DS in Grain Service


Russ Strodtz <borneo@...>
 

Malcolm,

How very true. The first hurdle in this process is at the
point where a Clerk or Operator does a physical check of
the cars in a train. Many were unable to even make good
associations as to car type.

Was transcribing an old list yesterday. Saw a D&RGW GS
gon shown as a "Stock Car". Also saw a FHIX RS car shown
as a "CB&Q Box Car".

These problems sort themselves out. When the Conductor
on a branch line local looks at his "Grain Empty" storage
track he will weed them out and send cars he doesn't want
back to the nearest terminal. Even at that point all he
was looking at was size and door type.

Russ

In all my times of association with the car distribution
process, I don't recallever seeing an order that said
anything about type of sheathing. That was notpart of
the readily available information about a car. If it's
40 ft. box withno leaks in the roof, sides or floor, no
visible contamination (e.g.grease,oil)and it has six
foot doors, it's a grain car.
Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


armprem
 

Quess this is just another reason for consulting an ORER.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ Strodtz" <borneo@19main.com>
To: "Steam Era Freight" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: [STMFC] DS in Grain Service


Malcolm,

How very true. The first hurdle in this process is at the
point where a Clerk or Operator does a physical check of
the cars in a train. Many were unable to even make good
associations as to car type.

Was transcribing an old list yesterday. Saw a D&RGW GS
gon shown as a "Stock Car". Also saw a FHIX RS car shown
as a "CB&Q Box Car".

These problems sort themselves out. When the Conductor
on a branch line local looks at his "Grain Empty" storage
track he will weed them out and send cars he doesn't want
back to the nearest terminal. Even at that point all he
was looking at was size and door type.

Russ

In all my times of association with the car distribution
process, I don't recallever seeing an order that said
anything about type of sheathing. That was notpart of
the readily available information about a car. If it's
40 ft. box withno leaks in the roof, sides or floor, no
visible contamination (e.g.grease,oil)and it has six
foot doors, it's a grain car.
Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478




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Russ Strodtz <borneo@...>
 

Armand,

Basic problem there is they were expensive and most
roads did not provide them to very many Agencies or
Yard Offices. There would probably be a copy in a
large billing department but nobody there was checking
any cars or dispositioning any empties.

There is also a time factor here. You got a crew standing
there waiting to start switching and you are looking up
cars in an ORER? Not likely. This stuff was all "On the
job training", you either picked it up or you didn't.
Many didn't and generally went to jobs where they did not
need to check cars or disposition empties.

At the particular location I was referring to there were a
Leverman and a Clerk each shift. Many times half way thru
a physical check the handwriting would change. There was
no need for the Leverman to know anything about car types.
I have been told that as the CTC was installed in the 50's
many of these Levermen left the Railroad rather than learn
Agency work. There were other roads still looking to staff
towers. I almost switched Railroads once but not over that
issue.

Russ

Quess this is just another reason for consulting an ORER.
Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ Strodtz" <borneo@...>
To: "Steam Era Freight" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: [STMFC] DS in Grain Service


Malcolm,

How very true. The first hurdle in this process is at the
point where a Clerk or Operator does a physical check of
the cars in a train. Many were unable to even make good
associations as to car type.

Was transcribing an old list yesterday. Saw a D&RGW GS
gon shown as a "Stock Car". Also saw a FHIX RS car shown
as a "CB&Q Box Car".

These problems sort themselves out. When the Conductor
on a branch line local looks at his "Grain Empty" storage
track he will weed them out and send cars he doesn't want
back to the nearest terminal. Even at that point all he
was looking at was size and door type.

Russ


Thomas Baker
 

In interviews I have had with the operators of grain elevators on the old Chicago Great Western in Minnesota, I walked away with the impression that the grain elevators would have been happy with any clean car they could obtain, double-sheathed or not. One former grain elevator operator told me that much seemed dependent on how friendly one was with the conductor of the train. If the conductor was favorable, a clean car showed up from somewhere as soon as possible. If not, well, one waited. Perhaps this man was just spouting his resentment at his bad luck or fact.

Tom


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 30, 2007, at 4:44 PM, Russ Strodtz wrote:

Basic problem there is they (ORERS) were expensive and most
roads did not provide them to very many Agencies or
Yard Offices. There would probably be a copy in a
large billing department but nobody there was checking
any cars or dispositioning any empties.
I'n not sure what RRs or time periods Russ is generalizing
(over-generalizing?) about here, but in the late 1940s and early 1950s,
when I spent a lot of time hanging around the Santa Fe and Southern
Pacific in California, every agent, even at small stations, had a
current copy of the ORER and used it. I well remember the agent at
Oceanside walking the yard every morning, clip board in hand, and
consulting the ORER in his office, if he needed to, regarding any of
the cars in the yard, especially cars in assigned service (e.g. U.S.
Navy ammunition cars) which had to be returned to their point of
origin.

Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
I'n not sure what RRs or time periods Russ is generalizing (over-generalizing?) about here, but in the late 1940s and early 1950s, when I spent a lot of time hanging around the Santa Fe and Southern Pacific in California, every agent, even at small stations, had a current copy of the ORER and used it. I well remember the agent at Oceanside walking the yard every morning, clip board in hand, and consulting the ORER in his office, if he needed to, regarding any of the cars in the yard, especially cars in assigned service (e.g. U.S. Navy ammunition cars) which had to be returned to their point of origin.
Any agent I ever talked from the pre-1960 period was entirely familiar with ORERs and worked with them daily. I asked one if he saved any copies, and he said he was always happy when a new one arrived, as the previous one would be so worn and tattered by then.
Russ was perhaps stating the situation in the 1970s, by which time many smaller agencies were closed on most railroads, and as the ORER print run fell, prices may have risen in response, making the ORER copy an expensive item. It did not seem to be so in the 1950s.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Posted by: "Thomas Baker" In interviews I have had with the operators of grain elevators on the old Chicago Great Western in Minnesota, I walked away with the impression that the grain elevators would have been happy with any clean car they could obtain, double-sheathed or not. One former grain elevator operator told me that much seemed dependent on how friendly one was with the conductor of the train. If the conductor was favorable, a clean car showed up from somewhere as soon as possible. If not, well, one waited. Perhaps this man was just spouting his resentment at his bad luck or fact.
=======================

That statement seems rather curious and provokes me to ask a few questions. How did the conductor know which car was really clean ? How many conductors opened box car doors so that they could pick a clean car for the friendly elevator operator ? When he was being paid on mileage, that was on his own time.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Ljack70117@...
 

Hey guys I was there. A clerk on The UN PAC at Salina Ks and Topeka Ks from 1948 to July 1951. I would come on duty at 12:01 AM and look at the spike. All the agents with grain elevators in there towns had sent orders to the agent in Salina for what ever box cars his elevators operators said they needed. The Salina agent's clerk had sent copies of these orders to the Chief Yard clerk. He stuck them on the spike. (Which was a heavy base with a spike sticking straight up.) All messages of information was put on it. The footboard yard master who was the engine forman on the yard lead, would look at the spike and make notes how many and where to send the box cars. I would be looking over his shoulder and making my own list. Then we would talk about where we would find them. Find them I did. We did not open any doors. Some were mty grain cars at one of the flour mills. Some were out at SME storage elevator, a few up town at various places and a lot of them in one of the yard tracks. Some of them in the consists of 155 which would be arriving about 4/5 AM from the east. We also used Ballast cars that had tops installed on them. Early form of covered hoppers.
Let say we needed 71 for the orders, If we had any extras we would put them into one of the yard tracks and save them for tomorrow. We knew we would need them.
When the conductor of the local arrived at each station. No agent or elevator operator has to kiss anyones B** for cars. A consist of the train had preceded it by several hours and every one knew what he had. First order was spotted at station one. Next town got theirs and so on taking each order from the front of the train. The conductor did not look into any of the cars. They were delivered first out on the train.
The only arguments I saw was between various men over stay away from My girl friend.
The UN Pac was organized. Maybe that is why it is around. BIG Grin
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Boca Raton FL
ljack70117@comcast.net
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left

On Aug 31, 2007, at 2:59 PM, Malcolm Laughlin wrote:

Posted by: "Thomas Baker" In interviews I have had with the operators of grain elevators on the old Chicago Great Western in Minnesota, I walked away with the impression that the grain elevators would have been happy with any clean car they could obtain, double-sheathed or not. One former grain elevator operator told me that much seemed dependent on how friendly one was with the conductor of the train. If the conductor was favorable, a clean car showed up from somewhere as soon as possible. If not, well, one waited. Perhaps this man was just spouting his resentment at his bad luck or fact.
=======================

That statement seems rather curious and provokes me to ask a few questions. How did the conductor know which car was really clean ? How many conductors opened box car doors so that they could pick a clean car for the friendly elevator operator ? When he was being paid on mileage, that was on his own time.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478





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"Russ Strodtz <borneo@...>
 

Richard,

I have no problem with how the AT&SF and SP spent their money. The
CB&Q did not spend their's supplying Agencies with ORER's and Official
Guides that could only be considered a luxury.

I ask you this: Did they have locks on all telephones that could connect
with an outside line? Did they have pay toliets in Depots?

The CB&Q liked to have a retained surplus each year. During the Depression
they continued to pay regular dividends and kept the GN and NP out of
bankruptcy.

Enough about car distribution. If you ain't done it you don't understand it.
Yes, its all fine and good to look at consists for whatever purpose but the
ORER is not going to tell you why the empty cars are going where they are
going.

One more item to note: Yes, the ORER was, in effect, a Tariff Document.
But, if you look closely the only part that is a Tariff Document is the Railroad's
listings. If you look closely there is a page in between the listings and all the
editorial stuff at the end that clearly states that fact.

Russ Strodtz