Auto transporting


ron christensen
 

This subject seem to be at the end of the groups time period
About what year did Auto box cars leave auto service.
The change over from box cars to auto racks must be in the mid 50's.
Pictures show for a short time auto transports were hauled TOFC, but by 1960 the auto rack
was the way autos were transported.
I don't recal a lot written about this time period of change.
Ron Christensen


Jack Burgess
 

Wasn't there an general article on auto box cars in MR within the past 6
months or so? (I can't check my copy since I rip out articles I want and
recycle the rest of the magazine.)

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

This subject seem to be at the end of the groups time period
About what year did Auto box cars leave auto service.
The change over from box cars to auto racks must be in the mid 50's.
Pictures show for a short time auto transports were hauled TOFC,
but by 1960 the auto rack
was the way autos were transported.
I don't recal a lot written about this time period of change.
Ron Christensen


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

In 1961 there were still over 11,000 XAR/XMR "auto device" cars listed in the ORER for Class I RRs.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: rxensen

This subject seem to be at the end of the groups time period
About what year did Auto box cars leave auto service.
The change over from box cars to auto racks must be in the mid 50's.


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Posted by: "Jack Burgess" > This subject seem to be at the end of the groups time period
About what year did Auto box cars leave auto service. > The change over from box cars to auto racks must be in the mid 50's. > Pictures show for a short time auto transports were hauled TOFC, > but by 1960 the auto rack was the way autos were transported.
I could fill in a lot of detail on that but will have to keep it brief because of the era problem. BTW, is 1960 within the cutoff date ? Highlights from my NYC experience.

Summer 1959 - railroads handling very few setup autos, most box cars no longer in that services. Market research project that summer on NE auto sales leads to auto carrier flexi-van, put in service IIRC early 1960.

I think it was '58 that SLSF had first multilevel.

Summer 1960. NYC fixed clearances to handle multilevels to Framingham and Little Ferry. ML summer job measuiring clearances between buffalo and Framingham..




Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ron Christensen wrote:
About what year did Auto box cars leave auto service. The change over from box cars to auto racks must be in the mid 50's. Pictures show for a short time auto transports were hauled TOFC, but by 1960 the auto rack was the way autos were transported. I don't recal a lot written about this time period of change.
Ron, you are right about the approximate period of the change. Movement of assembled automobiles in auto cars began to decline sharply after 1950 as highway truck transport took over. By 1959, less than 10 per cent of all new autos were shipped by rail. Some TOFC movement of transporter trailers did occur in the late 1950s, as you mention, but you can't see any effect on the overall shipping numbers. The first auto racks on flat cars appeared in 1958 and 1959, made effective mostly by acceptance of the 85-foot flat car in that period. Though after this list, by 1966 over half of all new autos would be transported by rail.
One place you can read about this is in the Walthers book (a good one), "America's Driving Force," published in 1998. It's out of print for some time now, but readily available from used book dealers. Either Amazon or ABE Books will quickly lead you to the book. It contains a great deal of information about the auto industry's relation to railroads.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Posted by: "Kurt Laughlin" In 1961 there were still over 11,000 XAR/XMR "auto device" cars listed in
the ORER for Class I RRs.
===========

That doesn't tell us anything about how they were being used. Most likely they were sitting on sidings waiting for rebuild programs that required cars of those dimensions and door type, which was likely not often. Every year many railroads had boxcar upgrade programs that used older cars that were obsolete or in bad repair.

When cars were taken out of service, they were not removed from the ORER until they were whitelined.




Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


ron christensen
 

Thanks for the information.
I orderd the book this AM.
I need to ask the question on the post "60" group.
Ron

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Ron Christensen wrote:
About what year did Auto box cars leave auto service. The change over
from box cars to auto racks must be in the mid 50's. Pictures show for
a short time auto transports were hauled TOFC, but by 1960 the auto
rack was the way autos were transported. I don't recal a lot written
about this time period of change.
Ron, you are right about the approximate period of the change.
Movement of assembled automobiles in auto cars began to decline
sharply after 1950 as highway truck transport took over. By 1959, less
than 10 per cent of all new autos were shipped by rail. Some TOFC
movement of transporter trailers did occur in the late 1950s, as you
mention, but you can't see any effect on the overall shipping numbers.
The first auto racks on flat cars appeared in 1958 and 1959, made
effective mostly by acceptance of the 85-foot flat car in that period.
Though after this list, by 1966 over half of all new autos would be
transported by rail.
One place you can read about this is in the Walthers book (a good
one), "America's Driving Force," published in 1998. It's out of print
for some time now, but readily available from used book dealers. Either
Amazon or ABE Books will quickly lead you to the book. It contains a
great deal of information about the auto industry's relation to
railroads.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hello Ron,

It was 1960 when 85-foot trilevel auto racks were introduced, just barely
within the purview of this list. By 1960 the rails had pretty much lost the
assembled automobile business to trucks, but the rack cars enabled the
railroads to regain at least a substantial share of this traffic.

The "Model Railroader" coverage Jack B. referred to was in a pair of
Information Desk columns by Carl Swanson in the June and July issues earlier
this year. June, pages 24 and 26, described automobile boxcars, including a
diagram showing how Evans Auto-Loaders worked; July, pages 24 and 26, is
about the introduction of auto-rack cars.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Andy says that tri-levels were introduced in 1960. how does that reconcile with the initial use of multi-levels in 1958. Were the early cars all bi-levels ?

Another kind of car used on NYC and other roads with clearance problems was called the low tri-pack. I recall vaguely something about raisable ramps at the end.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
Andy says that tri-levels were introduced in 1960. how does that reconcile with the initial use of multi-levels in 1958. Were the early cars all bi-levels ?
One can, of course, debate what "introduced" means. SP built tri-level racks in 1959 and I have no reason to think they built the first ones. Bi-level racks were introduced at essentially the same time and were used for pickups and vans, which were taller than automobiles.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

I wouldn't argue with Tony about the SP tri-levels, so I'll stand corrected
as far as 1959. If there were auto-rack cars in 1958, can anyone say who
built them or operated them? (I wouldn't count those earlier bi-level racks
for 50-foot flatcars, since they were clearly experimental and not
repeated.)

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Sperandeo wrote:
I wouldn't argue with Tony about the SP tri-levels, so I'll stand corrected as far as 1959.
I think the 1960 date for auto racks is probably based on the Pullman-Standard flat car, designed specifically for use with racks, that was introduced that year. Earlier racks were placed on modified piggyback or container or "general-service" 85-foot flats. In my view, the racks did pre-date the specially designed flat cars and ought not to be confused with them, but of course, the introduction of such a car clearly shows that racks were a strongly emerging car type. That does make 1960 a good watershed year for rack use.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

Don't forget simply transporting autos on trailers on
flat cars -- this was very common by the late 1950's.
The old Revell "auto transporter" kit is perfect for this
application, and the Athearn F85F flat car is a very
good model of a car built in 1960 (very similar cars
were built in 1959). Prior to that time the trailers were
transported on converted flat cars, PRR/TTX F39's,
and even converted War Emergency gondolas (e.g.
Rock Island). The auto racks eventually ended TOFC
transportation of autos.

Tim O'Connor


Tim O'Connor
 

I have a scan of an early autorack with pickups on top, small
cars on the mid-deck, and large cars on the bottom deck -- all
Ford/Lincoln-Mercury.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>

One can, of course, debate what "introduced" means. SP built
tri-level racks in 1959 and I have no reason to think they built the
first ones. Bi-level racks were introduced at essentially the same time
and were used for pickups and vans, which were taller than automobiles.

Tony Thompson


Tim O'Connor
 

Anyone interested in early auto racks can search the archives of
the MFCL. Jim Eager and others have posted quite a lot of good
information on this subject -- When you're talking about racks it is
necessary to distinguish between the flat car builders (ACF,PS,
GenAm,Bethlehem) and the rack builders (W&K,Portec,Dana,etc).
It's actually a pretty complicated subject, and flat cars built for one
purpose have often ended up with two, three or four incarnations
as something else!

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
Andy Sperandeo wrote:
I wouldn't argue with Tony about the SP tri-levels, so I'll stand
corrected as far as 1959.
I think the 1960 date for auto racks is probably based on the
Pullman-Standard flat car, designed specifically for use with racks,
that was introduced that year. Earlier racks were placed on modified
piggyback or container or "general-service" 85-foot flats. In my view,
the racks did pre-date the specially designed flat cars and ought not
to be confused with them, but of course, the introduction of such a car
clearly shows that racks were a strongly emerging car type. That does
make 1960 a good watershed year for rack use.

Tony Thompson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
When you're talking about racks it is necessary to distinguish between the flat car builders (ACF,PS, GenAm,Bethlehem) and the rack builders (W&K,Portec,Dana,etc).
Very true, but don't forget Paragon.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Thomas Baker
 

________________________________


IN the late Fifties, Lionel came out with a 40-foot double decked auto carrier. Lionel, of course, has historically hardly been a source for prototype accuracy. Yet I wonder whether this car had some foundation in what was actually an early version of a double-decked auto carrier. Anyone know?

Tom Baker
bakert@andrews.edu


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Tony's call on 1960 as the "watershed year" makes sense to me. The trivia debate about a handful of cars in 1958 and a big handful in 1959 doesn't really matter. It was in 1960 that the big buildup began. I'm sure by that year Ford, GM and Chrysler were all putting a lot of pressure on the railroads to get the cars in service.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478