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65 ft. gons
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ed_mines
Besides structural steel what would be some common loads for 65 ft.
steam era gons? Would structural steel be I beams and the like? Were electrical transmission towers preassembled (drilled and assembled into subsections)? They would make interesting gon loads. Years ago I met with a man who worked on a railroad during the summer in the early '50s. He told me some kind of metal was shipped in bales in these long gons (not scrap). Ed |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
Ed;
They carried everything their brethren did, although the railroads tended to assign them a bit more to services appropriate for what they bought them for. Structural steel included flanged beams, channel, ship channel, elevator bar, bar stock, "Z"s, "T"s, "U" channels (deeper than regular channel), as well as intermediate semi-finished product like blooms, billets, ingots, stools and molds, and cold and hot sheet (see burned looking PRR G26 in Color Guide 3). Intended usage was stock over 50' in length, but they often got loads shorter than that, too. I have photos of them also in scrap service, limestone, sand, gravel, and any number of manufactured products. Steel slabs were also a favorite, stacked 5 or 6 high with spacer dunnage, tilted to make them lean against a side. There are a couple neat photos Rich Burg has of a shifted slab load in a G26. Neat. I have never seen a photo of a pre-assembled tower, as they would likely be too big; but I have seen loads I thought might be the parts used on something like that, as well as parts for overhead cranes, long pressure vessels, bridge parts, girders, and other really long stuff overhanging the ends. The Bethlehem Steel photo collection is great for this, as they were really proud of what they could assemble and ship. Elden Gatwood ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of ed_mines Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:41 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] 65 ft. gons Besides structural steel what would be some common loads for 65 ft. steam era gons? Would structural steel be I beams and the like? Were electrical transmission towers preassembled (drilled and assembled into subsections)? They would make interesting gon loads. Years ago I met with a man who worked on a railroad during the summer in the early '50s. He told me some kind of metal was shipped in bales in these long gons (not scrap). Ed |
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Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Ed,
Another common load for 65' gondolas was long poles, like telephone or power poles. On the Western Pacific, these cars were often used alongside shorter gondolas carrying coiled steel from Geneva, Utah to Pittsburg, California for U.S. Steel. The coils were only loaded over the trucks to avoid stressing the center of the car. The WP even added roofs to a couple of their 65' gondolas. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff |
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Dean Payne
--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:
assembled into subsections)? They would make interesting gon loads. In the Spring 2005 Nickel Plate Road Magazine, there is an article on the 66' 6" gons of the W&LE and the 65' 6" gons of the NKP, written by Peter Shepherd. "Union Metal of Canton, a manufacturer of street lamps and steel pilings, was a frequent user of W&LE and NKP mill gondolas, as inside braces would have damaged their shipments." There is a photo of a Wheeling gon with a load of poles (which appear to be metal, I won't speculate as to their use). Of great interest to me is the fact that the W&LE gons had no real exterior bracing, either! They were built by the Canton Car Company in September of 1932 (yes, the depths of the depression). They were "almost two feet narrower than a conventional 48- or 52-feet long gondola", to prevent "excessive swing-out of the corners on tight-clearance industrial trackage..." Let's get back to the sides, with no interior or exterior bracing. They did have four exterior straps at the seams, but these had a flat cross-section. I haven't seen a photo of the inside, but it mentions "the side plates were riveted to inside structural members." However, they "received mechanical designation GM". "Such cars had no inside braces or gussets..." So, how did they do this without having the sides get bashed to oblivion? There are photos of examples from 1968 and 1971, looking pretty straight and true, the last one "left service sometime in late 1982 or early 1983". (The loaders must have been skilled, but I figured the un-loaders might be the typical ham-fisted type that caused so many photogenic "textured" gondola sides!) And, why forgo the external bracing, which they had on the NKP mill gons? The NKP gons were built in 1936, perhaps the clearances were a bit less restrictive. There IS a photo of the interior of one of these, showing rivets and foldable stake pockets only. Boy, these are LONG freight cars! Dean Payne |
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Larry Kline
Dean Payne wrote:
Of great interest to me is the fact that the W&LE gons had no real exterior bracing, either! [snip] I haven't seen a photo of the inside, but it mentions "the side plates were riveted to inside structural members." However, they "received mechanical designation GM". "Such cars had no inside braces or gussets..." The side stakes were on the inside of the side sheets on these cars. There is a nice set of Drawings by Craig Bossler in the January 1968 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, pg 43. The inside side stakes are shown in cross-section views. Craig also has a few interior photos which have never been published as far as I know. I have copying machine copies of the photos. Larry Kline Pittsburgh, PA |
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Larry Kline
I just posted a drawing in the files section with some notes and
sketches added to Craig Bossler's cross section drawings. The notes and sketches are intended to clarify what the interior side stakes looked like on these cars. The file name is: _W&LE inside-out gon xsect notes.jpg_ Larry Kline Pittsburgh, PA |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
Thanks, Larry! Very cool car!
Elden Gatwood ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Larry Kline Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:18 AM To: STMFC list Subject: [STMFC] Re: 65 ft. gons I just posted a drawing in the files section with some notes and sketches added to Craig Bossler's cross section drawings. The notes and sketches are intended to clarify what the interior side stakes looked like on these cars. The file name is: _W&LE inside-out gon xsect notes.jpg_ Larry Kline Pittsburgh, PA |
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proto48er
Larry -
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Have you built one of Nickel Plate Models' WLE mill gons? I hope to start the "O" scale kit soon. Back in the late 1960's, when Craig's one-page article appeared in RMC, I built 3 cars to that plan out of brass shimstock. The rivets I used were too large, so I sold them and am going with the NKP Models car instead. What did you think of the kit - side profile in particular? A.T. Kott --- In STMFC@..., Larry Kline <lndkline@...> wrote:
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Larry Kline
A.T. Kott asked:
Larry - Have you built one of Nickel Plate Models' WLE mill gons? [snip] and What did you think of the kit - side profile in particular? I have one of the kits but I haven't built it. I haven't looked carefully at the kit. What do you think of the side profile? As the supplement to the instructions says, the interior side stakes will have to be scratchbuilt. Satn Rydarowicz has an HO model of one of these cars. I think he built it using an Eastern Car Works kit. Larry Kline Pittsburgh, PA |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Aug 23, 2007, at 7:07 PM, Dean Payne wrote:
Of great interest to me is the fact that the W&LE gons had no realThe issue of side posts has already been dealt with; of course, the cars had to have side posts, but in this instance they were concealed between the inner and outer sheathing. As for preventing "excessive swing-out of the corners," etc. I've seen this written elsewhere with regard to the narrow width of 65' mill gons but it is total nonsense. The issue wasn't swing out of the corners, it was the fact that the long bodies would overhang the rails excessively at the center on tight radius curves, often to a point that would exceed clearance limits. For this reason some switching RRs with sharp curves would not accept long gons in interchange, or would accept them only contingent on advance notice and restricted routing. Richard Hendrickson |
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Larry Kline
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
The issue of side posts has already been dealt with; of course, the cars had to have side posts, but in this instance they were concealed between the inner and outer sheathing. Richard meant that the side posts were concealed behind the outer sheathing. There was no inner sheathing on the W&LE inside out gons. Larry Kline Pittsburgh, PA |
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Dean Payne
--- In STMFC@..., Larry Kline <lndkline@...> wrote:
the cars had to have side posts, but in this instance they were concealed between the inner and outer sheathing. OK, this is how I thought it would have been, before I read (mis- read?) the article. Next question: Why would they do it like that (build the gon "inside- out")? The Nickel Plate had similar-length gons, serving similar locations, just a few years later, with the side posts in the conventional outside location. I would guess they needed an extra few inches inside clearance? These gons were built very narrow (I would agree the issue was more likely CENTER overhang, rather than the corner swing-out.) Dean Payne |
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