My Errors & Omissions


John Hitzeman
 

Dennis is 99.9% correct in his critique of my post. ;o)

However,?I was just trying to keep it as simple and short as possible,
so as not to "crowd" more into the list than needed.

So, I apologize for the omissions and inaccuracies on my part.
I just didn't feel it appropriate to go into all of the other info.

But, I will do so, briefly, now.

"Plexiglas" is/was the registered trade name of Rohm & Haas,
or at least it used to be -- ?? That's something else I forgot
to write previously.

Rohm?& Haas' trade name has only one "S" on the end --
Plexiglas(s) with two S's on the end is incorrect.

Some computer "spell-checkers" will try to capitalize the
"P" if you type 'plexiglas' with one "S", or if you spell it with
two S's, it will try and capitalize it, and use only?one "S".

I guess that "plexiglass" may have become the generic term
for acrylic sheet.

Also, "plexiglas" sheet is not only cast, but?can be also be extruded.

We have found that certain thickness(es) of "plex" cut better if they
are cast, and others if they are extruded, depending upon the thickness
we buy from our suppliers.

A lot of people/customers in?the commercial end of AMB,?give us that
blank look if?we say "It's made from acrylic."

It seems that they do not necessarily relate to it?---- or, the only
previous time they've heard "acrylic" is in commercials for floor polish,
or auto products.?

But, in that same commercial market, if you say,
"It's made from plex",
the greater percentage of folks seem to know
what you mean.

I mentioned working for Monsanto Company many years ago.

At that time, Monsanto was the largest manufacturer/supplier of ABS,
commercially. At least, that's what the Monsanto people told me!

I worked on several engineering jobs, with the chemical engineers,?
relative additions and modifications to?Monsanto plants producing ABS.

My statement regarding the addition of ABS to styrene was intended
to be a "blanket" one, a generalization if you will, as I am not as well
versed on the subject as?Dennis.


On another subject, about 12 years ago, we had to laser cut several
thousand small pieces of 'Lexan' (TM-GE) for a division of General Electric.

We had to make an initial cut with settings adjusted to cut through (scribe)
the coating only, as settings powerful enough to cut completely through the
material would ignite the coating -- we couldn't have that happen -- so
we would cut completely through?with several passes.

All material had to have new masking, made for laser cutting, applied
to it after the factory applied, brown paper masking was removed. This
was done before laser cutting.

This not only served to prevent ignition of the adhesive used to hold the
"brown" masking on, but it also protected the extremely "sensitive"
surface of the Lexan.

So, yes, 'Lexan" is a GE product, and it is polycarbonate, not acrylic,
in that sense of the word. However, there are folks who will
refer to "plexiglas", generically, as "lexan", too. I guess it just
depends where, and who, you are.

Once again, my apologies for previous, and future, errors and
also for expounding on a non-list related topic.

BTW - Does anyone on this list know the routing of PRR "gun flats"
(F22's, specially equipped) between the Washington Navy Yard
and the Navy Yards at Bremerton, WA and San Francisco, CA?

I asked this question on a PRR List a month ago, and it turned into
a huge thread discussing the making of the gun barrels and the
companies who were involved. 'Not one post on the routing. <G>

John


Dennis Storzek wrote:


I hate to make corrections to someone else's posting, but some if the
materials information John gives is not correct:

ABS is not added to polystyrene to make it more impact resistant, but
butadiene (one component of ABS) is one of the impact modifiers used
to make High Impact Polystyrene (H.I.P.S.). Since it is difficult to
obtain a glossy surface on H.I.P.S., acrylonitrile (acrylic) is added
to improve surface gloss, yielding ABS.

Plexiglass is a trade name for cast acrylic sheet. I'm not aware of
any coated Plexiglass sheets, since Acrylic is relatively hard and
scratch resistant on it's own.

Lexan is GE's trade name for cast polycarbonate sheet. Polycarbonate
is very tough and impact resistant (think "bullet-proof" glass) but
the surface scratches easily, as was found when transit agencies
started to use it for bus and train car glazing; the rotary brush
washers quickly scuffed the surface to an opaque finish.

As a result of this, several suppliers brought out scratch resistant
glazing under the Tuff-ack and Mar-guard trade names. These sheets are
polycarbonate with a Mylar (polyester) film bonded to each surface.

All of the above resins , except the Mylar surface films, can be
solvent bonded using methylene chloride. Unfortunately, methylene
chloride is listed by OSHA as a potential occupational carcinogen, so
it is not as readily available as it once was. Ambroid's Pro-Weld
seems to be a reasonable substitute.

















John Hitzeman
President/Owner
American Model Builders, Inc.
Now In Our 25th Year!!
LASERkit (tm)
www.rgspemkt.com
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www.laserkit.com






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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John Hitzeman wrote:
So, yes, 'Lexan" is a GE product, and it is polycarbonate, not acrylic, in that sense of the word. However, there are folks who will refer to "plexiglas", generically, as "lexan", too. I guess it just depends where, and who, you are.
John, sadly you're right. About like calling plexiglas "styrene," as long as it's a clear material . . . but especially on this list, we don't confuse common usage with correct usage <g>.
Let's see, there's the Bettendorf truck, and the . . .

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Greg Martin
 

BTW - Does anyone on this list know the routing of PRR "gun flats"
(F22's, specially equipped) between the Washington Navy Yard
and the Navy Yards at Bremerton, WA and San Francisco, CA?

I asked this question on a PRR List a month ago, and it turned into
a huge thread discussing the making of the gun barrels and the
companies who were involved. 'Not one post on the routing. <G>

John




John,

This would be an educated guess, based on old RR maps of the era for Bremerton, WA. it would have likely been, PRR-CHGO-MILW for NP delivery. The Northern Pacific was the final carrier, in this case the delivering carrier, and the line haul out of Chciago would have likely have been Milwaukee as they had a direct connection out of Tacoma, WA to Hoquiam, WA and the NP controlled traffic from there on to Bremerton

However; it could have traveled on the NP as well. But baed on the fact that Milwaukie had gun flats as well and the traffic being mostly captive and it is likely the PRR would ask the Milwaukee to share equipment with the PRR as they both shared the line hauls. I could be wong, but it makes the most sense.

Perhaps the NP guys could chime in here and let us know if they to had gun flats or there is photo evidence that they were seen on the NP.?Then it could have gone over the Q to the GN as well...

The San Francisico connection could be a bit more complicated as the SP had no direct connection out of Chicago, but could have taken the traffic?via numerous bridge routes.
?
Greg Martin??
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Tim O'Connor
 

So, yes, 'Lexan" is a GE product, and it is polycarbonate
I hate that word -- it can be used to describe just about
anything with organic molecules, including us! (Steve Funaro
insists his kits use "polycarbonate" resin.)

Tim "I once dated Polly Carbonate" O'Connor


SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 8/27/2007 11:22:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
smithbf@auburn.edu writes:

I believe that Pocatello served as a
storage depot for these large guns during WWII and that they would have
been transported from there to Bremerton.
Bruce,

During WWII the Navy had a testing facility at what is now the Naval Nuclear
Engineering Laboratory near ARCO, Idaho. There was a branch that left the
Pocatello- West Yellowstone Branch at Blackfoot that went to ARCO. Off this
branch was another branch into the Navel Engineering Lablratory. All these gun
tubes passing through and/or being stored at Pocatello may have been being tested
at the Naval facility before being sent of installation. I have no
documentation only the stories of a UP conductor who lived in the apartment next to
mine when I was in grad school at Idaho State. Old Charlie hated those runs to
the Naval Laboratory. He would complain for days about all the security --
three perimeter fences with complete checks of the train at each one. Then the
same thing coming out.

Rich Orr


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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim "I once dated Polly Carbonate" O'Connor wrote:
I hate that word -- it can be used to describe just about anything with organic molecules, including us! (Steve Funaro insists his kits use "polycarbonate" resin.)
C'mon Tim, get a grip. That words are misused, and by Steve Funaro of all people, doesn't mean words have no meaning, or else we'd suffer from movies called "Steel Magnolias" and the "titanium" backpacks at your store.
Polycarbonates are really quite specific polymers, even if Tim over-reacts to the root "carbon" in the name. These are polymers linked by carbonate groups (I won't go into single and double bonds, but they are effectively CO3 groups). There are two main types, aliphatic and aromatic polycarbonates . . . and those not following along will have nodded off by now. There is a VERY wide variety of polycarbonates--for more, look up the term in Wikipedia. But I betcha Steve's resins are not close.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net


Bruce Smith
 

BTW - Does anyone on this list know the routing of PRR "gun flats"
(F22's, specially equipped) between the Washington Navy Yard
and the Navy Yards at Bremerton, WA and San Francisco, CA?

I asked this question on a PRR List a month ago, and it turned into
a huge thread discussing the making of the gun barrels and the
companies who were involved. 'Not one post on the routing. <G>

John
John,

Dang - I thought I answered this for you <G>. North to the Philadelphia
Navy Yard and New York Navy Yard was likely PRR all the way. Westward is
less clear. Routing could have been north to Baltimore and the via the
Northern Central to Enola, or by the Columbia and Port Deposit branch of
the PRR to Enola (more likely as the C&PD was the preferred high and wide
routing). From Enola, the cars would have gone west over Horseshoe curve
to Chicago, as indicated by Greg in his reply. Recently I received some
documentation on these cars from a list member that indicated that a
portion of the PRR cars and all of the Milwaukee gun flats were assigned
to the UP in Pocatello Idaho. I believe that Pocatello served as a
storage depot for these large guns during WWII and that they would have
been transported from there to Bremerton. Routing between Chicago and
Pocatello may have depended on appropriate high and wide routes. In
addition, there are photos of F22 with gun loads on the AT&SF. Finally,
There was also a depot for these guns in Hawthorne Nevada.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
Finally, there was also a depot for these guns in Hawthorne Nevada.
Yes, the Naval Ammunition Depot, as it was called at that time. This was accessed from the SP's Mina Branch. Bruce, do you have any idea how extensively Hawthorne was used for naval gun tubes?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Bruce Smith
 

On Aug 28, 2007, at 1:04 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Bruce Smith wrote:
Finally, there was also a depot for these guns in Hawthorne Nevada.
Yes, the Naval Ammunition Depot, as it was called at that time.
This was accessed from the SP's Mina Branch. Bruce, do you have any
idea how extensively Hawthorne was used for naval gun tubes?
Tony,

Alas, not a clue. I'm not even sure that Hawthorne was used during WWII, however I think it was as an ATSF routing for guns makes no sense if they are going to Pocatello or Bremerton <G>. I do know that several listers here pointed out that Hawthorne was the last storage depot for the battleship guns. I believe that when they were recommissioned, Hawthorne was the source of new gun tubes and that a number of guns were cut up on site within about the last 30 years or so.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Bruce Smith
 

I wrote:
I believe that Pocatello served as a
storage depot for these large guns during WWII and that they would have
been transported from there to Bremerton.
Rich replied:
During WWII the Navy had a testing facility at what is now the Naval Nuclear
Engineering Laboratory near ARCO, Idaho. There was a branch that left the
Pocatello- West Yellowstone Branch at Blackfoot that went to ARCO. Off this
branch was another branch into the Navel Engineering Laboratory. All these gun
tubes passing through and/or being stored at Pocatello may have been being tested
at the Naval facility before being sent of installation. I have no
documentation only the stories of a UP conductor who lived in the apartment next to
mine when I was in grad school at Idaho State. Old Charlie hated those runs to
the Naval Laboratory. He would complain for days about all the security --
three perimeter fences with complete checks of the train at each one. Then the
same thing coming out.
Rich,

Fascinating! I know that Dahlgren Virginia was the main site of testing for large naval guns. The guns were shipped by barge down the Potomac from the Washington Naval Yard (WNY, aka Washington Naval Gun Factory). With the pressure of the war and increased production, it wouldn't surprise me at all that some testing would shift elsewhere. I wonder too if there is some differentiation between testing as in experimenting (ie. new designs, metals, coatings etc) and test firing production guns.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith
I wonder too if there is some differentiation between
testing as in experimenting (ie. new designs, metals, coatings etc)
and test firing production guns.

----- Original Message -----

In the Army at least, yes. Development was done at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, proof firing was done at various locations such as the current Camp Perry OH.

The official naval histories of WW II may be online. If they are like the Army "Green Books" they should have some good info.

KL