data.

Jim

--- In STMFC@..., blair kooistra <bkooistra@...> wrote:

JP, there's quite a bit of study predicting the stability of

"gold" DVD's. . .some manufacturers go so far as to say "100 year
storage media," which is probably hoakum...

I'll say. If you read the fine print, all they promise is to give you
your three bucks back :-( If. . . they are even still in business.

All archival methods have their drawbacks; the film or negs won't be
worth much after the library burns down. The main advantage of digital
images is that they can be easily replicated and stored in different
places. CD's for home use; a portable hard drive stored in a safety
deposit box; even back-up on the servers of a business records
archiving service, if you wish. That and careful storage of the
originals should keep the images available for eternity, so long as
someone makes sure that when the media becomes obsolete, the material
is transferred to new media. If no one has looked at the material in
that length of time, maybe then there isn't any reason to save it any
longer :-)

I do agree with the thought that the material needs to be scanned at
the maximum possible resolution. If you can see the film grain in the
scanned image, then you know that you haven't lost any data.

Dennis

Papa John Phillips wrote:
"And how long do you figure the CDs you're burning these monsters onto last? R.W. Leach has been kind enough to scan and burn a couple (!) of my prints onto CDs (he makes 'em larger n' you do) and we think _mebbe_ we'll get ten years outta 'em (i.e. "Ugh!")! Seems to me them gold CDs might hold out an extra five, but that's about it. If you've heard somethin' else, lemme know."

JP, there's quite a bit of study predicting the stability of "gold" DVD's. . .some manufacturers go so far as to say "100 year storage media," which is probably hoakum. Regular consumer grade CD/DVD's are a real crapshoot. . .you might get 10 years out of em, might get 2. Much depends upon how you store them (darkness and out of sunlight appears best). A quality Gold DVD costs around $3.00. . .if it'll last five years long with a bit more peace of mind, that seems like a small price to pay.

Personally, I've backed up to gold DVD's, but I also back up to multiple hard-drives. Ideally, I have one of the backup hard drives off property in case of a fire. The DVD's provide redundency in the case of two hard drive failures. Now if three hard drives fail and the house burns down and the DVD's melt. . .well. . .I guess I'll have other things worry about!

blair kooistra

Seems to me them gold CDs might hold out an extra five, but that's about it.<

Does Blue Ray have any better time frame? I know the density is higher.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Phillips, III, J.A. wrote:

And how long do you figure the CDs you're burning these monsters onto last? R.W. Leach has been kind enough to scan and burn a couple (!) of my prints onto CDs (he makes 'em larger n' you do) and we think _mebbe_ we'll get ten years outta 'em (i.e. "Ugh!")! Seems to me them gold CDs might hold out an extra five, but that's about it. If you've heard somethin' else, lemme know.

No one could argue with a five-year replacement rule (though some Imations I had went south in less time than that), but they are cheap and easy to dupe. Keep in mind, sir, that Tim O'Connor's advice is still sound: keep 'em on an external hard disk too. Those aren't "forever" either, but aren't likely to fail at exactly the same time as the CDs or DVDs.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

BEK-

And how long do you figure the CDs you're burning these monsters onto last? R.W. Leach has been kind enough to scan and burn a couple (!) of my prints onto CDs (he makes 'em larger n' you do) and we think _mebbe_ we'll get ten years outta 'em (i.e. "Ugh!")! Seems to me them gold CDs might hold out an extra five, but that's about it. If you've heard somethin' else, lemme know.

FWIW
J. Phillips (watching the UP use the MILW tracks) in Seattle

A prosperous fool is a grievous burden (Aeschylus [525 - 456 B.C.] commenting on Paris Hilton).