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Overland Models Tank Cars
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
I came across an ad for Overland Models from '93 or so showing a number of tank cars:
COLX 1068 "Western Asphalt", insulated 10,000 gal GATX 1929, insulated 10,000 gal SHPX 4035 "Cities Service", insulated 10,000 gal USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly uninsulated GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome Do these match real cars? In particular, what about the Pennzoil car? When was it in service? TIA, KL |
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What do you mean "labeled as uninsulated"? Where is this ad?
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For sure the Western Asphalt and Cities Service cars could be accurate. Don't know about the Army car -- 10287-10859 were 1-dome, 10,000 gallon cars built in 1941 by ACF -- probably best represented by the ACF Type 27. I think Overland imported a Type 27 (#3130) but it was an 8,000 gallon car. 10992-11056 were 1-dome, 10,000 gallon cars built in 1942 by Gen American. I have no information for USAX 10936, but there is a photo of USAX 10993 in the August 1996 Railmodel Journal. The only 3-dome that has a large middle dome and 2 smaller domes is GATX 904, leased to Petri Wine. Kinda hard to figure anything out without pictures of what you are looking at... Tim O'Connor I came across an ad for Overland Models from '93 or so showing a number of tank cars: |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Aug 20, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:
I came across an ad for Overland Models from '93 or so showing aGeneral Warning: Some of the Overland tank car models of that vintage are correct, but many were painted and lettered in bogus paint schemes, often based on photos of vaguely similar cars in various issues of the Car Builders' Cyclopedias Don't trust any of them in the absence of documentary evidence. I know the Western Asphalt car is correct, as I supplied the data on which the model was based. The reporting marks were CDLX, however (California Despatch Line), an error that OL also made in the decals for this model (though it's fairly easy to correct). The model identified as GATX 1929 may be correct for the GATX cars of the late 1920s, but the number is bogus. GATC used to paint and letter demo cars with the year of their construction as the car number, but of course those cars never went into revenue service with those numbers. SHPX leased 10K gal. insulated Type 27s to Cities Service; there's a photo of SHPX 4039 in the 1940 CBC. But I don't know how accurately the model represents this prototype. USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearlyThe cars in this series were standard GATC Type 30 10K gal. ICC-103s. GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated butPhoto of DUPX 2656 in the 1937 CBC. PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center domeThe model represented a GATX car that was in bulk wine service in the late 1960s (I provided the photos and data for that one, too). The larger center dome indicated that the prototype had been converted from a single compartment to a three compartment car and kept its original center dome; GATC had numerous three compartment cars, both insulated and non-insulated, that had been converted in that fashion. But DRX 2148 wasn't a GATC car, it was a car built by the Pressed Steel Car Co. for North American and leased to Deep Rock in the late 1920s and early '30s by North American. There's a photo of DRX 2157 in the 1931 CBC. The Pennzoil model is entirely bogus. Pennzoil operated a sizable fleet of tank cars in the 1920s but, like many private owners, sold its tank cars in favor of leasing cars when the economic bad times of the depression came along, and the PAX cars disappeared from the ORERs ca. 1931. In any case, only four of them were three compartment cars and none of those were insulated. Richard Hendrickson |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
Richard;
Thanks for the info on those cars! I remember you also commenting on the OVL 10k UTLX "X-3" cars, but I don't recall what you found wrong with them (I do remember you said there were some issues). Was it the presence of ladders and platforms on both sides, or was there more to it than that? And, on those GATC 2-dome and 3-dome insulated cars, do you know what number series' they were in in GATX? Lastly, you mentioned that the 8k insulated 105 car was bogus. Is there any way of modifying this car to be something correct, like replacing the valve casing with a dome, or is that just unheard of to do with a brass tank? This is the one with those oddball platforms + a stepped handrail around the valve casing that makes it appear like some kind of auto "lead" car like you found in smaller sizes... Thanks! Elden Gatwood ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Richard Hendrickson Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:47 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Overland Models Tank Cars On Aug 20, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote: I came across an ad for Overland Models from '93 or so showing aGeneral Warning: Some of the Overland tank car models of that vintage are correct, but many were painted and lettered in bogus paint schemes, often based on photos of vaguely similar cars in various issues of the Car Builders' Cyclopedias Don't trust any of them in the absence of documentary evidence. I know the Western Asphalt car is correct, as I supplied the data on which the model was based. The reporting marks were CDLX, however (California Despatch Line), an error that OL also made in the decals for this model (though it's fairly easy to correct). The model identified as GATX 1929 may be correct for the GATX cars of the late 1920s, but the number is bogus. GATC used to paint and letter demo cars with the year of their construction as the car number, but of course those cars never went into revenue service with those numbers. SHPX leased 10K gal. insulated Type 27s to Cities Service; there's a photo of SHPX 4039 in the 1940 CBC. But I don't know how accurately the model represents this prototype. USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearlyThe cars in this series were standard GATC Type 30 10K gal. ICC-103s. GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated butPhoto of DUPX 2656 in the 1937 CBC. PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center domeThe model represented a GATX car that was in bulk wine service in the late 1960s (I provided the photos and data for that one, too). The larger center dome indicated that the prototype had been converted from a single compartment to a three compartment car and kept its original center dome; GATC had numerous three compartment cars, both insulated and non-insulated, that had been converted in that fashion. But DRX 2148 wasn't a GATC car, it was a car built by the Pressed Steel Car Co. for North American and leased to Deep Rock in the late 1920s and early '30s by North American. There's a photo of DRX 2157 in the 1931 CBC. The Pennzoil model is entirely bogus. Pennzoil operated a sizable fleet of tank cars in the 1920s but, like many private owners, sold its tank cars in favor of leasing cars when the economic bad times of the depression came along, and the PAX cars disappeared from the ORERs ca. 1931. In any case, only four of them were three compartment cars and none of those were insulated. Richard Hendrickson |
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Elden... you mentioned that the 8k insulated 105 car was bogus. Although I can't say the 8k ACF "hi-pressure" type car (OMI 3134) represents an actual car, I do have a scan of SACX 687, which is about the same size, leased to PPG Chemicals in the 1960's. So 105's of this type and general appearance did exist. Tim O'Connor |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
SACX 687 was a 6,000 gal. car, as were many other ICC-105s built forElden... you mentioned that the 8k insulated 105 car was bogus. chlorine and similar service. As usual, the absence of evidence proves nothing, but I have a lot of photos and data on these small ICC-105s and I have yet to find any example of an 8,000 gal. car. And believe me, I've looked hard for one, because I also have one of Overland's 8K insulated ICC-105 models. Richard Hendrickson |
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Ed Hawkins
On Aug 21, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
SACX 687 was a 6,000 gal. car, as were many other ICC-105s built forRichard, Does the model have an ACF-style underframe? I went through all the ACF tank car data and can find NO 8,000-gallon ICC-105s were ever built. The closest I can find is an order of 6 cars (PCIX 100-105, lot 2932), which were 7,350 gallons for transporting liquid carbon dioxide. I have all the underframe and tank dimensions if it's worth checking to see if the model could possible be based on this series of cars. Thirteen more 7.350-gallon ICC-105A cars were built in March 1952, PCIX 106-113 and SHPX 3732-3736, as lot 3646B. This is all I can find. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Ed, definitely an ACF style frame. Here are my desktop
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measurements with a pair of calipers as best as I can do. Outside tank diameter 8'0" Tank jacket length 32'7" Tank length 33'10" Frame length at corners 36'1" I wondered why these were so cheap on Ebay... :-) Richard, |
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
Thanks Richard. I thought the Pennzoil car was too good to be true.
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Tim, the ad was on the back cover of a RMJ, '93, I think. I say "labeled" because there is a picture with a caption for each. You can tell that the captions are wrong by looking at the pictures. KL ----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Overland Models Tank Cars On Aug 20, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote: > I came across an ad for Overland Models from '93 or so showing a > number of tank cars: > > COLX 1068 "Western Asphalt", insulated 10,000 gal > GATX 1929, insulated 10,000 gal > SHPX 4035 "Cities Service", insulated 10,000 gal > USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly > uninsulated > GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but > clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform > DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated > 8,000 gal w/platform > PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome > DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome > > Do these match real cars? In particular, what about the Pennzoil car? > When was it in service? General Warning: Some of the Overland tank car models of that vintage are correct, but many were painted and lettered in bogus paint schemes, often based on photos of vaguely similar cars in various issues of the Car Builders' Cyclopedias Don't trust any of them in the absence of documentary evidence. I know the Western Asphalt car is correct, as I supplied the data on which the model was based. The reporting marks were CDLX, however (California Despatch Line), an error that OL also made in the decals for this model (though it's fairly easy to correct). The model identified as GATX 1929 may be correct for the GATX cars of the late 1920s, but the number is bogus. GATC used to paint and letter demo cars with the year of their construction as the car number, but of course those cars never went into revenue service with those numbers. SHPX leased 10K gal. insulated Type 27s to Cities Service; there's a photo of SHPX 4039 in the 1940 CBC. But I don't know how accurately the model represents this prototype. > USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly > uninsulated The cars in this series were standard GATC Type 30 10K gal. ICC-103s. > GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but > clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform > DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated > 8,000 gal w/platform Photo of DUPX 2656 in the 1937 CBC. > PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome > DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome The model represented a GATX car that was in bulk wine service in the late 1960s (I provided the photos and data for that one, too). The larger center dome indicated that the prototype had been converted from a single compartment to a three compartment car and kept its original center dome; GATC had numerous three compartment cars, both insulated and non-insulated, that had been converted in that fashion. But DRX 2148 wasn't a GATC car, it was a car built by the Pressed Steel Car Co. for North American and leased to Deep Rock in the late 1920s and early '30s by North American. There's a photo of DRX 2157 in the 1931 CBC. The Pennzoil model is entirely bogus. Pennzoil operated a sizable fleet of tank cars in the 1920s but, like many private owners, sold its tank cars in favor of leasing cars when the economic bad times of the depression came along, and the PAX cars disappeared from the ORERs ca. 1931. In any case, only four of them were three compartment cars and none of those were insulated. Richard Hendrickson |
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Ed Hawkins
On Aug 21, 2007, at 8:42 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Ed, definitely an ACF style frame. Here are my desktopTim, Following are the dimensions for the 6 PCIX cars in ACF lot 2932. It's obvious that the model isn't based on these prototype cars. No telling what it was based on. Next time I talk to Brian Marsh I'll ask him. Regards, Ed Hawkins Truck centers: 31'-7 1/2" Underframe length (over end sills): 42'-1 5/8" Underframe width: 9'-8" Jacket diameter: 90" (70" tank diameter plus 20" to account for 10" cork insulation surrounding the tank) Tank length: 37'-10 7/8" |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
Thanks, guys!
I bought mine at the Original Whistle Stop many moons ago (actually labeled for Brea Chemicals, which I figured I'd strip), and thought at the time that there must've been a prototype for a car made in brass. Argh. Valve casing-equipped aside, the remainder of the car looks like a lot of other 8k insulated ACF cars. If I was brave.... Thanks again for the feedback! Elden Gatwood ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Richard Hendrickson Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 5:54 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Overland Models Tank Cars On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote: SACX 687 was a 6,000 gal. car, as were many other ICC-105s built forElden... you mentioned that the 8k insulated 105 car was bogus. chlorine and similar service. As usual, the absence of evidence proves nothing, but I have a lot of photos and data on these small ICC-105s and I have yet to find any example of an 8,000 gal. car. And believe me, I've looked hard for one, because I also have one of Overland's 8K insulated ICC-105 models. Richard Hendrickson |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Aug 22, 2007, at 3:49 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Thanks, guys!The models were originally offered undecorated, and they didn't sell very well. So OL painted and lettered a bunch of them, mostly with bogus P/L schemes for which decals were readily available. As for the models themselves, they were designed to get maximum variety out of limited tooling - hence, among other things, an 8K gal. ICC-105 for which there was no prototype. Richard Hendrickson |
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