DS/SS split, April 1949; CNW, GN, CB&Q


laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here is a comparison of double sheathed, single sheathed, and steel
box and auto cars for the CNW, GN, and CB&Q for April 1949 and July
1950. Car quantities are from the ORERs of those dates; siding type
is from other sources.


CNW

April 1949
CNW_____%____Number
DS_____1.0%____223
SS_____55.8%____12,588
Steel_____43.2%____9,736
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____22,547
Unknown_____0.0%____2
Total_____100.0%____22,549

July 1950
CNW . . . . %. . .Number
DS . . . . 1.0%. . .238
SS . . . .51.7%. . .11,982
Steel. . .47.3%. . .10,967
Other. . . 0.0%. . .0
Known. . 100.0%. . .23,187
Unknown. . 0.0%. . .0
Total. . 100.0%. . .23,187

The CNW bucked the national trend of losing box and auto cars between
1949 and 1950 by gaining a few hundred. Even more unusual, it gained
15 double sheathed cars, while the rest of the industry was shedding
them in droves. (It retired 8 but added 23 AAR type XI cars; Jack
Mullen explains how these were converted from milk cars in message
#65871.) SS declined by about 600 and steel increased by over 1,200.


GN

April 1949
GN_____%____Number
DS_____70.6%____15,551
SS_____15.9%____3,495
Steel_____4.5%____1,000
Other_____9.0%____1,994
Known_____100.0%____22,040
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____22,040

July 1950
GN_____%____Number
DS_____64.2%____14,326
SS_____15.6%____3,487
Steel_____11.2%____2,499
Other_____8.9%____1,988
Known_____100.0%____22,300
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____22,300

The GN also gained cars. It retired over 1,200 double sheathed, but
added nearly 1,500 steel (an increase of 150%). Its SS fleet
remained nearly the same, as did its plywood sheathed cars ("Other"
in the table).



CB&Q

April 1949
CB&Q_____%____Number
DS_____3.6%____806
SS_____51.1%____11,514
Steel_____45.3%____10,199
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____99.9%____22,519
Unknown_____0.1%____12
Total_____100.0%____22,531

July 1950
CB&Q_____%____Number
DS_____1.3%____272
SS_____50.7%____10,890
Steel_____48.0%____10,305
Other_____0.0%____0
Known_____100.0%____21,467
Unknown_____0.0%____0
Total_____100.0%____21,467

The CB&Q retired about two-thirds of its double sheathed cars. It
also trimmed its SS fleet by over 600, while adding just over 100
steel cars. Overall, box and auto cars declined by 1,064.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Thomas Baker
 

The number of DS cars in the GN freight car fleet contrasts sharply with the trend, certainly apparent by 1949, to scrap or rebuild such cars. Growing up in Minneapolis, I recall seeing an inordinate number of GN DS cars. One wonders what special care the railway gave its DS cars that other roads did not expend on their fleet of such cars.

Tom Baker

________________________________


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Baker" <bakert@...> wrote:

The number of DS cars in the GN freight car fleet contrasts sharply
with the trend, certainly apparent by 1949, to scrap or rebuild such
cars. Growing up in Minneapolis, I recall seeing an inordinate number
of GN DS cars. One wonders what special care the railway gave its DS
cars that other roads did not expend on their fleet of such cars.

Tom
The later built GN DS cars had full steel body framing, so in that
respect were not much different from the AAR war emergency boxcars.
The "special care" was a management decision to spend more money over
the long run to periodically re-sheath cars rather than spend more
money up front for steel sheathing.

Dennis


armprem
 

Could it have been a concession to the on-line lumber industry? Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@mchsi.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:49 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: DS/SS split, April 1949; CNW, GN, CB&Q


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Baker" <bakert@...> wrote:

The number of DS cars in the GN freight car fleet contrasts sharply
with the trend, certainly apparent by 1949, to scrap or rebuild such
cars. Growing up in Minneapolis, I recall seeing an inordinate number
of GN DS cars. One wonders what special care the railway gave its DS
cars that other roads did not expend on their fleet of such cars.

Tom
The later built GN DS cars had full steel body framing, so in that
respect were not much different from the AAR war emergency boxcars.
The "special care" was a management decision to spend more money over
the long run to periodically re-sheath cars rather than spend more
money up front for steel sheathing.

Dennis





Yahoo! Groups Links



toddsyr <toddsyr@...>
 

Armand Premo wrote:

"Could it have been a concession to the on-line lumber industry?"

If I'm not mistaken, I read that very fact stated on this list at one time. Makes sense to me.

Todd K. Stearns


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 27, 2007, at 12:20 PM, toddsyr wrote:

Armand Premo wrote:

"Could it have been a concession to the on-line lumber industry?"

If I'm not mistaken, I read that very fact stated on this list at one
time. Makes sense to me.

Todd K. Stearns
No, Todd, you didn't see that stated as a fact here, you saw it stated
as an inference, which is not at all the same thing. It has often been
inferred (by myself as well as numerous others) that the GN persisted
in building wood sheathed box cars as a public relations gesture toward
its many timber shippers. However, I am not aware that any
documentation has turned up which confirms that inference. It makes
sense to me, too, but there's no hard evidence.

Richard Hendrickson


gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Aug 27, 2007, at 12:20 PM, toddsyr wrote:

Armand Premo wrote:

"Could it have been a concession to the on-line lumber industry?"

If I'm not mistaken, I read that very fact stated on this list at one
time. Makes sense to me.

Todd K. Stearns
No, Todd, you didn't see that stated as a fact here, you saw it stated
as an inference, which is not at all the same thing. It has often been
inferred (by myself as well as numerous others) that the GN persisted
in building wood sheathed box cars as a public relations gesture toward
its many timber shippers. However, I am not aware that any
documentation has turned up which confirms that inference. It makes
sense to me, too, but there's no hard evidence.

Richard Hendrickson




--- End forwarded message ---

I was one of those who speculated that GN was catering to online lumber interests in
continuing to order and rebuild DS boxcars. See message #29759 in the archives. A list
member had the kindness to forward my message to Jeff Koeller, who has researched
these cars, including examining the AFE documents, and states that there is no evidence
to suggest appeasement of the timber industry as a primary factor in the GN's decision. In
fact, he found that they cost the same as comparable steel cars, so economy doesn't seem
a plausible reason either. I would guess (warning! rampant speculation ahead!) that GN
had such a massive investment in DS construction, and had a shop force so familiar with
the maintenance of these cars, that they didn't see a need to change. I have heard rumors
of an article or articles about the GN 45000-52999 series being prepared, and perhaps
some new information will come to light.

As far as a comparison of lumber traffic between GN and NP, I am not aware of any
breakdown between the two roads. Both did a brisk business in hauling lumber, though.
On my layout, however, most of my GN DS boxcars will be hauling wheat!

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Stanley, ND


Tim O'Connor
 

The NP owned significant timberlands thanks to land grants.
So add that to the sauce of speculation.... (Surely NP was in a
position to save money by using wood products. Let alone the
idea they were trying to placate their customers.)

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
No, Todd, you didn't see that stated as a fact here, you saw it stated
as an inference, which is not at all the same thing. It has often been
inferred (by myself as well as numerous others) that the GN persisted
in building wood sheathed box cars as a public relations gesture toward
its many timber shippers. However, I am not aware that any
documentation has turned up which confirms that inference. It makes
sense to me, too, but there's no hard evidence.
Richard Hendrickson