K Brakes parts on CNR 1929/30 boxcars


Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I'm working on a Kaslo CNR 1929 box car kit, and want to do it with a K brake system. I have received drawings and photos to do the basic plumbing etc, but both drawings and photos show some other parts hanging beneath these cars, and I am hoping to make some sense of them and figure out what is modelable.

The CPHA documents site contains a drawing of (I think) these cars - not very legible, but better than nothing. If you go to <http://www.cpsig.ca/cpdocs/login.asp> , and search for CN in "other railways" you'll find a drawing titled CN Steel Box General Arrangement, and it is drawing number D-4649. Also, Stafford Swain's article in Railmodel Journal, June 1994, contains a photo at the top of p.43 that shows these structures in silouette. The drawing and photos of these cars show the typical K brake cylinder parts but also a separate pair of structures I can't interpret easily. On the drawing, one of the parts is mounted on the underside of the car such that when you look at the B side elevation of the car, it is in line with the first verticle Z brace between the door post and B end. The other more prominant part is also mounted to the underframe, but closer to the door post and brake cylinder. It has an approximately triangular shape.

I can guess these parts are some sort of hanger system - or perhaps even a sheave system, but would like to be able to make sense of it well enough to approximate it on my models.

Any help appreciated....


Rob Kirkham


Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I have received drawings and photos to do the basic plumbing
etc, but both drawings and photos show some other parts hanging beneath
these cars, and I am hoping to make some sense of them and figure
out what
is modelable.
Rob,

It's an early form of "high power" hand brake gear that I don't have a
name for. The rod from the brake wheel is fastened to a chain that
winds through the mechanism (it's hard to describe exactly how) and
then runs back to the bracket. That essentially rigs it as a two part
line, which requires the wheel be turned twice as much for effect, but
doubles its pulling force. The pointy end of the casting is chained to
the brake cylinder rod clevis. The triangular casting slides up the
incline bar as the chain tightens; the incline of the bar ensures that
it will shake free when the brakes are released and the car moves. At
least, that was the theory.

I'll put a photo of a similar rig on a 1929 built Soo Line car in the
photos area. Sunshine modeled this part in the Soo Line boxcar kits,
but I don't know anywhere else where it can be obtained.

I'd also like to know the trade name for this appliance.

Dennis


Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I look forward to seeing the photo Dennis. Thanks as always for your help!

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:53 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: K Brakes parts on CNR 1929/30 boxcars


--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I have received drawings and photos to do the basic plumbing
etc, but both drawings and photos show some other parts hanging beneath
these cars, and I am hoping to make some sense of them and figure
out what
is modelable.
Rob,

It's an early form of "high power" hand brake gear that I don't have a
name for. The rod from the brake wheel is fastened to a chain that
winds through the mechanism (it's hard to describe exactly how) and
then runs back to the bracket. That essentially rigs it as a two part
line, which requires the wheel be turned twice as much for effect, but
doubles its pulling force. The pointy end of the casting is chained to
the brake cylinder rod clevis. The triangular casting slides up the
incline bar as the chain tightens; the incline of the bar ensures that
it will shake free when the brakes are released and the car moves. At
least, that was the theory.

I'll put a photo of a similar rig on a 1929 built Soo Line car in the
photos area. Sunshine modeled this part in the Soo Line boxcar kits,
but I don't know anywhere else where it can be obtained.

I'd also like to know the trade name for this appliance.

Dennis





Yahoo! Groups Links





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Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I look forward to seeing the photo Dennis. Thanks as always for
your help!

Rob Kirkham
The photo is now available, view it at:

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/browse/fbbf

I found a second photo taken under the car (Soo 41164 in the
collection of the Illinois Railway Museum). I'll put it in the same
folder when I get home tonight.

Dennis


Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Norwest (http://www.promodelbuilders.com/norwest) offers a resin kit of a
1920s Canadian tank car that includes a very similar mechanism .



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon


proto48er
 

Many thanks for the photo, Dennis! I am getting ready to build
the "O" scale Sylvan Models kit of this car, and the info is timely.

Incidentally, the same 2:1 "power" handbrake arrangement was under M-
K-T #95500-95999 (MtVernon - 1925) and M-K-T #96000-96499 (M-K-T -
1926) also. In the car I was under, the rectangular rod on which the
chain-wrapped block slides was horizontal, not inclined like in your
photo or in the CN drawing referenced.

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@> wrote:

I look forward to seeing the photo Dennis. Thanks as always for
your help!

Rob Kirkham
The photo is now available, view it at:

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/browse/fbbf

I found a second photo taken under the car (Soo 41164 in the
collection of the Illinois Railway Museum). I'll put it in the same
folder when I get home tonight.

Dennis


Charles Hladik
 

Dennis,
The Sylvan sight is _http://isp.ca/sylvan/_ (http://isp.ca/sylvan/) .
Chuck Hladik



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "proto48er" <atkott@...> wrote:

Many thanks for the photo, Dennis! I am getting ready to build
the "O" scale Sylvan Models kit of this car, and the info is timely.
The second image is now available at:

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/browse/fbbf

It gives a little better perspective as to how the parts fit together.

AT, what car did Sylvan do? Could you give us a link to a web site or
at least an image?

Thanks,

Dennis


Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Funaro & Camerlengo, http://www.fandckits.com <http://www.fandckits.com/> ,
also makes a model of this boxcar. They call it a 1924-25 boxcar on their
website and on the box but the included history starts out 'In the late
1920s.' and refers to orders from 1929 & 1930.



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon


Tony Thompson
 

Chuck Hladik wrote:
The Sylvan sight is . . .
And quite a sight it is, too <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks again Dennis, the photos are a tremendous aid. I think I'll try to sketch out a plan version, and work from that. I suppose no one offers a separate detail part for this particular brake rig so will have to do something creative. Not sure what that will be yet.

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...>


Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

That's kind of amusing, Jim. I didn't know there were three models on the market. I think there may be an earlier 1920's era version of cars like these - have not studied the distinguishing points.

I built a Sylvan version of the 1929/30 car a couple of weeks ago (with AB brakes), then did this Kaslo car. I wonder whether I should do an F&C and fill out the roster with more variants..... That always seems like a recipe for reducing realism to me, as the differences in models should be explainable. At this point, they are subtle enough however that I'm not sure way one could pick a Kaslo from a Sylvan car unless they studied the two models closely.

I notice that the upper door stop on the Sylvan car is quite a bit more detailed than that on the Kaslo. Looking at the F&C page, even though they sell a K brake version, their photos do not show a built up model - and do not reveal whether their kit contains the parts to model this complex brake rig. Pity. Does anyone have one of their models who might be able to answer whether the F&C kit includes parts for the K brake rig (beyond the usual Tichy K brake sprue and some wire bits.)

Thanks

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim & Lisa Hayes" <jimandlisa97225@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: K Brakes parts on CNR 1929/30 boxcars


Funaro & Camerlengo, http://www.fandckits.com <http://www.fandckits.com/> ,
also makes a model of this boxcar. They call it a 1924-25 boxcar on their
website and on the box but the included history starts out 'In the late
1920s.' and refers to orders from 1929 & 1930.



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon







Yahoo! Groups Links





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Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

If it is the same mechanism as used on these Katy cars then it is a
Universal brake booster. I included some castings to make this in
the kits for these Katy versions.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(203) 747-0190


WaltGCox@...
 

In a message dated 10/6/2007 1:28:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rdkirkham@... writes:

Does anyone have one of their models who might be able to
answer whether the F&C kit includes parts for the K brake rig (beyond the
usual Tichy K brake sprue and some wire bits.)



Hi Rob, I have one of their kits with the AB brake and it uses a Tichy
sprue, for what that may be worth. The F&C kit does not have a one piece body,
which is why I only have one. Also, the Sylvan kit seems to have a better level
of detail and a one piece body. Walt



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Are those Universal brake booster castings available separately Ted?

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Culotta" <tculotta@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 4:04 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: K Brakes parts on CNR 1929/30 boxcars


If it is the same mechanism as used on these Katy cars then it is a
Universal brake booster. I included some castings to make this in
the kits for these Katy versions.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(203) 747-0190








Yahoo! Groups Links





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Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.2/1052 - Release Date: 10/5/2007 6:53 PM


proto48er
 

Dennis -

Sorry for the delay in responding - I have been occupied and not on
line for several days. Others have already given you the Sylvan
website.

The "O" scale Sylvan car is fairly nicely detailed, with a one piece
sides, ends and roof and a separate floor. No special power
handbrake parts, however. Still, it is very nice.

Curiously, the diagonal side "brace" zees on the model are "upside
down", as they truly are on the CN prototypes! The open part of the
diagonal zees faces upward. On the prototype, it seems that this
would tend to catch and trap water and cause the siding to leak.
(Maybe water up there is all in the solid phase, so no problem, eh?)
I say "upside down" because it seems that they should have the open
part of the zee facing downward, to shed water away from the siding.

If the diagonal zees were "right side up", then the model would be
correct for a series of Frisco cars, and some others. That was why I
bought two of the models! Will try to remove/replace the diagonals
on one car.

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "proto48er" <atkott@> wrote:

Many thanks for the photo, Dennis! I am getting ready to build
the "O" scale Sylvan Models kit of this car, and the info is
timely.

The second image is now available at:

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/browse/fbbf

It gives a little better perspective as to how the parts fit
together.

AT, what car did Sylvan do? Could you give us a link to a web site
or
at least an image?

Thanks,

Dennis