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Seaboard 1932 ARA box cars
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Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Since my e-mail last week attempting to identify some freight cars in a 1945 photo of Vancouver, I've been attempting to match appropriate models. The Seaboard 1932 design cars were apparently once offered by F&C and by Sunshine, but my reading of the various lists available indicates that both are no longer in production. So I started thinking about a kitbash.
After considering what might be done with a red caboose PRR X29, I struck me that the car bore some resemblance to the X28 cars after the half door was removed. Then I remembered that the F&C X28 model lacks the quirky retro fit side panels, and thought it might be a good starting point? Both the Seaboard car and the F&C model are ten panel sides (or is that 5/5?). According to Ted Culotta's excellent The American Railway Association Standard Box Car of 1932 book, the Seaboard cars were 9'4" inside height. The one X28b drawing I've looked at puts the interior height at 9' 3 1/4. I have not been able to do a match of the dimensions for the car ends. And of course the extra rivets on the F&C PRR model would have to be removed. I'm thinking if one were to add sill tabs and a new floor/underframe, it might come very close indeed. But since I've only a passing knowledge of both cars, I thought I'd ask for input here first. Comments appreciated. |
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gn3397 <heninger@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
Mr. Kirkham, I would save yourself a lot of hassle and send a check to Mr. Lofton. My perusal of Mr. Hayes' All-Time Sunshine Kit List (updated 3/11/07) has the following kits listed: 21.12 SAL 1932 ARA boxcar "Orange Blossom Special" decals DISCONTINUED 21.13 SAL 1932 ARA boxcar "Route of Courteous Service" decals 21.14 SAL 1932 ARA boxcar "Silver Comet" decals The above kits are $25.00 each. 21.27 SAL 1932 ARA boxcar "Silver Meteor" decals 21.28 SAL 1932 ARA boxcar "Robert E. Lee" decals The above kits are $28.00 each. If you really want the Orange Blossom Special scheme, use the Speedwitch Media set for these cars. Or, just use the Speedwitch set to letter any of the cars, it is a beautiful set of decals. Sincerely, Robert D. Heninger Stanley, ND |
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Don Worthy
I am, also, interested in these cars. Where do I order them from?? Is there an email address or mail address that I didn't see?
Thanks very much Don Worthy Ivey, Ga. gn3397 <heninger@...> wrote: --- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote: Mr. Kirkham, I would save yourself a lot of hassle and send a check to Mr. Lofton. My perusal of Mr. Hayes' All-Time Sunshine Kit List (updated 3/11/07) has the following kits listed: 21.12 SAL 1932 ARA boxcar "Orange Blossom Special" decals DISCONTINUED 21.13 SAL 1932 ARA boxcar "Route of Courteous Service" decals 21.14 SAL 1932 ARA boxcar "Silver Comet" decals The above kits are $25.00 each. 21.27 SAL 1932 ARA boxcar "Silver Meteor" decals 21.28 SAL 1932 ARA boxcar "Robert E. Lee" decals The above kits are $28.00 each. If you really want the Orange Blossom Special scheme, use the Speedwitch Media set for these cars. Or, just use the Speedwitch set to letter any of the cars, it is a beautiful set of decals. Sincerely, Robert D. Heninger Stanley, ND --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. |
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Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
I'm glad it gave you a laugh! For me, I'm wondering why I can't read well enough to have spotted the info when I looked at the list. I went to the trouble of down-loading it and sorting it alphabetically as well..... Oh well. Now that I know the Sunshine car exists, I suppose I'll have to make the order from Sunshine. It'll be a few weeks/couple of months before I decide what and how much, and I'll make sure to include you to fill out the "six". May have to acquire some additional tank cars, so I guess its not all bad.
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F & C is sooo much easier to deal with that a little kit bashing might have been easier. But no takers on that idea so far.... Rob ----- Original Message -----
From: "gn3397" <heninger@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:17 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Seaboard 1932 ARA box cars --- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:Mr. Kirkham, |
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Paul Lyons
Rob,
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Even with the Sunshine kit you will have to do some scratch building if you want it right. The Sunshine Seaboard kit underframe has the wrong truck spacing. Paul Lyons Laguna Niguel, CA -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 5:51 am Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Seaboard 1932 ARA box cars I'm glad it gave you a laugh! For me, I'm wondering why I can't read well enough to have spotted the info when I looked at the list. I went to the trouble of down-loading it and sorting it alphabetically as well..... Oh well. Now that I know the Sunshine car exists, I suppose I'll have to make the order from Sunshine. It'll be a few weeks/couple of months before I decide what and how much, and I'll make sure to include you to fill out the "six". May have to acquire some additional tank cars, so I guess its not all bad. F & C is sooo much easier to deal with that a little kit bashing might have been easier. But no takers on that idea so far.... Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "gn3397" <heninger@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:17 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Seaboard 1932 ARA box cars --- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:Mr. Kirkham, ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com |
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SUVCWORR@...
F&C still makes the PRR X35 which is the lone 1932 ARA boxcar in the Pennsy's fleet.? It has an IH of 9'4" so it may be a better starting point for your project.
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Rich Orr -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 12:24 am Subject: [STMFC] Seaboard 1932 ARA box cars Since my e-mail last week attempting to identify some freight cars in a 1945 photo of Vancouver, I've been attempting to match appropriate models. The Seaboard 1932 design cars were apparently once offered by F&C and by Sunshine, but my reading of the various lists available indicates that both are no longer in production. So I started thinking about a kitbash. After considering what might be done with a red caboose PRR X29, I struck me that the car bore some resemblance to the X28 cars after the half door was removed. Then I remembered that the F&C X28 model lacks the quirky retro fit side panels, and thought it might be a good starting point? Both the Seaboard car and the F&C model are ten panel sides (or is that 5/5?). According to Ted Culotta's excellent The American Railway Association Standard Box Car of 1932 book, the Seaboard cars were 9'4" inside height. The one X28b drawing I've looked at puts the interior height at 9' 3 1/4. I have not been able to do a match of the dimensions for the car ends. And of course the extra rivets on the F&C PRR model would have to be removed. I'm thinking if one were to add sill tabs and a new floor/underframe, it might come very close indeed. But since I've only a passing knowledge of both cars, I thought I'd ask for input here first. Comments appreciated. Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com |
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Ed Hawkins
On Sep 5, 2007, at 7:11 AM, Don Worthy wrote:
I am, also, interested in these cars. Where do I order them from?? IsSTMFC, If anyone is interested in purchasing any Sunshine 1932 ARA box cars, I have few extras (21.1 MP, 21.6 CRR, and 21.21 WM), plus some other urethane kits (many of which are out of production). Contact me OFF LIST at hawk0621@... and I will furnish you a listing. No waiting for 6 months! Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Oops, sorry about that. While my last message may read as response to Robert D. Heninger's e-mail, it actually was supposed to be an off line response to another e-mail I received from someone else. Not sure how I messed that up - but sorry for any misunderstanding and wasting band width.
Rob Kirkham |
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Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Thanks Paul and Rich for your useful comments on the Sunshine Seaboard '32 model and the F&C X35 model.
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I looked at the X35 drawing and see it has the more conventional 30' 8 1/2" truck centres as well. The question this brings to mind is whether the side sill tabs at the bolsters on either model will look out of place if one models correct truck spacing? I assume on the prototype the tabs would be a little different on cars with the longer spacing than on the more conventional design, although confess I have trouble seeing it in photos? Is it true? I suspect that at 3" variance at each end, it is too subtle to notice in most cases (not that I am inviting a debate on what degree of error is too subtle to notice). If I was to go the kitbash route and not order the Sunshine kit, the flat kit nature of the F&C X35 kit appeals to me for modelling purposes. Borrowing the sides from the X35 and mating them to the X28 seems to have some potential. I think the F&C X28 roof is correct for the model? I wonder if the X28 ends beneath the roof lip are appreciably different in height than the X35 sides? Does anyone have an X35 they could measure? I have an X28 waiting for correct side panels on the bench that I can measure for comparison's sake. Rob Kirkham ----- Original Message -----
From: <SUVCWORR@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Seaboard 1932 ARA box cars
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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Apologies for the delay in getting to this - I've been on my two
weeks of active duty for the Navy and have been standing 12-hour daily watches and have not had time to address questions. Rob, I think you need to pause and take a deep breath, as you're getting confused between this SAL 1932 ARA boxcar and the 1923 ARA/Class X29 boxcars, which superficially appear similar but are definitely NOT the same. Let's clarify some issues: - The Red Caboose PRR Class X29/1923 ARA boxcar or F&C Class X28A as a starting point: STOP NOW. This is the same mistake that Jim Six made in his article in the January 2003 issue of Model RailroaDING. The Funaro kit will give you a close match to IH, but the biggest discrepancies are the side rivet patterns. These source kits have two rows of rivets at the side seams, which is completely incorrect for any 1932 ARA boxcar prototype. YOU CANNOT SIMPLY ADD SIDE SILL TABS TO THESE MODELS. - Striker-to-kingpin distance: I don't have my copy of Ted's book with me to confirm this - the postings here that are confusing is the inference that the SAL cars had the earlier 5 ft truck spacing, of which I'm very skeptical - specifically, what is the defect of the Sunshine kit? One of the hallmarks of the 1932 ARA underframe design was the 5 ft 6 truck spacing. We need someone to confirm what the SAL cars had before we come up with a underframe modeling plan. FWIW, Bob Hundman did drawings of these SAL boxcars in MM. I'm obviously away from my library and can't narrow down the results from the online magazine index - they appeared in one of these three issues of Mainline Modeler: October 1992 November 1992 January 1993 Additonally, Pat O'Boyle's "Seaboard Box Car Lettering - Their 1932 ARA Variation" provides additional photos. See the October 1997 issue of Mainline Modeler. Rob wrote: "I suspect that at 3" variance at each end, it is too subtle to notice in most cases (not that I am inviting a debate on what degree of error is too subtle to notice)." The spacing variance would actually be 6 in, and that is definitely noticeable. "If I was to go the kitbash route and not order the Sunshine kit, the flat kit nature of the F&C X35 kit appeals to me for modelling purposes. Borrowing the sides from the X35 and mating them to the X28 seems to have some potential. I think the F&C X28 roof is correct for the model? I wonder if the X28 ends beneath the roof lip are appreciably different in height than the X35 sides? Does anyone have an X35 they could measure? I have an X28 waiting for correct side panels on the bench that I can measure for comparison's sake." Using the F&C PRR Class X35 (or one of their other 9 ft 4 in IH ex- Yankee Clipper Models 1932 ARA boxcar models) as a starting point is an outstanding idea, but not in the way you propose. Cutting up the $30 F&C X28A is a non-starter, especially when you can get the roof and ends from other sources. Stan Rydarowicz offers a Pullman resin roof that can be used for this car; for the ends, you can bash them by cutting them from two Red Caboose or Train-Miniature X29 bodies and splicing them to make taller ends. I've got to go back on watch. More to follow later. Ben Hom |
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al_brown03
--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:
Ted's book and the MM articles are clear that the standard striker-to- kingpin distance was 5'6", and I don't find mention of anyone deviating. (There was great variation in ends and roofs, which are discussed extensively.) Photos of the SAL cars look like anyone else's in this respect. FWIW, SCL equipment diagrams published in Lines South, 6/84, also quote this distance as 5'6". I don't have a prototype handy to measure :-). The expert on these cars is of course Ted, not I. Confusion may arise because some of the SAL's older single-sheathed cars had the "ore-car" 5' spacing (e.g. the GF&A cars), although others had 5'6" (e.g. class B-5). I agree with Ben that the difference is visible: a 5' spacing brings the wheel tread even with the car end, while at 5'6" it's 6" in from the end. Doesn't sound like much, but sight down from the car end and the wheel's either right there, or offset inwards. Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. |
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Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
If you can assist Ben, that's great. Thanks - whenever your time allows.
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Since my suggestions are potentially making a mess of things for anyone wanting to know about these cars, I thought I'd just add a little bit of explanation from Ted Culotta's book, p.195: "In 1934, Pullman-Standard constructed 1000 boxcars built to the 1932 ARA design for the Seaboard. ...They incorporated flat steel riveted ends and 11 panel "lap seam" roofs that were reminiscent of those on the tentative ARA design of 1923, the most notable incarnations of which were the Pennsylvania Railroad's X29 class and Baltimore and Ohio's M-26 class. The roof consisted of 0.09" thick steel sheets riveted together in an overlapping fashion. The overlaps faced the centre of the car, with the end sheets overlapping the second sheets, ... The ends were comprised of two flat steel sheets ... These ends sheets were supported by three U-section pressed steel posts ... secured by rivets." and: However the truck centres were spaced at a distance of 31' - 2 3/4", approximately six inches greater than the 30'-8 1/2" between truck centres on the majority of the 1932 ARA cars. And at p.197, speaking of the next series of 1932 ARA design cars: Like the first 1000 cars, this group used truck centres spaced at a distance of 31' - 2 3/4". Sooooo, For anyone trying to model the roof, I guess "reminiscent" is the key word, and the X29/X28 roofs will have differences I haven't picked out from on-line photos. I'm going to look around for good photos of both. As for the spacing between truck centres (the quotes above), that is a different measurement than the distance from striker to king pin. I assume the two (three if you count each end separately) add up to one measurement for the exterior length of the car. I was unaware of the 5' 6" measurement and had not understood Paul's earlier message as commenting on that. Anyway, I'm not rushing off to mess up good models to make a bad one, just trying to learn about modelling options drawing on kits that are quite unfamiliar to a steam era CPR modeller. This very situation is one of the reasons I so much appreciate a) my local hobby shop - where I can view many models up close, and b) this list which continues to be a real help with questions like mine! Regards, Rob Kirkham ----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 1:42 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Seaboard 1932 ARA box cars Apologies for the delay in getting to this - I've been on my two |
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al_brown03
--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
I'd missed the comments Rob quotes, and thank him for the correction. If the truck centers were 6" farther apart than normal, that indeed suggests the kingpins were 3" closer to the car end. I stand by what I said, though, about the appearance. Check out the side-on photos on pp 200 (both), 203 (top), 204 (top). The wheels are visibly offset in from the car end. Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. |
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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Rob Kirkham wrote:
[From Ted Culotta's 1932 ARA boxcar book:] "'However the truck centres were spaced at a distance of 31' - 2 3/4", approximately six inches greater than the 30'-8 1/2" between truck centres on the majority of the 1932 ARA cars.' And at p.197, speaking of the next series of 1932 ARA design cars: 'Like the first 1000 cars, this group used truck centres spaced at a distance of 31' - 2 3/4".'" Al Brown replied: "If the truck centers were 6" farther apart than normal, that indeed suggests the kingpins were 3" closer to the car end. I stand by what I said, though, about the appearance. Check out the side-on photos on pp 200 (both), 203 (top), 204 (top). The wheels are visibly offset in from the car end." Rob, thanks for confirming the different spacing used on the SAL 1932 ARA boxcars. You will need to relocate the side sill tabs with the bolsters. That's an easy enough fix - just fabricate the new tabs from strip styrene and detail them with two Grandt Line or Tichy rivets. This does bring up another thing to verify - we need to check to see if the Hundman drawings have the correct bolster locations. Ben Hom |
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al_brown03
--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:
3/4", approximately six inches greater than the 30'-8 1/2" between truckThe three MM issues Ben quoted earlier *all* have drawings, and get this: they're all different. 10/92 (MEC): 30' 8 1/2" between kingpins, 41' 8 1/2" over strikers. 11/92 (SAL): 31' 2 3/4" between kingpins, 42' 3 3/4" over strikers. 1/93 (WM): 30' 8 1/2" between kingpins, 42' 8 3/4" over strikers. The WM car has a Duryea underframe. For the MEC and SAL cars, if you subtract the "between kingpin" distance from the "over striker" distance and split the difference between the two ends, the kingpin-to-striker distance is the same within a half-inch. The SAL car is 6 1/4" longer *between* kingpins, I don't know why. Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Don Worthy wrote:
"I am, also, interested in these cars. Where do I order them from?? Is there an email address or mail address that I didn't see?" We seem to answer this question at least once a month and people don't appear to be paying attention. The basics: Sunshine Models has no website or e-mail. Order kits direct from: Sunshine Models PO Box 4997 Springfield MO 65808-4997 Missouri residents add 6.6% sales tax. Add $4.00 shipping per five kits for delivery to US, $15.88 shipping per six kits for delivery to Canada. Ben Hom |
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
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----- Original Message -----
From: benjaminfrank_hom "I am, also, interested in these cars. Where do I order them from?? Is there an email address or mail address that I didn't see?" We seem to answer this question at least once a month and people don't appear to be paying attention. ----- Original Message ----- You may be right Ben, in the general sense, but not in "RTFFAQ" tone of your message. If there is a posting or thread about a car that generates absolutely no interest in me, I am unlikely to remember the particulars of how to go about buying one, even when a completely different car that I DO like - made by the same company - is discussed just two weeks later. Go figger. ----- Original Message ----- Sunshine Models has no website or e-mail. . . ----- Original Message ----- On the other hand, given that we're almost through 2007, people may be just be thinking that this statement has got to be a typo . . . KL |
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Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
I've now had a chance to compare the information discussed here last week with the drawings Ben Hom referred to - these were printed in the November 1992 MM (and copied to me off list by another list member). of course, what I'm about to write goes on the assumption the drawings are correct.
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These are drawn showing the correct 31'-2 3/4" between the trucks and 5'6" from king pin to strikers. The overall length (striker to striker) is shown as 42'-3 3/4". For the width, the measurement from centre line to outer edge of the sheathing on the bolster is 4'-8 3/8", so the width of the car at the sills is about 9'-4 3/4". Divided by 87.08571908, it makes an HO model about 1.295" wide. So how does the Red Caboose X29 measure up in comparison (as a potential donor of parts)? It is about 1.299" wide, which seems pretty close to me. Given its length of 5.680" long, (i.e., about 41'-2 1/2" in HO) and given the length of the Seaboard ARA 1932 boxcar, 41' 2 1/2", it seems that a Red Caboose X29 roof would make a good donor roof for a kitbash model of the Seaboard car; the end a good starting point for a splice job (correct rivet pattern/wrong location for the seam between upper and lower panels); and the sides the only remaining challenge. By the way, according to the Hundman drawings, the Seaboard roofs are the same number of panels and same rivet pattern as the PRRX29 Red Caboose models. In that regard, they are either inaccurate, or Ted's use of the word "reminiscent" is analogous to "alike". FWIW given the obvious choice of using a Sunshine model already on the market and modifying the sill tabs and underframe (if necessary - given the back and forth over dimensions, I confess I'm still not sure about that ......) Rob Kirkham ----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 4:15 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Seaboard 1932 ARA box cars Rob Kirkham wrote: |
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Don Worthy
Hey ya'll, I've just looked at a SAL diagram of the cars in question. It shows 6' 61/2" from truck center to coupler pocket face. I notice that the Over-all length of 41' 3" is measured "over the endsill" of the car. They are measured to different locations. If you could see the drawing, you can see that the numbers won't add up correctly by just using the truch spacing and overall length.
I may try to post this diagram in my folder but, I don't want to get into trouble. Don Worthy Ivey, Ga. benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...> wrote: Apologies for the delay in getting to this - I've been on my two weeks of active duty for the Navy and have been standing 12-hour daily watches and have not had time to address questions. Rob, I think you need to pause and take a deep breath, as you're getting confused between this SAL 1932 ARA boxcar and the 1923 ARA/Class X29 boxcars, which superficially appear similar but are definitely NOT the same. Let's clarify some issues: - The Red Caboose PRR Class X29/1923 ARA boxcar or F&C Class X28A as a starting point: STOP NOW. This is the same mistake that Jim Six made in his article in the January 2003 issue of Model RailroaDING. The Funaro kit will give you a close match to IH, but the biggest discrepancies are the side rivet patterns. These source kits have two rows of rivets at the side seams, which is completely incorrect for any 1932 ARA boxcar prototype. YOU CANNOT SIMPLY ADD SIDE SILL TABS TO THESE MODELS. - Striker-to-kingpin distance: I don't have my copy of Ted's book with me to confirm this - the postings here that are confusing is the inference that the SAL cars had the earlier 5 ft truck spacing, of which I'm very skeptical - specifically, what is the defect of the Sunshine kit? One of the hallmarks of the 1932 ARA underframe design was the 5 ft 6 truck spacing. We need someone to confirm what the SAL cars had before we come up with a underframe modeling plan. FWIW, Bob Hundman did drawings of these SAL boxcars in MM. I'm obviously away from my library and can't narrow down the results from the online magazine index - they appeared in one of these three issues of Mainline Modeler: October 1992 November 1992 January 1993 Additonally, Pat O'Boyle's "Seaboard Box Car Lettering - Their 1932 ARA Variation" provides additional photos. See the October 1997 issue of Mainline Modeler. Rob wrote: "I suspect that at 3" variance at each end, it is too subtle to notice in most cases (not that I am inviting a debate on what degree of error is too subtle to notice)." The spacing variance would actually be 6 in, and that is definitely noticeable. "If I was to go the kitbash route and not order the Sunshine kit, the flat kit nature of the F&C X35 kit appeals to me for modelling purposes. Borrowing the sides from the X35 and mating them to the X28 seems to have some potential. I think the F&C X28 roof is correct for the model? I wonder if the X28 ends beneath the roof lip are appreciably different in height than the X35 sides? Does anyone have an X35 they could measure? I have an X28 waiting for correct side panels on the bench that I can measure for comparison's sake." Using the F&C PRR Class X35 (or one of their other 9 ft 4 in IH ex- Yankee Clipper Models 1932 ARA boxcar models) as a starting point is an outstanding idea, but not in the way you propose. Cutting up the $30 F&C X28A is a non-starter, especially when you can get the roof and ends from other sources. Stan Rydarowicz offers a Pullman resin roof that can be used for this car; for the ends, you can bash them by cutting them from two Red Caboose or Train-Miniature X29 bodies and splicing them to make taller ends. I've got to go back on watch. More to follow later. Ben Hom --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! |
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Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Don, I'm not sure which drawings you are referring to, but the Mainline Modeller drawings from Nov. 92, p.42-43 show the kingpin to kingpin distance as 31'-2 3/4" (374.75 inches) and the striker to striker distance at 42'-3 3/4" (507.75 inches). The difference divided by two comes to 5' 6.5".
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Rob Kirkham ----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Worthy" <don_worthy@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Seaboard 1932 ARA box cars Hey ya'll, I've just looked at a SAL diagram of the cars in question. It shows 6' 61/2" from truck center to coupler pocket face. I notice that the Over-all length of 41' 3" is measured "over the endsill" of the car. They are measured to different locations. If you could see the drawing, you can see that the numbers won't add up correctly by just using the truch spacing and overall length. |
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