Overland Models Tank Cars


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

I came across an ad for Overland Models from '93 or so showing a number of tank cars:

COLX 1068 "Western Asphalt", insulated 10,000 gal
GATX 1929, insulated 10,000 gal
SHPX 4035 "Cities Service", insulated 10,000 gal
USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly uninsulated
GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome

Do these match real cars? In particular, what about the Pennzoil car? When was it in service?

TIA,
KL


Tim O'Connor
 

What do you mean "labeled as uninsulated"? Where is this ad?
For sure the Western Asphalt and Cities Service cars could be
accurate. Don't know about the Army car -- 10287-10859 were
1-dome, 10,000 gallon cars built in 1941 by ACF -- probably
best represented by the ACF Type 27. I think Overland imported
a Type 27 (#3130) but it was an 8,000 gallon car. 10992-11056
were 1-dome, 10,000 gallon cars built in 1942 by Gen American.
I have no information for USAX 10936, but there is a photo of
USAX 10993 in the August 1996 Railmodel Journal. The only
3-dome that has a large middle dome and 2 smaller domes is
GATX 904, leased to Petri Wine.

Kinda hard to figure anything out without pictures of what
you are looking at...

Tim O'Connor

I came across an ad for Overland Models from '93 or so showing a number of tank cars:

COLX 1068 "Western Asphalt", insulated 10,000 gal
GATX 1929, insulated 10,000 gal
SHPX 4035 "Cities Service", insulated 10,000 gal
USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly uninsulated
GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome

Do these match real cars? In particular, what about the Pennzoil car? When was it in service?

TIA,
KL


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 20, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

I came across an ad for Overland Models from '93 or so showing a
number of tank cars:

COLX 1068 "Western Asphalt", insulated 10,000 gal
GATX 1929, insulated 10,000 gal
SHPX 4035 "Cities Service", insulated 10,000 gal
USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly
uninsulated
GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but
clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated
8,000 gal w/platform
PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome

Do these match real cars? In particular, what about the Pennzoil car?
When was it in service?
General Warning: Some of the Overland tank car models of that vintage
are correct, but many were painted and lettered in bogus paint schemes,
often based on photos of vaguely similar cars in various issues of the
Car Builders' Cyclopedias Don't trust any of them in the absence of
documentary evidence.

I know the Western Asphalt car is correct, as I supplied the data on
which the model was based. The reporting marks were CDLX, however
(California Despatch Line), an error that OL also made in the decals
for this model (though it's fairly easy to correct).

The model identified as GATX 1929 may be correct for the GATX cars of
the late 1920s, but the number is bogus. GATC used to paint and letter
demo cars with the year of their construction as the car number, but of
course those cars never went into revenue service with those numbers.

SHPX leased 10K gal. insulated Type 27s to Cities Service; there's a
photo of SHPX 4039 in the 1940 CBC. But I don't know how accurately
the model represents this prototype.

USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly
uninsulated
The cars in this series were standard GATC Type 30 10K gal. ICC-103s.

GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but
clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated
8,000 gal w/platform
Photo of DUPX 2656 in the 1937 CBC.

PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
The model represented a GATX car that was in bulk wine service in the
late 1960s (I provided the photos and data for that one, too). The
larger center dome indicated that the prototype had been converted from
a single compartment to a three compartment car and kept its original
center dome; GATC had numerous three compartment cars, both insulated
and non-insulated, that had been converted in that fashion. But DRX
2148 wasn't a GATC car, it was a car built by the Pressed Steel Car Co.
for North American and leased to Deep Rock in the late 1920s and early
'30s by North American. There's a photo of DRX 2157 in the 1931 CBC.
The Pennzoil model is entirely bogus. Pennzoil operated a sizable
fleet of tank cars in the 1920s but, like many private owners, sold its
tank cars in favor of leasing cars when the economic bad times of the
depression came along, and the PAX cars disappeared from the ORERs ca.
1931. In any case, only four of them were three compartment cars and
none of those were insulated.

Richard Hendrickson


Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Richard;



Thanks for the info on those cars!



I remember you also commenting on the OVL 10k UTLX "X-3" cars, but I don't
recall what you found wrong with them (I do remember you said there were some
issues). Was it the presence of ladders and platforms on both sides, or was
there more to it than that?



And, on those GATC 2-dome and 3-dome insulated cars, do you know what number
series' they were in in GATX?



Lastly, you mentioned that the 8k insulated 105 car was bogus. Is there any
way of modifying this car to be something correct, like replacing the valve
casing with a dome, or is that just unheard of to do with a brass tank? This
is the one with those oddball platforms + a stepped handrail around the valve
casing that makes it appear like some kind of auto "lead" car like you found
in smaller sizes...



Thanks!



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:47 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Overland Models Tank Cars



On Aug 20, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

I came across an ad for Overland Models from '93 or so showing a
number of tank cars:

COLX 1068 "Western Asphalt", insulated 10,000 gal
GATX 1929, insulated 10,000 gal
SHPX 4035 "Cities Service", insulated 10,000 gal
USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly
uninsulated
GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but
clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated
8,000 gal w/platform
PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome

Do these match real cars? In particular, what about the Pennzoil car?
When was it in service?
General Warning: Some of the Overland tank car models of that vintage
are correct, but many were painted and lettered in bogus paint schemes,
often based on photos of vaguely similar cars in various issues of the
Car Builders' Cyclopedias Don't trust any of them in the absence of
documentary evidence.

I know the Western Asphalt car is correct, as I supplied the data on
which the model was based. The reporting marks were CDLX, however
(California Despatch Line), an error that OL also made in the decals
for this model (though it's fairly easy to correct).

The model identified as GATX 1929 may be correct for the GATX cars of
the late 1920s, but the number is bogus. GATC used to paint and letter
demo cars with the year of their construction as the car number, but of
course those cars never went into revenue service with those numbers.

SHPX leased 10K gal. insulated Type 27s to Cities Service; there's a
photo of SHPX 4039 in the 1940 CBC. But I don't know how accurately
the model represents this prototype.

USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly
uninsulated
The cars in this series were standard GATC Type 30 10K gal. ICC-103s.

GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but
clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated
8,000 gal w/platform
Photo of DUPX 2656 in the 1937 CBC.

PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
The model represented a GATX car that was in bulk wine service in the
late 1960s (I provided the photos and data for that one, too). The
larger center dome indicated that the prototype had been converted from
a single compartment to a three compartment car and kept its original
center dome; GATC had numerous three compartment cars, both insulated
and non-insulated, that had been converted in that fashion. But DRX
2148 wasn't a GATC car, it was a car built by the Pressed Steel Car Co.
for North American and leased to Deep Rock in the late 1920s and early
'30s by North American. There's a photo of DRX 2157 in the 1931 CBC.
The Pennzoil model is entirely bogus. Pennzoil operated a sizable
fleet of tank cars in the 1920s but, like many private owners, sold its
tank cars in favor of leasing cars when the economic bad times of the
depression came along, and the PAX cars disappeared from the ORERs ca.
1931. In any case, only four of them were three compartment cars and
none of those were insulated.

Richard Hendrickson


Tim O'Connor
 

... you mentioned that the 8k insulated 105 car was bogus.
Elden

Although I can't say the 8k ACF "hi-pressure" type car (OMI 3134)
represents an actual car, I do have a scan of SACX 687, which is
about the same size, leased to PPG Chemicals in the 1960's. So
105's of this type and general appearance did exist.

Tim O'Connor


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

... you mentioned that the 8k insulated 105 car was bogus.
Elden

Although I can't say the 8k ACF "hi-pressure" type car (OMI 3134)
represents an actual car, I do have a scan of SACX 687, which is
about the same size, leased to PPG Chemicals in the 1960's. So
105's of this type and general appearance did exist.
SACX 687 was a 6,000 gal. car, as were many other ICC-105s built for
chlorine and similar service. As usual, the absence of evidence proves
nothing, but I have a lot of photos and data on these small ICC-105s
and I have yet to find any example of an 8,000 gal. car. And believe
me, I've looked hard for one, because I also have one of Overland's 8K
insulated ICC-105 models.

Richard Hendrickson


Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 21, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

SACX 687 was a 6,000 gal. car, as were many other ICC-105s built for
chlorine and similar service. As usual, the absence of evidence proves
nothing, but I have a lot of photos and data on these small ICC-105s
and I have yet to find any example of an 8,000 gal. car. And believe
me, I've looked hard for one, because I also have one of Overland's 8K
insulated ICC-105 models.

Richard Hendrickson
Richard,
Does the model have an ACF-style underframe? I went through all the ACF
tank car data and can find NO 8,000-gallon ICC-105s were ever built.
The closest I can find is an order of 6 cars (PCIX 100-105, lot 2932),
which were 7,350 gallons for transporting liquid carbon dioxide. I have
all the underframe and tank dimensions if it's worth checking to see if
the model could possible be based on this series of cars.

Thirteen more 7.350-gallon ICC-105A cars were built in March 1952, PCIX
106-113 and SHPX 3732-3736, as lot 3646B. This is all I can find.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Tim O'Connor
 

Ed, definitely an ACF style frame. Here are my desktop
measurements with a pair of calipers as best as I can do.

Outside tank diameter 8'0"
Tank jacket length 32'7"
Tank length 33'10"
Frame length at corners 36'1"

I wondered why these were so cheap on Ebay... :-)

Richard,

Does the model have an ACF-style underframe? I went through all the ACF
tank car data and can find NO 8,000-gallon ICC-105s were ever built.
The closest I can find is an order of 6 cars (PCIX 100-105, lot 2932),
which were 7,350 gallons for transporting liquid carbon dioxide. I have
all the underframe and tank dimensions if it's worth checking to see if
the model could possibly be based on this series of cars.

Thirteen more 7.350-gallon ICC-105A cars were built in March 1952, PCIX
106-113 and SHPX 3732-3736, as lot 3646B. This is all I can find.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Thanks Richard. I thought the Pennzoil car was too good to be true.

Tim, the ad was on the back cover of a RMJ, '93, I think. I say "labeled" because there is a picture with a caption for each. You can tell that the captions are wrong by looking at the pictures.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Overland Models Tank Cars


On Aug 20, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

> I came across an ad for Overland Models from '93 or so showing a
> number of tank cars:
>
> COLX 1068 "Western Asphalt", insulated 10,000 gal
> GATX 1929, insulated 10,000 gal
> SHPX 4035 "Cities Service", insulated 10,000 gal
> USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly
> uninsulated
> GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but
> clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
> DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated
> 8,000 gal w/platform
> PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
> DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
>
> Do these match real cars? In particular, what about the Pennzoil car?
> When was it in service?

General Warning: Some of the Overland tank car models of that vintage
are correct, but many were painted and lettered in bogus paint schemes,
often based on photos of vaguely similar cars in various issues of the
Car Builders' Cyclopedias Don't trust any of them in the absence of
documentary evidence.

I know the Western Asphalt car is correct, as I supplied the data on
which the model was based. The reporting marks were CDLX, however
(California Despatch Line), an error that OL also made in the decals
for this model (though it's fairly easy to correct).

The model identified as GATX 1929 may be correct for the GATX cars of
the late 1920s, but the number is bogus. GATC used to paint and letter
demo cars with the year of their construction as the car number, but of
course those cars never went into revenue service with those numbers.

SHPX leased 10K gal. insulated Type 27s to Cities Service; there's a
photo of SHPX 4039 in the 1940 CBC. But I don't know how accurately
the model represents this prototype.

> USAX 10936 "United States Army", labeled as insulated but clearly
> uninsulated

The cars in this series were standard GATC Type 30 10K gal. ICC-103s.

> GATX 62983 "Schenectady Chemicals", labeled as uninsulated but
> clearly insulated 8,000 gal w/platform
> DUPX 2690 "DuPont", labeled as uninsulated but clearly insulated
> 8,000 gal w/platform

Photo of DUPX 2656 in the 1937 CBC.

> PAX 359 "Pennzoil", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome
> DRX 2148 "Deep-Rock", insulated 3-comp w/larger center dome

The model represented a GATX car that was in bulk wine service in the
late 1960s (I provided the photos and data for that one, too). The
larger center dome indicated that the prototype had been converted from
a single compartment to a three compartment car and kept its original
center dome; GATC had numerous three compartment cars, both insulated
and non-insulated, that had been converted in that fashion. But DRX
2148 wasn't a GATC car, it was a car built by the Pressed Steel Car Co.
for North American and leased to Deep Rock in the late 1920s and early
'30s by North American. There's a photo of DRX 2157 in the 1931 CBC.
The Pennzoil model is entirely bogus. Pennzoil operated a sizable
fleet of tank cars in the 1920s but, like many private owners, sold its
tank cars in favor of leasing cars when the economic bad times of the
depression came along, and the PAX cars disappeared from the ORERs ca.
1931. In any case, only four of them were three compartment cars and
none of those were insulated.

Richard Hendrickson


Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 21, 2007, at 8:42 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ed, definitely an ACF style frame. Here are my desktop
measurements with a pair of calipers as best as I can do.

Outside tank diameter 8'0"
Tank jacket length 32'7"
Tank length 33'10"
Frame length at corners 36'1"
Tim,
Following are the dimensions for the 6 PCIX cars in ACF lot 2932. It's
obvious that the model isn't based on these prototype cars. No telling
what it was based on. Next time I talk to Brian Marsh I'll ask him.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Truck centers: 31'-7 1/2"
Underframe length (over end sills): 42'-1 5/8"
Underframe width: 9'-8"
Jacket diameter: 90" (70" tank diameter plus 20" to account for 10"
cork insulation surrounding the tank)
Tank length: 37'-10 7/8"


Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Thanks, guys!



I bought mine at the Original Whistle Stop many moons ago (actually labeled
for Brea Chemicals, which I figured I'd strip), and thought at the time that
there must've been a prototype for a car made in brass. Argh.



Valve casing-equipped aside, the remainder of the car looks like a lot of
other 8k insulated ACF cars. If I was brave....



Thanks again for the feedback!



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 5:54 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Overland Models Tank Cars



On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

... you mentioned that the 8k insulated 105 car was bogus.
Elden

Although I can't say the 8k ACF "hi-pressure" type car (OMI 3134)
represents an actual car, I do have a scan of SACX 687, which is
about the same size, leased to PPG Chemicals in the 1960's. So
105's of this type and general appearance did exist.
SACX 687 was a 6,000 gal. car, as were many other ICC-105s built for
chlorine and similar service. As usual, the absence of evidence proves
nothing, but I have a lot of photos and data on these small ICC-105s
and I have yet to find any example of an 8,000 gal. car. And believe
me, I've looked hard for one, because I also have one of Overland's 8K
insulated ICC-105 models.

Richard Hendrickson


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 22, 2007, at 3:49 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Thanks, guys!

I bought mine at the Original Whistle Stop many moons ago (actually
labeled
for Brea Chemicals, which I figured I'd strip), and thought at the
time that
there must've been a prototype for a car made in brass. Argh.

Valve casing-equipped aside, the remainder of the car looks like a
lot of
other 8k insulated ACF cars. If I was brave....
The models were originally offered undecorated, and they didn't sell
very well. So OL painted and lettered a bunch of them, mostly with
bogus P/L schemes for which decals were readily available. As for the
models themselves, they were designed to get maximum variety out of
limited tooling - hence, among other things, an 8K gal. ICC-105 for
which there was no prototype.

Richard Hendrickson